West Hampstead - platforms on the main line?

[adamedwards]

West Hampstead station has 4 platforms, 2 fast, 2 slow. Clearly stopping on the fast lines blocks the East Midlands Trains inter-cities, so doesn't happen.

However, I wonder if there is a way round this:

Upgrade the Down Hendon line which passes behind platform 4 to passenger standards. Add a platform face aka Platform 5. Install crossovers to enable 4 to become a reversible line to be used for stopping trains inbound am and outbound pm. (This would be similar to the way Milton Keynes was modified to enable stopping Pendolini not to block the main line north, but slower speeds given the location.)

Potential uses are then the faster Thameslink trains to St Albans and beyond and the future Corby to London emus. Once HS2 then takes away the Sheffield traffic, one could imagine this being a stopping point for semi fast trains in from Leicester.

Why do this? West Hampstead is a major interchange in north London. Discharghing significant numbers of passengers at this station then could speed up turnround time at St Pancras where there are only 4 platforms for the Midland Main Line. Might that then a way to unlock an additional path on the main line?

 

[hwl]

West Hampstead station has 4 platforms, 2 fast, 2 slow. Clearly stopping on the fast lines blocks the East Midlands Trains inter-cities, so doesn't happen.

However, I wonder if there is a way round this:

Upgrade the Down Hendon line which passes behind platform 4 to passenger standards. Add a platform face aka Platform 5. Install crossovers to enable 4 to become a reversible line to be used for stopping trains inbound am and outbound pm. (This would be similar to the way Milton Keynes was modified to enable stopping Pendolini not to block the main line north, but slower speeds given the location.)

Potential uses are then the faster Thameslink trains to St Albans and beyond and the future Corby to London emus. Once HS2 then takes away the Sheffield traffic, one could imagine this being a stopping point for semi fast trains in from Leicester.

Why do this? West Hampstead is a major interchange in north London. Discharghing significant numbers of passengers at this station then could speed up turnround time at St Pancras where there are only 4 platforms for the Midland Main Line. Might that then a way to unlock an additional path on the main line?

Lots of West Hampstead interchange likely to swap to Farringdon for Crossrail interchange instead of Jubilee as West Hampstead.

 

[PermitToTravel]

There might be less appetite for this now that there almost certainly won't be platforms built on the Chiltern and Metropolitan lines

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Platforms on the Chiltern lines were mooted as a long term aspiration back in the 90s when the first private franchises were agreed. I'm sure you can find documentation of it if you look hard enough. I can't ever see it happening due to the space constraints there and the price of land which would need to be purchased. It would probably be nice to have an interchange there but the cost to benefit ratio is incredibly low.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Platforms on the Chiltern lines were mooted as a long term aspiration back in the 90s when the first private franchises were agreed. I'm sure you can find documentation of it if you look hard enough. I can't ever see it happening due to the space constraints there and the price of land which would need to be purchased. It would probably be nice to have an interchange there but the cost to benefit ratio is incredibly low.

The "West Hampstead Interchange" is still mentioned as a long term aspiration in the Chiltern Franchise Agreement, along with Ardley Parkway (presumably accessed from M40 J10, or a new J9A); reopening the Great Central through Brackley (Park and Ride on the A43), Rugby (Park and Ride near Catthorpe Interchange) and on to Leicester; and various other projects (Pages 423 to 425 in the PDF of the Franchise Agreement).

 

[louis97]

West Hampstead station has 4 platforms, 2 fast, 2 slow. Clearly stopping on the fast lines blocks the East Midlands Trains inter-cities, so doesn't happen.

It happens twice an hour in each direction off-peak.

 

[jopsuk]

Wouldn't platforms on the Chiltern lines cause timetable issues? Similar with the Met, unless you go for a firestorm of taking out Finchley Road as a stop

 

[swt_passenger]

The "West Hampstead Interchange" is still mentioned as a long term aspiration in the Chiltern Franchise Agreement, along with Ardley Parkway (presumably accessed from M40 J10, or a new J9A); reopening the Great Central through Brackley (Park and Ride on the A43), Rugby (Park and Ride near Catthorpe Interchange) and on to Leicester; and various other projects (Pages 423 to 425 in the PDF of the Franchise Agreement).

That was the original 'long menu' of possible options. What they actually have done in the Evergreen 1- 3 programmes is what they and DfT agreed to do to meet the franchise requirements, so those aspirations are really no longer valid. After the early section of schedule 14 referring to those options (in part 2) there are references (in part 4) to other agreed options , and these are separate documents that cease to mention some of the more 'off patch' options.

 

[Class 170101]

Are there anymore stages to Evergreen? Something tells me the franchise itself doesn't finish for another 6 years or so.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Try building anything railway wise around West Hampstead these days - any old "underused" ex rail areas is now being intensively developed. Any changes possible have long gone ...

 

[westcoaster]

Try building anything railway wise around West Hampstead these days - any old "underused" ex rail areas is now being intensively developed. Any changes possible have long gone ...

I always wondered whether it would be possible to put a south facing Bay in behind p1 extending along the wall towards Belize tunnel, could be an overground platform for services towards barking, or the TL terminators from sevenoaks.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are there anymore stages to Evergreen? Something tells me the franchise itself doesn't finish for another 6 years or so.

I don't think there's anything major to be done now.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I always wondered whether it would be possible to put a south facing Bay in behind p1 extending along the wall towards Belize tunnel, could be an overground platform for services towards barking, or the TL terminators from sevenoaks.

Before platform lengthenings - there was indeed space left for the bay platform you mention , as the GOB shuttle used to be Kentish Town to Barking via a curve towards Junction Road Junction (now lost under Murphy's Yard) - the diversion to Gospel Oak became permenant.

Historically there were St Pancras to Tilbury boat trains which went this way - up until the 1960's I believe.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Are there anymore stages to Evergreen? Something tells me the franchise itself doesn't finish for another 6 years or so.

Oxford (Evergreen 3 Phase 2) was the last major project Chiltern were required to do to confirm the full 20 year franchise term, and with lead times being what they are it's unlikely they'll do anything major during the current franchise as there would be little time left to get any return on the investment.

 

[swt_passenger]

Oxford (Evergreen 3 Phase 2) was the last major project Chiltern were required to do to confirm the full 20 year franchise term, and with lead times being what they are it's unlikely they'll do anything major during the current franchise as there would be little time left to get any return on the investment.

The only short term improvements I can think might easily happen are extending more services to Snow Hill, but that hardly justifies the Evergreen style treatment.

 

[LewFinnis]

More to Snow Hill will become possible when the platform taken by the Metro is restored to railway use. I seem to recollect that it is in Chiltern's plans.

 

[AM9]

More to Snow Hill will become possible when the platform taken by the Metro is restored to railway use. I seem to recollect that it is in Chiltern's plans.

How did this post get taken over by Chilterns Birmingham services discussion?

 

[Supercoss]

Keep up at the back! no new platform 5 (yet) but Hendon lines to be wired throughout and upgraded for 110mph thus allowing parallel down slow to down fast and down fast to down Hendon junction moves at WH South to allow faster services to overtake services calling at new Brent Cross Cricklewood station, current wired area just between WH South and Cricklewood South.
Watch out for some Hendon Chord line passenger moves also on Sundays in the new year

 

[swt_passenger]

How did this post get taken over by Chilterns Birmingham services discussion?

Because someone raised the fact that a "West Hampstead interchange" was still in the franchise agreement, and we then diverged onto why the franchise agreement list of projects has been overtaken by events, and at this stage only minor changes will probably happen...

 

[mr_jrt]

Now THIS is a "West Hampstead Interchange" worthy of the moniker...

(disclaimer: an old thought experiment of mine from years back)

 

[swt class 450]

It would be brilliant if platforms were built on the Chiltern Railways lines and Metropolitan lines at West Hampstead. It could become a very useful major interchange station for changing between - Chiltern Railways / East Midlands Trains / Jubilee Line / London Overground / Metropolitan Line / Thameslink - services. Unfortunately i cant see this happening any time soon.

 

[swt_passenger]

It would be brilliant if platforms were built on the Chiltern Railways lines and Metropolitan lines at West Hampstead.

AIUI the site was never actually wide enough to include both Chiltern and Metropolitan platforms without significant local demolition. A complete non-starter.

 

[mr_jrt]

AIUI the site was never actually wide enough to include both Chiltern and Metropolitan platforms without significant local demolition. A complete non-starter.

I wouldn't say that, but I guess it wholly depends on your definition of "significant", I guess.

The main obstacle is the road bridge, as the supports almost certainly preclude the required track alignments, but in the most general case, as shown on my rough diagram, it's conceivable that with a conversion to three island platforms only one track would be aligned where there isn't currently one under the bridge. So worst case the bridge and associated deck would most likely require reconstruction, but possibly a support structure could be relocated a few metres north. The northern end would nevertheless require digging out to add the new spans. So maybe not wholesale demolition, but I think it likely as it would be much easier.

Property-wise, a couple of light industrial properties on the northern edge of the site and an access road are about it. The (relatively recentish?) construction of tall buildings on the western side of the road between the NLL and Met tracks make things a bit more complicated, but something should be achievable.

Alternatively, bury the Chiltern lines in a new tunnel and then there's plenty of room for the additional Met platform within the existing footprint

 

[Class 170101]

Alternatively, bury the Chiltern lines in a new tunnel and then there's plenty of room for the additional Met platform within the existing footprint

Chiltern would have a steep exit out of the tunnel beyond West Hampstead towards Neasden and almost certainly would need to stay in tunnel and not exit where it does now south of Finchley Road.

Currently Chiltern, Metropolitan and Jubilee Lines pass over the North London Line so it would become a 'three level' station.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Currently Chiltern, Metropolitan and Jubilee Lines pass over the North London Line so it would become a 'three level' station.

Unless it has changed overnight - "under" the NLR .......the answer really is to improve the decent but cramped JLE station - the doubling back from Finchley Road Met is a matterof 3 to 4 mins. Done it many times over the last 35 years...

 

[Class 170101]

Currently Chiltern, Metropolitan and Jubilee Lines pass over the North London Line so it would become a 'three level' station.

Unless it has changed overnight - "under" the NLR .......the answer really is to improve the decent but cramped JLE station - the doubling back from Finchley Road Met is a matterof 3 to 4 mins. Done it many times over the last 35 years...

Sorry mis-read map. Indeed Chiltern bottom level, NLL middle and Met/Jubilee on top level.

 

[Abpj17]

It happens twice an hour in each direction off-peak.

OP - trains do stop on the fast. Some trains stop on the fast platforms - particularly late at night when EMT have stopped running. Not sure why any further infrastructure changes would be required?

Trains particularly don’t stop at West Hampstead in the rush hour (or at least on the semi-fast Bedford services) arguably because of the congestion. WH has got easier with the additional entrance tho and the wider doors on the 700.