West Highland 37s - THE END?

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86242

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Waiting in some far corner of the country for a 37
http://www.ews-railway.co.uk/cmsystem/news_article.asp?guid={48E2C98B-9674-4DE1-9E58-36DD718D3B42}

Class 67 locomotives will be used between Edinburgh and Aberdeen/Inverness. While the contract will initially see class 37 locomotives used between Edinburgh and Fort William, First ScotRail, EWS and Network Rail are developing plans to introduce regular haulage with class 67 locomotives during the early stages of the contract.
:cry:
 
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evil_hippo

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Oh, well, you can't run a railway on sentiment. Allthough I'll miss them at least you'll be able to sleep when you're directly in front of the locomotive.
 

Julian G

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Yorkie will be very shocked to hear about this!


WHAT?!

Enthusiasts let set fire to them ([ljg;klggf;f) disgusting Skipful (disgusting, rubbish) Skips
 

yorkie

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evil_hippo said:
Oh, well, you can't run a railway on sentiment. Allthough I'll miss them at least you'll be able to sleep when you're directly in front of the locomotive.
No, you can't, but why do we need to?

Here are good reasons, nothing to do with sentiment, why 37s are more suitable than 67s for the route.

1. Use less fuel

2. Subject to fewer speed restrictions

3. No need to re-train drivers

4. Cause less track damage

5. Lower access charges

But oh no, EWS have to cut their loco fleet and it would be an embarrasment for them to get rid of 67s so soon after ordering them, so they have to try their hardest to make the Fort William sleeper financially unviable.

Who is going to pay the increased track access charges? Who is going to pay the increased fuel costs?

Let me guess, the PASSENGER! (ultimately). So, expect fare rises to travel on the 67s.
 

yorkie

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1288gaje said:
Yorkie will be very shocked to hear about this!


WHAT?!

Enthusiasts let set fire to them ([ljg;klggf;f) disgusting Skipful (disgusting, rubbish) Skips
Please think before you post.

But no, I'm not shocked. EWS were expected to win the contract, and we all know what that Canadian company are up to. We all know how much they hate British locos. So, no I am not shocked.

However, fortunately there are many obstacles they must overcome so you'll be sure that 37 haulage will continue for a few months and we will get a few weeks notice before the end.

Fingers crossed that we can wait until Summer to have our 37 trips, but if the end is sooner than that we'll have to bring them forward. (Anyone interested who is not already on the list PM me)
 

Julian G

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yorkie said:
1288gaje said:
Plan A , Send 66s overseas, store the 67s and send them to other countries, reinstate 37,47,56,58, take 37,56,58 from Europe back into UK , reintstate the 92s that Eurostar had dumped
Is that info from 00Wright by any chance?

It sounds too good to be true. I'll believe it when I see it.
i made it up ;)
when I was having a discussion with Jonathan
' Put all 30 cl67s in Immingham, remove all the proper traction, pour (plastic=removal) oil on the locos , and then light a matchstick and throw it at 67029 <D and then run away from Immingham'
 

ChristopherJ

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Another problem which the 67s face is that they can't climb hills that well, so they'll have a job and a half trying to negotiate the West Highland Line!
 

bunnahabhain

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Trouble is, Class 37's are getting a bit unreliable, and the fleet is all but obsolete now, they're getting too old to continue front line service now.
 

Jim

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Jamie C. Steel said:
Trouble is, Class 37's are getting a bit unreliable, and the fleet is all but obsolete now, they're getting too old to continue front line service now.
Can't remember when the last time 1 Failed on the Valleys
 

Techniquest

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Think it did happen, but it's extremely rare. It's not like they're failing all the time. Indeed, they're more reliable than 90% of ATF's whole fleet usually!
 
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Im not a big fan of EWS antics, Its not that they dislike British Locos yorkie, I think its more to have a common pool of Locos. I like the 66s but EWS is working them far too intensively, working heavier trains and are becoming quite unrealable.


The 47s, 37s, 33s, 31s, etc were getting old and tired. ALthough to send the 56s and 58s away was a bit premature.
 

heart-of-wessex

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the thing is though, you cant have 37s on there forever, they are indeed getting old, remember noting lasts forever, i would expect to have a car and keep it till 2050, nor can you with a 37
 

bunnahabhain

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heart-of-wessex said:
the thing is though, you cant have 37s on there forever, they are indeed getting old, remember noting lasts forever, i would expect to have a car and keep it till 2050, nor can you with a 37

Oh I'd expect they will still be running in 2050, it's just that they'll be on Preserved Lines making a venerable run out once every month or so, hopefully more than the GCR's Class 37 gets, which is twice a year :cry:
 

yorkie

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heart-of-wessex said:
the thing is though, you cant have 37s on there forever, they are indeed getting old, remember noting lasts forever, i would expect to have a car and keep it till 2050, nor can you with a 37
I'm going to be harsh here and please don't take this personally, but that is an irrelevant ramble that doesn't actually address any of the real issues. Sorry.

I could say 67s won't last forever, either. It's not a case of making something last "forever", it's a case of what's viable, what works, what is economical and what is good value for money. And unless a lot of money is spent on upgrading the infrastructure (in particular some weak bridges) then I can't see how 67 haulage can be viable. And if the line is to be upgraded, where does that money come from and how can it be financially justified?
 

Jim

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yorkie said:
And unless a lot of money is spent on upgrading the infrastructure (in particular some weak bridges) then I can't see how 67 haulage can be viable. And if the line is to be upgraded, where does that money come from and how can it be financially justified?

I am sure it is, put the fares up like normal :cry:
 

AlexS

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It's either a toss up between playing with the infrastructure, and playing with the locomotives. As the locomotives are 40 year old hunks of steel, they will have a lot more issues with things like metal corrosion and so on to the point where it's cheaper to buy a new locomotive. The engines and so on can be maintained to a point (but even they will pop eventually), but the bodywork and frames won't last forever. In terms of good financial investment, fixing up infrastructure to take a larger variety of motive power is always going to be preferable than a total overhaul on machines that are going to have at a max maybe 15 years left in them.
 

joy54.gen

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The main problem with the 37s is the high engine hours, I just hope that they won't be able to go to Oban so the 37s can run in Feburary, that's if the 67s have come in by then which i doubt.
 

yorkie

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AlexS said:
It's either a toss up between playing with the infrastructure, and playing with the locomotives. As the locomotives are 40 year old hunks of steel, they will have a lot more issues with things like metal corrosion and so on to the point where it's cheaper to buy a new locomotive. The engines and so on can be maintained to a point (but even they will pop eventually), but the bodywork and frames won't last forever. In terms of good financial investment, fixing up infrastructure to take a larger variety of motive power is always going to be preferable than a total overhaul on machines that are going to have at a max maybe 15 years left in them.
But "new machines" should not mean "locos that were designed for 125mph parcels work, that are totally unsuitable for this job but oh well we've got to find something for them to do".
 

Guinness

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yorkie said:
But "new machines" should not mean "locos that were designed for 125mph parcels work, that are totally unsuitable for this job but oh well we've got to find something for them to do".

The problem is that Royal Mail decided to withdraw all but the WCML Electric Mail. You have to find work for £1.5m Locos, you can't just leave them in a siding to rot. You would have another MML Meridian Fiasco.
 

AlexS

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Exactly. And these kind of trains are the most appropriate work for them, EWS's freight is generally too heavy for them to manage with alone, although they do work some trains. The locomotives are passenger locomotives, the Caledonian Sleeper is a passenger train. Rather than maintain a small fleet of locomotives that aren't going to be able to keep the pace with the adverse weather in Scotland in two or three years, they may as well keep their existing - very reliable - assets in good working order by actually having them working trains instead of sitting about at depots all day. EWS didn't forsee losing the Mail contract, you can't blame them for making the best of a difficult situation for them regarding some very expensive assets.
 

bunnahabhain

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The worst thing that you can do with a Diesel is to leave it in a siding turned off for more than a day. It makes them fairly unreliable, 25265 and 37255 at the GCR are actually the two most reliable Locomotives because they are used every day, or at the least, every other day, so the cabs get heated up, the engine compartment get's heated up, and any dampness get's dried up, so the bodywork and the internal bits dont slowly rot.

Now if you compare that to some other Diesels which rarely work, for example E6003 at the GCR, which hardly ever moves, it required a lot of fixing up for the 2005 Diesel Gala, and is now having the bodywork dealt with at Rothley, which I believe has involved at least one of the cab end roofs being taken completely off the locomotive.

The 67's may have been built for Express Parcels trains, but they're a damn sight better to Joe Public to see a nice modern locomotive at the front of the train, than a grotty Class 37.
 

joy54.gen

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Well I wouldn't call the 67s that reliable, they do fail on the sleeper regularly, previously have caught a 37 vice 67 due to that problem. Although the 37s do also fail it isn't as often as the 67s.
 

AlexS

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You must have been fairly 'unlucky' then, the 67s have a reasonable reliability rate. And at least they have the potential for the improvement, unlike the 37s, which are probably as good as they are going to get.
 

bunnahabhain

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joy54.gen said:
Well I wouldn't call the 67s that reliable, they do fail on the sleeper regularly, previously have caught a 37 vice 67 due to that problem. Although the 37s do also fail it isn't as often as the 67s.

The 37 didnt replace the 67 cause the 37 is better, it replaced it simply because it was in the right place at the right time.


I cant wait till EWS Ship off the 37/4's to Preserved Railways :)
 

joy54.gen

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Thats not the point, the point is that 67s fail do fail on the sleepers, and in my expierence more than 37s. Even my last expierence on the sleeper 2 days ago the 67 on the Inverness portion was having problems and arrived quite late into EDB. The FW portion had shunted and left before the 67 from Inverness even arrived.
 
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