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West London Orbital line and Sutton Tram extension added to Mayor’s Transport Strategy

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JaJaWa

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Two new rail routes have been added to the Mayor of London’s Transport Strategy

Mayor presents bold strategy for the future of London’s transport
28 February 2018
• Mayor’s Transport Strategy will ensure affordable public transport for all, support London’s economic growth, and create a fairer, greener and healthier city

• Continued record investment in improving transport capacity, with new rail lines, more frequent tube services, thousands of clean buses and more accessible transport over the next two decades

• Latest Strategy includes new commitment to a West London Orbital rail line and a specific proposal for the Sutton Tram extension



The Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, has today set out his ambitious plans to improve transport in London over the next 25 years, presenting his Transport Strategy to the London Assembly for consideration before final publication in the coming weeks.



The Mayor’s Transport Strategy will act as the backbone of transport planning across London, helping to deliver Sadiq’s ambition for 80 per cent of trips in London to be made on foot, by cycle or using public transport by 2041.‎ It includes record investment in new and improved rail, tube and bus services, an unprecedented focus on walking and cycling, and a commitment to make the entire transport system zero-emission by 2050.



Last June, The Mayor published a draft of his strategy for statutory consultation, and more than 6,500 responses have been received from members of the public and key stakeholders from across the UK.


As outlined in the Strategy, there will be new Tube trains and signalling giving more frequent and reliable services, the opening of the Elizabeth line, extensions to the Tube, DLR and Overground, new green buses and taxis, new river crossings, and the transformation of London’s streets to make walking, cycling and public transport the most appealing and practical choices for Londoners. The strategy also reiterates how vital Crossrail 2 and a transformed suburban rail metro service are for the capital’s future economy, jobs and homes.



Following extensive feedback from the consultation, the strategy now also includes the potential for a West London Orbital rail line, connecting Hounslow with Cricklewood and Hendon via Old Oak, Neasden and Brent Cross. This new line, delivered through TfL, the West London Alliance, boroughs and Network Rail, could potentially support the delivery of an additional 20,000 homes, as well as employment growth in west London.



The strategy also contains a specific proposal to work with the London Boroughs of Merton and Sutton to develop the proposed Sutton Tram extension.



Across the next two decades, the Mayor’s Transport Strategy will include:



  • Major transport schemes including the Elizabeth line, Northern Line extension, Crossrail 2, Bakerloo line extension and the Rotherhithe and Canary Wharf crossing. These major transport schemes, delivered through partnerships and close working between TfL, boroughs, and landowners across London, will help create hundreds of thousands of new jobs and homes across London and the South East and support the principles of ‘Good Growth’.


  • Billions to be invested in delivering the Healthy Streets Approach across all London boroughs. This investment will help remove the need to travel by car, and make walking, cycling and taking public transport safer and easier, helping to promote healthier active lifestyles. This includes major transformation schemes at Oxford Street and Old Street in Central London, as well as hundreds of walking and cycling schemes across inner and outer London to help more journeys become active, efficient and sustainable.


  • Forging ahead with Crossrail 2, which is vital to the success of the wider UK economy. Once delivered the new rail line would relieve pressure on the transport network across the south of England, enabling 270,000 more people to travel into and across central London every morning at peak time, and will drive the development of 200,000 homes and 200,000 new jobs across the south east.


  • Record breaking investment across the entire Tube network to run more trains more often and carry far more passengers. This investment will see the completion of new signalling and more frequent services on the Metropolitan, District, Circle and Hammersmith & City lines. The modernisation of the Piccadilly, Central, Bakerloo and Waterloo & City lines will also begin by the mid-2020s and see new trains and more frequent services delivered to increase capacity and improve reliability.


  • Dramatically improving air quality across London and making London a zero-emission city. This will be delivered through a phased approach, following wide-spread public consultation and building on the forthcoming introduction of the Ultra Low Emission Zone. This includes creating zero emission areas in town centres from 2020 and in central London from 2025, larger zero emission zones in inner London by 2040 and London-wide by 2050. TfL will lead by example, with the aim that all taxis and PHVs will be zero emission capable by 2033 and buses will be zero emission by 2037.


  • Improving accessibility across London to enable all Londoners, including disabled and older people, to travel spontaneously and independently. The Mayor and TfL will work hard to halve the additional journey time required by those using step-free network only, so that journey times on the step-free network become comparable to those on the wider transport network. This work will see more Tube and rail stations made fully accessible, while improvements to the DLR and London Tram, both of which are already 100 per cent fully accessible, will make it easier for people with a disability to turn-up-and-go. When Sadiq became Mayor, fewer than 25 per cent of Tube stations were step free - the interim target is to ensure 40 per cent of the network is accessible by 2022.


During last year's statutory consultation on the draft Mayor's Transport Strategy, more than 6,500 responses were received from members of the public and stakeholders from across the UK, showing strong support for the aspirations and vision set out. Hundreds of presentations were carried out across London to key stakeholders and businesses to explain the strategy.



Sadiq Khan, Mayor of London, said:

“I’m delighted that thousands of Londoners have got involved and given us their feedback on the future of transport in London over the coming decades.



“I’ve been clear that we need to be bold in how our city operates as London’s population grows, and this means not only investing record amounts in new infrastructure like extensions to the tube, rail and Crossrail 2, but working with boroughs and local communities to reduce our reliance on car use across London.



“With our unprecedented focus on walking, cycling and clean public transport, our ambitious Transport Strategy can act as a crucial driver for new homes and jobs, but also improve quality of life for everyone living in London.”

Val Shawcross, Deputy Mayor for Transport, said:

“Our ambitious strategy for the next 25 years shows how we can provide affordable, accessible and world-class transport for every Londoner, while ensuring our transport network acts as a huge catalyst for new jobs and homes across the capital. We have looked closely at the input from thousands of people who have responded to the consultation, and I’m pleased that our bold focus on encouraging walking, cycling and public transport, alongside reducing emissions, remains at the heart of our Strategy.”

London’s Transport Commissioner, Mike Brown, said: “Transport is vital to the success of a city. The capital’s population is expected to rise to 10.8m people by 2041 – creating six million additional journeys every day. This bold strategy sets out how London can prosper as it grows over the next two decades, supported by huge improvements to the transport system and the Mayor’s vision for active, affordable, efficient and sustainable transport.”



Jasmine Whitbread, chief executive of business group, London First, said: “If London’s going to continue to grow, we have to build the transport links our city needs. Crossrail is a huge achievement and promises to transform journeys across the capital, but the trains will be full as soon as the doors open. The launch of the Elizabeth Line shows the way for London, and that means Crossrail 2.”



Fran Graham, Campaign Coordinator, London Cycling Campaign (LCC), said:

“London Cycling Campaign welcomes that walking and cycling are at the heart of the Mayor’s Transport Strategy. It’s vital for the future functioning of a dense, complex and growing city like London that active travel and greener public transport are prioritised over motor traffic.



“London Cycling Campaign looks forward to continuing to work with the Mayor, TfL and the boroughs on exciting schemes that are already on the table such as Cycle Superhighways 4, 9 and 11. These routes will help the Mayor fulfil his commitment to triple protected space for cycling on main roads during this mayoralty, and get implementation of the Mayoral Transport Strategy off to a good start.”



Ruth Owen OBE, Chief Executive of Whizz-Kidz, said: “Whizz-Kidz is delighted to see accessibility at the heart of the Mayor of London’s transport strategy. Expanding the step free network, halving additional journey times and improving turn-up-and-go services will not only make travel easier for young wheelchair users, but also give them greater access to the many leisure, education and employment opportunities London has to offer.



“As one of the supporters of Whizz-Kidz’s Get on Board campaign, TfL has shown a real commitment to improving accessibility, and it is extremely encouraging that the Mayor is exploring how new technology can drive further innovation across the capital’s transport network.”




Notes to editors
Following the consultation, the strategy has been reviewed and, where required amended to reflect some key comments raised. In addition to the West London Orbital Rail and Sutton Tram extension, the amendments are in key areas such as:



  • Continued focus on prioritising bus services in outer London. Following several years of decline, bus ridership is now beginning to improve, helped by investment in bus priority measures and more affordable fares. Improvements to the Tube and the Elizabeth Line from the end of this year, coupled with more people walking and cycling allow bus services to be restructured to ensure a core reliable bus network in central London, and help improve bus services in outer London right now and in the longer term. New orbital bus routes will also be investigated in the coming years, supporting new housing and business developments and providing new capacity along key routes in inner and outer London.


  • Supporting the freight and logistics industry to reduce impact of deliveries while ensuring they remain efficient and accessible across London. The strategy outlines a range of measures to help reduce the number of lorries and vans in central London during the morning peak by 10 per cent by 2026. This include identifying key freight routes across London which could be completed by rail and water as well as understanding the wider impact of “last-mile” deliveries and seeing whether they could be consolidated or retimed to help reduce congestion on a localised level.


  • Ensuring that a Vision Zero approach applies to the whole transport system. This radical change to how London approaches road danger will aim for no one to be killed in or by a London bus by 2030, and for all deaths and serious injuries from road collisions to be eliminated from London’s streets by 2041. Later this year, TfL will publish its strategy for achieving the Mayor's 'Vision Zero' aim, with the focus on reducing road dangers caused by speeding, fast traffic and poor road design.


  • Working with Government, local boroughs and developers across London to secure revenue to deliver vital transport infrastructure. TfL no longer receives an operating grant from Government and in the coming years has to rely more on other income to keep the capital moving. TfL’s recent Business Plan shows the good progress being made in turning the deficit caused by the removal of this grant into a surplus over the next five years, with savings to operating costs already £242m ahead of this year’s target. However, to protect transport investment in the long-term, the Government needs to allow greater use of Business Rate Retention, as well as approving additional powers, such as allowing Vehicle Excise Duty raised in London to be reinvested into the capitals roads, to create a fairer way of funding transport schemes. Failure to do so could lead to London losing its place as a world-leading capital city and risk businesses opting to relocate as a result.


  • Increased focus on the opportunities from new technology to ensure that innovations contribute to Mayor’s Transport Strategy outcomes and the public good. TfL is already working with a wide range of tech companies around the world to support, and learn from, innovation that could improve transport across London. This builds on what TfL has already delivered in areas such as contactless ticketing, free open data and state of the art signalling. A number of pilots and initiatives are underway to help ensure that any introduction of new technology is safe, environmentally-friendly and consistent with the wider focus on walking, cycling and green public transport.


The Mayor’s Transport Strategy will be discussed by the London Assembly on 8 March and can be accessed by visiting: https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=179&MId=6259

Available at: https://www.london.gov.uk/moderngov/documents/b16916/Draft Transport Strategy Thursday 08-Mar-2018 10.00 London Assembly Plenary.pdf?T=9 (22MB)

Via: https://www.london.gov.uk/press-releases/mayoral/strategy-for-the-future-of-londons-transport
 

Attachments

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cle

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Interesting.

Will trams from Croydon etc be able to run into South Wimbledon (Sutton and St Helier to Wimbledon is covered by TL)? Yes it feeds the Northern line even more, but would relieve Wimbledon pressure and add tube options for a lot of folk. More cause to modernise, split and up the Northern line frequency - and also strengthen the case for a Crossrail 2 kink to Tooting - oh, where is Khan from again? ;)

On the West London Orbital - the Kew Bridge spur is curious. I wonder if that routing could be used better in terms of running on to Barnes, Putney and possibly even Clapham Junction? Build out another bay at the Overground end and finally reinforce that island to support a platform 1 for WLL! The current WLL platform could be shared between WLL/ELL - if both are going up to 6tph+ in future, this may be needed.
Good otherwise, lots of development in Isleworth and Brentford which are not well-connected currently. Hopefully this will lead to a lot of home-building, given the good connection into OOC and Crossrail.
 

mirodo

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London Reconnections did a piece on the Tramlink extension a couple of years ago which is worth a read.
It was not long after Croydon Tramlink opened, or perhaps even slightly before, that the neighbouring borough of Sutton first seriously proposed a scheme of its own. There was a very obvious potential route. This would have gone from Sutton Station via the town centre northwards to Rose Hill roundabout. Rose Hill roundabout is a major six road roundabout with a local parade of shops....
 
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swt_passenger

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There’s a detailed analysis of the orbital rail scheme here:
http://democracy.brent.gov.uk/documents/s58355/7b. Draft feasbility study.pdf
From when this was last in the news last autumn...
Recommendations

A strong economic case has been demonstrated for the introduction of operationally feasible WLO rail services using the Dudding Hill Line. This supports the rationale for developing the scheme further, with a focus on the identified technical challenges for the implementation of the scheme, i.e. for Acton Wells and Bollo Lane.

Subject to the development of viable solutions, the strength of the case should be revisited on the basis of revised cost estimates and more detailed demand forecasting, incorporating a full run through the TfL model suite to capture forecast mode transfer. It would also be an opportunity for a thorough review and a possible improvement of the accuracy of the public transport model in line with TfL and DfT guidance.

In the expectation that the case for the scheme will remain strong, and with refined capital cost estimates, a funding proposal should be developed cognisant of the scope for developer contributions and the requirements for incorporating the services within London Overground in a manner that addresses the currently forecast operating deficit
 
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700007

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West London Orbital is one I'm particularly subscribing to. A project that I've supported for years and have thought would be successful. However I think there's scope for optimisation here to extend the line out to Staines (provided paths are available - turnarounds would be tight especially following an increase of trains per hour around there). Staines is a station a lot of young people in particular and families tend to visit especially in the summer months due to Thorpe Park's proximity (or at least via a dedicated shuttle bus, courtesy of Sullivan's 950) from North and West London. Having a much much easier link rather than hassling to go via Heathrow Airport and catching a bus to Staines I imagine would save so much time for people and would do well on that end.

A further extension I would consider, once again, provided paths are available, is to extend northbound from Hendon to Luton to provide an alternative direct link from near Heathrow Airport, all the way through West London to St. Albans and Luton Airport. I imagine this in its own right could also prove successful.

Annoyingly however, as it is in London, TfL want to get their hands on it and will probably restrict it to a over-frequent, short-hop rail service confining to Hounslow - Hendon / West Hampstead TL. That said, there's also a lot of other TOCs that the line could go to, one in mind was Chiltern Railways as they have a diesel fleet and can easily access the line via Neasden Sth Junction and they seem to be the middle person. However South Western Railway would be another possible contender but it could and would become a black sheep on the MML! They'd have to stable the trains at Clapham Yard I imagine and work a way around to make sure they do get fueled and maintained back home in Salisbury (unless someone else, perhaps Wimbledon) took on diesel trains for this line. ThamesLink is always another possibility with a diesel fleet.
 

Bald Rick

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West London Orbital is one I'm particularly subscribing to. A project that I've supported for years and have thought would be successful. However I think there's scope for optimisation here to extend the line out to Staines (provided paths are available - turnarounds would be tight especially following an increase of trains per hour around there). Staines is a station a lot of young people in particular and families tend to visit especially in the summer months due to Thorpe Park's proximity (or at least via a dedicated shuttle bus, courtesy of Sullivan's 950) from North and West London. Having a much much easier link rather than hassling to go via Heathrow Airport and catching a bus to Staines I imagine would save so much time for people and would do well on that end.

A further extension I would consider, once again, provided paths are available, is to extend northbound from Hendon to Luton to provide an alternative direct link from near Heathrow Airport, all the way through West London to St. Albans and Luton Airport. I imagine this in its own right could also prove successful.

Annoyingly however, as it is in London, TfL want to get their hands on it and will probably restrict it to a over-frequent, short-hop rail service confining to Hounslow - Hendon / West Hampstead TL. That said, there's also a lot of other TOCs that the line could go to, one in mind was Chiltern Railways as they have a diesel fleet and can easily access the line via Neasden Sth Junction and they seem to be the middle person. However South Western Railway would be another possible contender but it could and would become a black sheep on the MML! They'd have to stable the trains at Clapham Yard I imagine and work a way around to make sure they do get fueled and maintained back home in Salisbury (unless someone else, perhaps Wimbledon) took on diesel trains for this line. ThamesLink is always another possibility with a diesel fleet.

No capacity on the MML for any regular passenger service off the Dudding Hill line. Hence if it happens it will stay on the 'Hendons', and that means new platforms.
 

DynamicSpirit

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A further extension I would consider, once again, provided paths are available, is to extend northbound from Hendon to Luton to provide an alternative direct link from near Heathrow Airport, all the way through West London to St. Albans and Luton Airport. I imagine this in its own right could also prove successful.

Would it? Is there some massive untapped demand for people travelling through the UK and changing flights between Heathrow and Luton, who would be willing to make their own way with their own baggage to Hounslow or somewhere to pick up a train? I seem to recall a similar discussion on these forums about linking Heathrow and Gatwick a while ago concluded there just wouldn't be much demand. Besides, once Crossrail and Thameslink are fully up and running, it'll only be a single change at Farringdon to get between the airports (and to a station in Heathrow, not one a couple of miles away).

Annoyingly however, as it is in London, TfL want to get their hands on it and will probably restrict it to a over-frequent, short-hop rail service confining to Hounslow - Hendon / West Hampstead TL.

Sounds quite sensible to me. If you want to attract people to commute within London, then a frequent turn-up-and-go service is what you need.
 

The Ham

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Would it? Is there some massive untapped demand for people travelling through the UK and changing flights between Heathrow and Luton, who would be willing to make their own way with their own baggage to Hounslow or somewhere to pick up a train? I seem to recall a similar discussion on these forums about linking Heathrow and Gatwick a while ago concluded there just wouldn't be much demand. Besides, once Crossrail and Thameslink are fully up and running, it'll only be a single change at Farringdon to get between the airports (and to a station in Heathrow, not one a couple of miles away).

There's a few things that may change the assessment of going to Staines/Heathrow. First off there's it could provide a link to Heathrow using some of the options for the Southern Approach to Heathrow.

Next it's there's likely to be a lot more people from asking the line that would like to go to either airport which would make extending to both worthwhile even if no-one makes the journey end to end. Although, because of the different markets that Luton and Heathrow airports serve the could still be a number of people who could get to the new service more easily than to the airports from nearby resulting in a near end to end demand.
 

Rational Plan

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The only real spare capacity on the Windsor lines is on the Hounslow Loop, hence the Overground proposals. What extra capacity released by infrastructure upgrades will go on more trains to Waterloo, where 99% passengers will want to go.
 

700007

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Would it? Is there some massive untapped demand for people travelling through the UK and changing flights between Heathrow and Luton, who would be willing to make their own way with their own baggage to Hounslow or somewhere to pick up a train? I seem to recall a similar discussion on these forums about linking Heathrow and Gatwick a while ago concluded there just wouldn't be much demand. Besides, once Crossrail and Thameslink are fully up and running, it'll only be a single change at Farringdon to get between the airports (and to a station in Heathrow, not one a couple of miles away).



Sounds quite sensible to me. If you want to attract people to commute within London, then a frequent turn-up-and-go service is what you need.
Apologies - I wasn't implying that people would travel from Heathrow all the way to Luton as even I am aware there's never a huge demand for cross-airport transfers, I was just saying the distance of this scheme. Heathrow is surrounded by lots of houses and town centres that the West London Orbital would go past (i.e. Hounslow, Brentford, Acton) which would provide a more frequent link to Feltham and could be successful and popular, especially for airport staff or those flying out. Same on the northern end near Luton and surrounding towns, it provides a more frequent service, although as aforementioned I do understand pathing constraints would occur.

The turn-up-and-go service of course (I'd benefit from it, I'm regularly around the areas the line goes and many moons ago I used to live on various places around those lines) is useful and handy. But southwards from Acton Central poses as an issue. There are many scheduling conflicts that can occur with high frequency rail services (such as the LO NLL) and SWR services into London Waterloo. It's unrealistic to, in the long-term, somehow have 8 trains an hour in addition to the 4 trains an hour between Old Oak Common and South Acton without some sort of major infrastructure upgrade. An important note here is also the Bollo Lane level crossings - 24tph (4 to Stratford, 4 to Richmond, 4 Kew Bridge, 4 Hounslow, 4 to West Hampstead TL and 4 to Hendon) is going to cause non-stop chaos on that road as the barriers would nearly be shut all day whilst trains are in operation essentially. Traffic can easily back up and a local TfL bus service (the 440 between Stonebridge Park and Chiswick, Power Road) has 4 buses an hour each direction passing both crossings as well as the newly extended route 70 from South Kensington into Chiswick Business Park.

In addition, SWR is proposing to run 6tph on the Hounslow loop post December 2018, TfL adding 4tph will once again lead to another scheduling conflict especially if the service is planned to terminate at Hounslow where there's been no mentions (correct me if I'm wrong, but even I'm digging around for this information) in regards to building a siding, a loop or a bay platform of some sort because the WLO trains naturally are going to end up having incredibly short turn around times which is bad on a day of disruption. It will affect LO's track record of good reliability and punctuality.

TfL's plans in its current state is not achievable to be quite blunt. As great as it is, it's not realistic at all. I think a more realistic option may be to initially operate 3tph West Hampstead to Hounslow and 3tph Hendon to Kew Bridge during the peaks and decrease this to 2tph on each branch during the off peak. The 'core' section if you will provides a train every 10 minutes on the WLO during the peaks and every 15 off peak, which I think with the right capacity (perhaps a 3 or 4 car train) will appropriately match demand.

In an ideal world, paths permitting, I'd still look into possibility of extending this to Staines but the shunt moves will need to be quick and well-timed to and from the loop (as annoyingly it's to the east of the station and not west) but the Staines extension would be incredibly popular with passengers especially during the summer months.

Nothing has been mentioned on what sort of stock is to be used? The line isn't fully electrified but I'm wondering if bi-mode can come into play? Perhaps TfL can bring back the D-stocks in their new afterlife as the 230? :D
 

DynamicSpirit

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The turn-up-and-go service of course (I'd benefit from it, I'm regularly around the areas the line goes and many moons ago I used to live on various places around those lines) is useful and handy. But southwards from Acton Central poses as an issue. There are many scheduling conflicts that can occur with high frequency rail services (such as the LO NLL) and SWR services into London Waterloo. It's unrealistic to, in the long-term, somehow have 8 trains an hour in addition to the 4 trains an hour between Old Oak Common and South Acton without some sort of major infrastructure upgrade. An important note here is also the Bollo Lane level crossings - 24tph (4 to Stratford, 4 to Richmond, 4 Kew Bridge, 4 Hounslow, 4 to West Hampstead TL and 4 to Hendon) is going to cause non-stop chaos on that road as the barriers would nearly be shut all day whilst trains are in operation essentially. Traffic can easily back up and a local TfL bus service (the 440 between Stonebridge Park and Chiswick, Power Road) has 4 buses an hour each direction passing both crossings as well as the newly extended route 70 from South Kensington into Chiswick Business Park.

I agree with you that a turn-up-and-go service would require infrastructure improvements.

Personally, I'd have probably approached the problem of orbital links differently, and done something like this at the Southern end:
  • Move Gunnersbury station further south to where the LUL lines cross the Hounslow line, so it can become an interchange station.
  • Build another interchange station for Chiswick Business Park where the North London line crosses the District/Piccadilly lines
  • Recast the Overground timetable so trains run every 10 minutes from Stratford right through to Richmond, with the West London line becoming a Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction shuttle. That's to ensure that there are attractive connections for people changing trains at Chiswick Business Park/new Gunnersbury station.
That would give all the same journey opportunities at the Southern end that the TfL proposals would give, and more, but without requiring many extra trains (although it would take a lot of infrastructure works).

That of course leaves the Northern end untouched. In an ideal World, I'd possibly have put a DLR-style operation on it, to run a line from Old Oak Common (or even perhaps Ealing Broadway, replacing the Cental line spur) right through to Brent Cross shopping centre (station by the main entrance - which would be next to impossible with heavy rail) and terminating at Brent Cross Northern line station. That could also give you additional stations at places like Craven Park and Dudden Hill lane - and so could enable many more journeys than heavy rail would give you in that area. However, that probably wouldn't be possible if the line is also used by freight trains. With the constraint of freight trains, perhaps something could be done with your idea of longer distance services, although I'd be concerned at the wasted opportunity if that meant relatively infrequent services.
 
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MarkyT

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  • Move Gunnersbury station further south to where the LUL lines cross the Hounslow line, so it can become an interchange station.
The first problem with this is that Gunnersbury is already a very well established site accessed from Chiswick High Road, at the centre of the surrounding communities and good for bus ad taxi access. Where you propose is isolated and hidden from that main road and access from surrounding small residential roads would be difficult.

The second problem is the corresponding new platforms on the SWR Hounslow line would be very close to the well established Kew Bridge station, again sited very conveniently on main roads at a major road junction and river crossing. Difficult to justify a second station so close primarily for rail to rail interchange, and I can't see Kew Bridge closing
  • Build another interchange station for Chiswick Business Park where the North London line crosses the District/Piccadilly lines
An alternative would be to relocate Gunnersbury to the north side of Chiswick High Road, with separate platforms for District and NLL on their respective lines. An entrance at the south/west of these platforms could be within 200m of the existing Gunnersbury station entrance, on the opposite side of the road, while new pedestrian walkways at the north/east of this new site could connect to the west end of Chiswick Park station for Piccadilly Line interchange, if the station was incorporated into that line's service pattern as part of a takeover of the Ealing Broadway branch.
  • Recast the Overground timetable so trains run every 10 minutes from Stratford right through to Richmond, with the West London line becoming a Clapham Junction-Willesden Junction shuttle. That's to ensure that there are attractive connections for people changing trains at Chiswick Business Park/new Gunnersbury station.
That would give all the same journey opportunities at the Southern end that the TfL proposals would give, and more, but without requiring many extra trains (although it would take a lot of infrastructure works).

Without your SWR Hounslow line interchange station on the NLL, which I think is not practical, some Overground trains will have to go to Hounslow, which is also no doubt desirable anyway for the benefits of through service, whichever northern branch they are directly connected to and ideally the frequencies should be broadly matched so that interchange between the intermeshed lines on the common section would normally entail merely alighting from one train and waiting for the next one.

Bollo Lane level crossings are a major constraint. A new grade separated road route might be possible through the Gunnersbury triangle area to allow closure of the crossings. Pedestrian/cycle bridges or subways at the old crossing sites could be retained to preserve local urban connectivity.

See attached image. Station platforms groups indicated by line colour. New pedestrian connections shown yellow. New grade separated road avoiding Bollo Lane crossings shown red.gunnersbury.jpg
 
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contractador

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Out of interest, would there be a better case for terminating the Southern end at Twickenham rather than Hounslow? Could platform 2 be made a through platform to allow for this? If so is it possible to avoid significant path conflicts?

This would potentially allow for inter-connection with the Sunbury Line and Kingston Loop while of course also providing allowing direct access from the Northern end to Twickenham Station on match days
 

wildcard

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In addition, SWR is proposing to run 6tph on the Hounslow loop post December 2018, TfL adding 4tph will once again lead to another scheduling conflict especially if the service is planned to terminate at Hounslow where there's been no mentions (correct me if I'm wrong, but even I'm digging around for this information) in regards to building a siding, a loop or a bay platform of some sort because the WLO trains naturally are going to end up having incredibly short turn around times which is bad on a day of disruption. It will affect LO's track record of good reliability and punctuality.

Joe Browns atlas shows old sidings south of Hounslow on both the up and down lines . Google seems to show the land is still available - so it should be possible to splay the track and fit a reversing siding. Detraining by LO staff might be quick with walkthrough carriages.

Edit : Perhaps more could be made of Hounslow for match day passengers for Twickenham . Catching a train back to Waterloo after the game is a 45 minute queue at the moment.
 

swt_passenger

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Out of interest, would there be a better case for terminating the Southern end at Twickenham rather than Hounslow? Could platform 2 be made a through platform to allow for this? If so is it possible to avoid significant path conflicts?
SWR's 2018 timetable already proposes their own trains terminating at Hounslow once infrastructure changes are made, this is fallout from the 4 tph services to Reading and Windsor operating all day. The current Weybridge services round the loop are going to be split. It seems unlikely that having done this for pathing reasons and junction constraints they would then re-introduce the problems by extending the proposed services orbital services instead...
 

swt_passenger

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In addition, SWR is proposing to run 6tph on the Hounslow loop post December 2018, TfL adding 4tph will once again lead to another scheduling conflict especially if the service is planned to terminate at Hounslow where there's been no mentions (correct me if I'm wrong, but even I'm digging around for this information) in regards to building a siding, a loop or a bay platform of some sort...
Proposals for a 3rd platform at Hounslow to reverse 4 tph are mentioned in the report I linked to in post #5, at section 5.4.12.
 

cle

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Isn't a similar purpose for Twickenham possible for CR2?

Agreed though, being a major destination, interchange and having the platform capacity more should be done with it...
 

MarkyT

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Isn't a similar purpose for Twickenham possible for CR2?

Agreed though, being a major destination, interchange and having the platform capacity more should be done with it...

Twickenham has been dropped from CR2 I believe. Recent official maps illustrating the project all omit the station.
 

contractador

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SWR's 2018 timetable already proposes their own trains terminating at Hounslow once infrastructure changes are made, this is fallout from the 4 tph services to Reading and Windsor operating all day. The current Weybridge services round the loop are going to be split. It seems unlikely that having done this for pathing reasons and junction constraints they would then re-introduce the problems by extending the proposed services orbital services instead...

Fair enough. You wouldn't want to reintroduce conflicts that had just been resolved. Is it that part of the line between Hounslow and Twickenham which is most constrained? The rest looks as self-contained as terminating at Hounslow would be (assuming a new terminating platform at Twickenham).
 

swt_passenger

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Fair enough. You wouldn't want to reintroduce conflicts that had just been resolved. Is it that part of the line between Hounslow and Twickenham which is most constrained? The rest looks as self-contained as terminating at Hounslow would be (assuming a new terminating platform at Twickenham).
I can’t remember the details now but there was some info about the Hounslow terminating idea in one of the documents that has subsequently been removed from the SWR site. Unless someone kept a copy offline I can’t really expand on earlier comments...
 
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The tram scheme linked to above is one of only three options, the other 2 involve severing the Sutton Loop just West of Sutton Common (iirc) and using the trackbed to take the trams via this route into Wimbledon.
 

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Dr_Paul

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Out of interest, would there be a better case for terminating the Southern end at Twickenham rather than Hounslow? Could platform 2 be made a through platform to allow for this? If so is it possible to avoid significant path conflicts? This would potentially allow for inter-connection with the Sunbury Line and Kingston Loop while of course also providing allowing direct access from the Northern end to Twickenham Station on match days

Twickenham has three platforms, Hounslow has just two, so this would make sense. The new buildings at Twickenham have been constructed in a way that the bay platform could be accessed from the west, thus making it the fourth through platform, which is a sensible bit of thinking on the part of those responsible for their design.
 

Meerkat

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Sorry for being cynical but isn’t this yet another desperate attempt to find a justification to use an existing line, just because it is there?
Bodging together “we need more public transport” and “existing line” even if there is no real match.

Seems to me it adds congestion onto congested lines, particularly through flat junctions, without really connecting anywhere that needs connecting.
Just spend the money improving the cramped interchange routes at Willesden Junction and finally putting platforms on every route at West Hampstead with covered travelators between them
 

swt_passenger

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Twickenham has three platforms, Hounslow has just two, so this would make sense. The new buildings at Twickenham have been constructed in a way that the bay platform could be accessed from the west, thus making it the fourth through platform, which is a sensible bit of thinking on the part of those responsible for their design.
But they are explicit in not wanting to go beyond Hounslow, to avoid conflicts with SWR at yet another flat junction. Why else suggest a new reversing platform at Hounslow? You cannot really look at this proposal and ignore SWR’s franchise requirements for 8 tph round the loop.
 

Dr_Paul

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Sorry for being cynical but isn’t this yet another desperate attempt to find a justification to use an existing line, just because it is there? Bodging together “we need more public transport” and “existing line” even if there is no real match. Seems to me it adds congestion onto congested lines, particularly through flat junctions, without really connecting anywhere that needs connecting. Just spend the money improving the cramped interchange routes at Willesden Junction and finally putting platforms on every route at West Hampstead with covered travelators between them

One might say the same thing about the South London Line and the West London Line: both use existing lines with flat junctions, taking over from and developing, in the first instance, a poorly-used half-hourly Victoria to London Bridge service, and, in the second, a (from my experience) hopelessly unreliable rush-hour-only Clapham Junction to Olympia service service, yet they are well used all through the day, covering journeys that were difficult or nigh-on impossible before (for example, Clapham Junction to Shepherd's Bush, Peckham to Wapping).

I highly suspect that were a frequent Hounslow to Hendon and/or Cricklewood service instituted, with its connection with the North London Line at Acton and the interchange at Harlesden, it would be a success.
 

Dr_Paul

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But they are explicit in not wanting to go beyond Hounslow, to avoid conflicts with SWR at yet another flat junction. Why else suggest a new reversing platform at Hounslow? You cannot really look at this proposal and ignore SWR’s franchise requirements for 8 tph round the loop.

Fair enough: it did cross my mind that going round from Hounslow to Twickenham might cause congestion problems at the latter station, even with opening up the bay to through traffic, and because of the flat junctions at Whitton. There could be scope for a terminal platform at Hounslow if part of the former goods-yard is brought back into railway use.
 
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