West Lothian buses

A330Alex

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To summarise the changes in full
X38: Renumbered from 38... Minor changes.
I think quite a few people here would have had a right moan if LCB did this. At best they're trying to masquerade as an express service and at worst they're deliberately trying to cause confusion between both services.
 
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The X22 is also one of the only other services bar the 900 to link Edinburgh with Harthill, wonder how well that will do for the locals in that area
 

Jordan Adam

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Note no 23 on new timetables, therefore Kirknewton and Calderwood not being served, left to LC.
That means nothing, though...

I think quite a few people here would have had a right moan if LCB did this. At best they're trying to masquerade as an express service and at worst they're deliberately trying to cause confusion between both services.
Albeit in fairness First did have rights to the use of the 38 number first and have had a X38 only a few years back. Agree it'll cause confusion, they as bad as eachother in this case.

The X22 is also one of the only other services bar the 900 to link Edinburgh with Harthill, wonder how well that will do for the locals in that area
Can't imagine many will use the X22 from Edinburgh to Harthil. That's not really a target market so to speak.
 

LiviCrazy

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Something that may cause issues there that I can see. The A71 at peak time can be a nightmare and it is generally a lot quicker going along East Calder and Camps way. I can see a lot of delays if the buses are going along A71 from Langton Road now.

However, I also note that they are going via Dedridge again.
 

OmniCity999

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Albeit in fairness First did have rights to the use of the 38 number first and have had a X38 only a few years back. Agree it'll cause confusion, they as bad as eachother in this case.
There are no "rights" required. Anyone can regester a service in any area with any number going in any direction at any time. There are no rights, specially in a so-called bus war. It would confuse passengers, yes, but its allowed. Nobody owns a bus number.
 

Jordan Adam

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There are no "rights" required. Anyone can regester a service in any area with any number going in any direction at any time. There are no rights, specially in a so-called bus war. It would confuse passengers, yes, but its allowed. Nobody owns a bus number.
Yes i know that, i wasn't being literal when i said "rights". What i was implying was that First were the first (excuse the pun) to use the 38 number for that corridor, Lothian then introduced a X38 service (doesn't take a genius to work out why they picked that number), and now First are changing theirs to the X38. The comment i was replying to said "I think quite a few people here would have had a right moan if LCB did this. At best they're trying to masquerade as an express service and at worst they're deliberately trying to cause confusion between both services." - i was just making the point that in this case they're as bad as each other.
 

Colin M

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Yes i know that, i wasn't being literal when i said "rights". What i was implying was that First were the first (excuse the pun) to use the 38 number for that corridor, Lothian then introduced a X38 service (doesn't take a genius to work out why they picked that number), and now First are changing theirs to the X38. The comment i was replying to said "I think quite a few people here would have had a right moan if LCB did this. At best they're trying to masquerade as an express service and at worst they're deliberately trying to cause confusion between both services." - i was just making the point that in this case they're as bad as each other.
It was actually Alexander(Midland)/Midland Scottish that was the first to use the 38 number on that corridor. First merely inherited the route when GRT and Badgerline merged to form First Bus.
 
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It was actually Alexander(Midland)/Midland Scottish that was the first to use the 38 number on that corridor. First merely inherited the route when GRT and Badgerline merged to form First Bus.
Yes, but was that a limited stop service?
First ran an X38 as limited stop between Maybury and Haymarket (and missed out Newbridge i suppose), but of course on the rest of the route to Stirling it just observed all stops. Therefore in some ways the X prefix just confused the majority of passengers who didn't use it in the sections where it ran limited stop. Can't remember the story about going into the Gyle and Bridgend - I think maybe that was covered by 38 and 38A variants.
On the shorter Lothian Country route, and with them accepting Lothian Buses tickets, passengers probably expect buses to serve all stops unless they say X in front. Just calling it 38 would turn out rather messy for them.
Of course the X shouldn't really be interpreted as meaning 'express' as in 'rapid' - when used at peak times they can be slower than the non-X equivalents. The only true express service is the Green Line EX2.
 

Colin M

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Yes, but was that a limited stop service?
First ran an X38 as limited stop between Maybury and Haymarket (and missed out Newbridge i suppose), but of course on the rest of the route to Stirling it just observed all stops. Therefore in some ways the X prefix just confused the majority of passengers who didn't use it in the sections where it ran limited stop. Can't remember the story about going into the Gyle and Bridgend - I think maybe that was covered by 38 and 38A variants.
On the shorter Lothian Country route, and with them accepting Lothian Buses tickets, passengers probably expect buses to serve all stops unless they say X in front. Just calling it 38 would turn out rather messy for them.
Of course the X shouldn't really be interpreted as meaning 'express' as in 'rapid' - when used at peak times they can be slower than the non-X equivalents. The only true express service is the Green Line EX2.
Whether it was a limited-stop service or not is irrelevant. Jordan Adam said First was the first company to use the number 38 on that route when they weren't. It was Alexander(Midland)/Midland Scottish.
 

Jordan Adam

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It was actually Alexander(Midland)/Midland Scottish that was the first to use the 38 number on that corridor. First merely inherited the route when GRT and Badgerline merged to form First Bus.
I get your point but it's somewhat obsolete as it's still the same company, just with a different parent / owner. By saying "First were the first to use the number 38" I'm referencing not only "First Midland Bluebird Ltd" but also it's predecessors. So First were still the first to use 38.
 

Colin M

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I get your point but it's somewhat obsolete as it's still the same company, just with a different parent / owner. By saying "First were the first to use the number 38" I'm referencing not only "First Midland Bluebird Ltd" but also it's predecessors. So First were still the first to use 38.
Alexander(Midland)/Midland Scottish were the first to use it, it is as simple as that. GRT inherited the route when they acquired Midland Scottish and subsequently First inherited it upon the GRT merger with Badgerline. So First was not the first to use it, they inherited it, it was in use before First even existed.
 

Jordan Adam

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Alexander(Midland)/Midland Scottish were the first to use it, it is as simple as that. GRT inherited the route when they acquired Midland Scottish and subsequently First inherited it upon the GRT merger with Badgerline. So First was not the first to use it, they inherited it, it was in use before First even existed.
Yes I know that... First and it's predecessors were the first to use the number 38 on that corridor.
 
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Baileygirl

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All First services are limited stop from the Mabury/Saughton to Regent Road except the 20 which I see has been registered again to run on Sundays. First may stop at some addition stops than Lothian Country Buses. So no difference to LCB X38 and First X38 as neither are expresses.
 
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All First services are limited stop from the Mabury/Saughton to Regent Road except the 20 which I see has been registered again to run on Sundays. First may stop at some addition stops than Lothian Country Buses. So no difference to LCB X38 and First X38 as neither are expresses.
That is true as I’m sure First additional stop at North Gyle, Balgreen Road and Roseburn! Because I’m sure a few comments passengers have asked LCB is if they stop at Roseburn
 

overthewater

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I was going to query that... Was the 38 a joint service between Scottish Omnibuses (Eastern Scottish) and Alexander Midland (Midland Scottish), as Linlithgow was an Eastern depot until 1985? I should remember but I can't.
Yes it was a joint service. Used to be able to do the full route in 1h 46m! No42/43/44/45 Alloa - Bo'ness - SQ - Edinburgh was NOT jointly operated.
 

Journeyman

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First have chopped and changed numbers a few times recently. For a while they ran an X38 that was faster than all the others, then all of them were X38s before the 38/38A split.

It's still woefully bad, whatever they call it.
 

Driver362

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Midland (Larbert), Bannockburn, and Alloa depot all had 38 boards over the years with Linthgow having the lions share. Up till maybe 6/7 years ago Bn still had one 38 board. OTW is correct in that over the years the above depots worked it jointly with with Lw
 

Jordan Adam

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TheGrandWazoo

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I recall seeing a map/timetable online a while back for this services! I had forgotten that there used to be so many variations.
Visiting Edinburgh in the mid 1980s, I remember the joint services with Midland vehicles; think they were mainly drawn from Larbert and Grangemouth depots but doubtless from Stirling/Bannockburn. Apart from that, there was the 100/101 service to Dumfries worked with Western. Of course, there were plenty of Fife services but can't recall any joint ops.

Eastern's operation of the 38 probably dates from the 1930s at least, if not earlier.
 

smtglasgow

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All before my time, but from old timetable books, I think the Edinburgh-Alloa service had gone by the mid-70s. The Falkirk-Boness-Edinburgh service was a Scotmap creation (and joint Midland/Eastern until Midland got Linlithgow), but I think it survived in some form until quite recently (well, maybe 10-15 years ago, I’m getting old???). I can definitely remember seeing First buses heading out to Falkirk through South Queensferry. It’s a shame Linlithgow depot closed, it seemed ideal for the 38 and 43 and would just be coming into its own as Winchburgh and the west of Edinburgh expand. Can’t remember – did it close for economic reasons or to redevelop the site?
 

overthewater

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Every thing seems to have been kept in place until 1980. Isn't that when Scotmap was done?47 was kept until November 1999 changes.

I believe cost cutting but depot did make a pretty penny.
 

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