West Lothian buses

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Jordan Adam

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My money's on them being suspended indefinitely - i can't see them coming back once all the Coronavirus restrictions are lifted.
Agreed, the fact they're not even bringing in a limited timetable surely says something. Likewise with the X17, 275, 280 and 287.
 
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overthewater

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I believe the 280 not running is because it's linked into 275 from Sunday. I think the main reason the 275 isn't running is because Gyle is pretty much shut.

I agree I don't think x38 will be back however the ex2 might cone back...
 
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I believe the 280 not running is because it's linked into 275 from Sunday. I think the main reason the 275 isn't running is because Gyle is pretty much shut.

I agree I don't think x38 will be back however the ex2 might cone back...
So overall Linlithgow, Blackridge, Fauldhouse, Pumpherson are lost without a service from LCB during all of this.
 

Jordan Adam

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So overall Linlithgow, Blackridge, Fauldhouse, Pumpherson are lost without a service from LCB during all of this.
Blackridge, Fauldhouse*, West Calder, Livingston Wester Inch, Bits of Armadale, Kirkliston, Winchburgh, Linlithgow, Springfield, Pumpherston, Uphall Station & Deer Park are the areas normally served by LCB that'll no longer be served. However it should be noted that even the areas LCB will still serve the service is very much limited. The Centre to St John's for example Lothian will offer 2 buses per hour, where First will offer 8, Likewise to Deans Lothian offer 1 per hour vs First's 5 per hour. So it'll be very interesting to see how things work out.

*Fauldhouse was no longer going to be served from this weekend anyway.
 

CN04NRJ

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Agreed, the fact they're not even bringing in a limited timetable surely says something. Likewise with the X17, 275 and 280.
I wouldn't describe those services as "critical links" during a national emergency. I'd fully expect them to operate when things (hopefully) start to go back to normal.
 

Jordan Adam

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I wouldn't describe those services as "critical links" during a national emergency. I'd fully expect them to operate when things (hopefully) start to go back to normal.
I never said they were, however under that same logic the X27 & X28 are not "critical links" either as they're covered by other means. Arguably the X18 isn't either, however i can see the case for retaining that route.
 

Driver362

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I never said they were, however under that same logic the X27 & X28 are not "critical links" either as they're covered by other means. Arguably the X18 isn't either, however i can see the case for retaining that route.
So under the same logic should LCB just park everything and let first run around in empty buses. I know that for fact as I've spoke to several first drivers who I've know for some time have stated that fact, plus what I've seen with my own eyes. Yes the above comment was a joke, sitting at home on 80% ain't much fun
 

lastbus

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So under the same logic should LCB just park everything and let first run around in empty buses. I know that for fact as I've spoke to several first drivers who I've know for some time have stated that fact, plus what I've seen with my own eyes. Yes the above comment was a joke, sitting at home on 80% ain't much fun
First are still running a decent service because the Scottish government have said they will pay projected concession revenue. Maybe Lothian should’ve done the same.
 

Jordan Adam

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So under the same logic should LCB just park everything and let first run around in empty buses. I know that for fact as I've spoke to several first drivers who I've know for some time have stated that fact, plus what I've seen with my own eyes. Yes the above comment was a joke, sitting at home on 80% ain't much fun
But that's not what i said. My point was that the X18, X27 & X28 are theoretically also not "vital" services because if they were withdrawn there is other means that covers what they do. A vital service is one where if it were withdrawn there would be no alternative, clearly in the case of every LCB route (except the 43) there is an alternative, hence my point.
 

Baileygirl

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But that's not what i said. My point was that the X18, X27 & X28 are theoretically also not "vital" services because if they were withdrawn there is other means that covers what they do. A vital service is one where if it were withdrawn there would be no alternative, clearly in the case of every LCB route (except the 43) there is an alternative, hence my point.
There are a couple of places First no longer cover. Dechmont X18, Kirknewton X28 and Calderwood, East Calder X27. They would be cut off if these services didn't run.
 

Jordan Adam

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There are a couple of places First no longer cover. Dechmont X18, Kirknewton X28 and Calderwood, East Calder X27. They would be cut off if these services didn't run.
Dechmont are in walking distance to the X25 and 600, Kirknewton have a rail service, X22/X23 serve East Calder. So the only one that would loose a "vital" service is Calderwood, however as that's new builds bus use will be lower at the best of times anyway.
 

CN04NRJ

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I never said they were, however under that same logic the X27 & X28 are not "critical links" either as they're covered by other means. Arguably the X18 isn't either, however i can see the case for retaining that route.
I wouldn't draw inference that LCB are about to *permanently* suspend services, using the outbreak as justification, unless I had some kind of inexplicable bias against the company in all my posts.
 

Jordan Adam

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I wouldn't draw inference that LCB are about to *permanently* suspend services, using the outbreak as justification, unless I had some kind of inexplicable bias against the company in all my posts.
I never said that, one again people are looking for an argument and fabricating crap that hasn't been said. I'm talking about if a service is vital are not. Someone made a point that it made sense Lothain didn't run X17/275/280/287/EX2/X38 as they're not vital services, i simply made the point that under the same logic of thinking the X18, X27 and X28 are not vital services either as like the routes being cut they're covered by other means (as in another operators bus route or rail link). The original point was specifically relating to Lothian Country's service reductions, hence why my replies were specifically about Lothians service levels.

On a side note it's not bias to have an opinion, additionally i have no connection to either operator unlike others on here...
 

Driver362

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Well why do you think it should be first to cover those critical and vital routes and links and not LCB. Could it not be first need not bother as it's covered by LCB, it's always the other way round. I'm not looking for an argument either just how it looks. If first want to pound around burning fuel and paying wages for nowt good for them. But with my own eyes I don't see the need for them running round at the frequency they do
 

Jordan Adam

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Well why do you think it should be first to cover those critical and vital routes and links and not LCB. Could it not be first need not bother as it's covered by LCB, it's always the other way round. I'm not looking for an argument either just how it looks. If first want to pound around burning fuel and paying wages for nowt good for them. But with my own eyes I don't see the need for them running round at the frequency they do
I don't think it should or shouldn't be First who cover those routes, that is not at all what i'm talking about please read what i've said again you're missing the point. Arrrg!

Someone said Lothian not covering the X17/275/280/287/X38/EX2 made sense as they're not vital services (because they're covered by other means), i was simply stating the fact that the same logic could apply to the X18/X27/X28 because like the X17/275/280/287/X38/EX2 they're also covered by other means whether that be another operators service or a rail link.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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On a side note it's not bias to have an opinion, additionally i have no connection to either operator unlike others on here...
Er....that's exactly what bias is. To have an opinion that is inclined to one party or another. You clearly favour First whereas most seem to be pro Lothian or anti First. Whether people have a connection or work for them really isn't relevant.

It's not wrong to have a view or preference per se. The issue comes when people selectively interpret facts to support their bias i.e. not based on fair judgement.

Seems that the Transdev/Connexions and this one are especially prone to such instances.
 

Jordan Adam

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Er....that's exactly what bias is. To have an opinion that is inclined to one party or another. You clearly favour First whereas most seem to be pro Lothian or anti First. Whether people have a connection or work for them really isn't relevant.

It's not wrong to have a view or preference per se. The issue comes when people selectively interpret facts to support their bias i.e. not based on fair judgement.
However, I don't hold any prejudice against any operators and have praised Lothian countless times for the city operation and they way they transformed ECB. I just disagree with the implementation and motives behind the West Lothian venture. I favour first in the sense that i think they're doing a better job in West Lothian than Lothian are specifically when it comes to the network, ticketing and expenditure, but do i think First are great? No. As i mentioned the other week just go to Aberdeen, Falkirk or Stirling and you'll quickly see that the improvements in West Lothian have came at the cost of everywhere else.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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However, I don't hold any prejudice against any operators and have praised Lothian countless times for the city operation and they way they transformed ECB. I just disagree with the implementation and motives behind the West Lothian venture. I favour first in the sense that i think they're doing a better job in West Lothian than Lothian are specifically when it comes to the network, ticketing and expenditure, but do i think First are great? No. As i mentioned the other week just go to Aberdeen, Falkirk or Stirling and you'll quickly see that the improvements in West Lothian have came at the cost of everywhere else.
Did I mention prejudice? Did I mention other threads?

On this thread, you are pro First. That you have no connection to either firm is neither here nor there.
 

Baileygirl

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However, I don't hold any prejudice against any operators and have praised Lothian countless times for the city operation and they way they transformed ECB. I just disagree with the implementation and motives behind the West Lothian venture. I favour first in the sense that i think they're doing a better job in West Lothian than Lothian are specifically when it comes to the network, ticketing and expenditure, but do i think First are great? No. As i mentioned the other week just go to Aberdeen, Falkirk or Stirling and you'll quickly see that the improvements in West Lothian have came at the cost of everywhere else.
What improvements in West Lothian. Services and fares tweaks but buses have got older with second hand buses from Glasgow and Bristol while the majority of the new deckers have gone. A lot more breakdowns recently due to the age of some of the buses.
 
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My money's on them being suspended indefinitely - i can't see them coming back once all the Coronavirus restrictions are lifted.
Agreed, the fact they're not even bringing in a limited timetable surely says something. Likewise with the X17, 275, 280 and 287.
These routes (and the whole West Lothian question) may be the least of the transport industry's problems once restrictions are lifted.
I don't think you can read much into the present decisions. Although the companies claim they have taken usage over the past few days into account that may not be a reflection of the normal demand on each route. As others mentioned, there were few passengers last week and virtually none expected for the next few weeks. Services are not running for the benefit of discretionary fare-payers. People are being told not to travel unless essential and that they should stay clear of public transport where possible. Travel patterns in 'peace time' could be very different and more/less suitable for each operator. Not wishing to spread panic but we can't know what will emerge from the 'lockdown' event, or how routes might be chosen/distributed in future.

Did I mention other threads?
Well, ....
the Transdev/Connexions and this one are especially prone
 
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What improvements in West Lothian. Services and fares tweaks but buses have got older with second hand buses from Glasgow and Bristol while the majority of the new deckers have gone. A lot more breakdowns recently due to the age of some of the buses.
WL have lost about 20 55/57 deckers and 10 66 plate MMCs replaced by about 20 63/64 plate streetlites and about 10ish 55-56 plate B7RLEs so theres not really any downgrades
 

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