West Lothian buses

[kje7812]

Yeah, i just got the E-mail as well
Interesting to note:
Will Ridacards be valid on Lothian Country?
Ridacards will valid in the city zone and cityWEST zones only.

Similar to how for ECB it's zone a and b. CityWest covers the bits which Lothian run to anyway: Ratho Station with the 20 and Newbridge and Queensferry with the 63. Just like how the ECB zone B covers the 44 and 26 routes out that side.

 

[Darklord8899]

Similar to how for ECB it's zone a and b. CityWest covers the bits which Lothian run to anyway: Ratho Station for the 20 and NewBridge and Queensferry for the 63. Just like how the ECB zone B covers the 44 and 26 routes out that side.

But the difference is there is also an ECB Ridacard that covers zones c thru f, nothing like that (yet) for the West

....So can you use a Ridacard + 2.70 2 zone fare to travel City Centre - Bathgate ??

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

It does not look like it from the map (although hard to tell) but is the X27/X28 going via the P&R at Riccarton? If it's not, then it's a bit of a dumb decision is it not as it's right next to the road the bus takes.

 

[kje7812]

But the difference is there is also an ECB Ridacard that covers zones c thru f, nothing like that (yet) for the West

....So can you use a Ridacard + 2.70 2 zone fare to travel City Centre - Bathgate ??

It does say 'at present', so maybe sometime soon.

It does not look like it from the map (although hard to tell) but is the X27/X28 going via the P&R at Riccarton? If it's not, then it's a bit of a dumb decision is it not as it's right next to the road the bus takes.

Agreed on both counts, it doesn't look like it is (it's not even highlighted on the map) and it should. Though I suppose it would only be in the country bound direction, as it would add too much to the city bound direction for them to pull in it to the P&R. There is a bus stop next to the garage on the Hermiston side of the road however.

 

[Darklord8899]

It does not look like it from the map (although hard to tell) but is the X27/X28 going via the P&R at Riccarton? If it's not, then it's a bit of a dumb decision is it not as it's right next to the road the bus takes.

According to the timetable the stop is
Hermiston, Heriot Watt pathway,
And not the P+R
I suspect the detour via P+R could potentially add a disproportionate amount of time to the journey times

 

[overthewater]

There is alot of complaints on the Facebook page about the fact the day tickets are the same price as First and there is no weekly tickets. YES if your traveling into Edinburgh and using other bus service it will be better to get a LCB ticket but if your not and just going to City centre and also traveling around West Lothian its better to stick with First.

Simple fact is people were expecting lower day ticket price, because why not? I still believe First has the upper hand and the only reason to switch to LCB is out of pure spite or you wish to travel to the Gyle.

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

I think adding a couple of minutes when the P&R can be used as an interchange point for folks getting off the 25, 34, 35 etc plus as I said, those parking their cars as some won't want to drive in to Livingston etc.. It would not make THAT big a difference in journey time surely.

 

[overthewater]

Lothian Country Our fares are set to ensure the service is commercially viable

So First are not overcharging its customers then...

 

[Darklord8899]

I think adding a couple of minutes when the P&R can be used as an interchange point for folks getting off the 25, 34, 35 etc plus as I said, those parking their cars as some won't want to drive in to Livingston etc.. It would not make THAT big a difference in journey time surely.

I agree it would make sense to have stop in the P+R, however, I think at certain times of the day, it would add a significant amount of time.

Look at the Corn Exchange, in terms of distance over the whole route length, the difference between going straight down Chesser Ave and going via Corn Exchange is not that significant, yet that little section can add up to 8 minutes to a journey, which is a significant amount of time.

I know that is different situation, but I think that is why the decision was made to omit the P+R.

 

[overthewater]

Other reason is most students are used to getting on at the pathway, so Lothian knows its could be a compete an utter waste of time..

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Despite all the protest it could be the beginning of something new for Lothian, with enough marketing and more importantly good value, I know folk are complaining about the fares but they are getting good travel for their buck, plus how else would they expect the fare system to go down? I’d much rather travel with Lothian if I can use my ticket all around the city. once folk realise that it’ll become clear who the winner is.

Travel from Dunbar to Whitburn would be £9 return and that would only be 3 Buses. it’s good value like that (you get the idea)

Hopefully folk will warm up and give Lothian support for trying something new. If that works out we could see new routes in the works, like a more direct Edinburgh - Whitburn service, a Edinburgh - Linlithgow service and heck maybe see the 20/63 coverted over to 120/163

 

[Darklord8899]

....I'm fairly sure the Ratho-Gyle section of the 20 and the 63 are council tenders so wouldn't expect any changes soon (unless registrations can be switched from LB to LCB) .... not sure of the ins and outs of the process

 

[sam120]

Despite all the protest it could be the beginning of something new for Lothian, with enough marketing and more importantly good value, I know folk are complaining about the fares but they are getting good travel for their buck, plus how else would they expect the fare system to go down? I’d much rather travel with Lothian if I can use my ticket all around the city. once folk realise that it’ll become clear who the winner is.

Travel from Dunbar to Whitburn would be £9 return and that would only be 3 Buses. it’s good value like that (you get the idea)

Hopefully folk will warm up and give Lothian support for trying something new. If that works out we could see new routes in the works, like a more direct Edinburgh - Whitburn service, a Edinburgh - Linlithgow service and heck maybe see the 20/63 coverted over to 120/163

wouldn’t be surprised, it would make them more money!

one of my hair-brained ideas was have the old 45 route From Riccarton to Gogarburn reinstated as a Lothian country service, then out through Kirkliston and into Linlithgow, don’t think it would see much profit but you never know!

 

[tbtc]

Several weeks on from the announcement, I’m still unsure what Lothian are up to in West Lothian. I’m beginning to think the new management have lost the plot a bit – they just seem to be hyperactive at the moment, firing off in all directions. They must realise that they’ve chosen far tougher opposition than First in Midlothian or East Lothian – Livingston is far from a basket case

Things I don't understand about this:

• The need to attack. It's not as if this is retaliation for First encroaching into Edinburgh - e.g. the days of First running in Fife/Ayrshire as a tool to get Stagecoach out of Glasgow - the days of LRT running to West Lothian as a tool to get First to reduce their "City" network.
• The timing. Why wait until First are actually tidying up their network? There are pros/cons with the "new" First services in West Lothian, but at least it looks like a leaner/ simpler network - any other time in the past five/ten years would have seen Lothian fighting against a rag-bag operation. Seems strange to wait until First are upping their game and then attack.
• The infrequent services. If you want to move into new territory the obvious way would be focussing on one flagship route and flood it with buses (like First with the 56 in Fife, or the 11 in Ayrshire). But three services, two of which only run every hour, seems almost half hearted. Instead of running out to Bathgate/ Whitburn and running two services that are only hourly (and the third service only half hourly), I'd keep it simpler, go for a couple of higher frequency services and not go west of Deans/ Livingston in the first instance.
• The end-game. Is there an end point here? Taking over the entire West Lothian operation would be a huge undertaking - and First are bound to try to invade bits of Edinburgh before they surrender - do Lothian have the stomach for a five year fight? It's not like there's a half way house (e.g. First surrendered Dalkeith without Lothian having to take the fight into the Borders). I can't see any compromise (either Lothian's short attention span means they give up or First abandon the area).

...but apart from that...

 

[goldisgood]

From the beginning of this I'd thought that having one route running every 30 minutes would make more sense than the X27/X28 arrangement. At any point where the routes split, First offer at least double the frequency. I don't think that these routes will work out in the long term - the 275 may.
Could a Whitburn - Blackburn - Kirkton Campus - Livingston - Mid Calder - Edinburgh service running every 30 minutes work, running limited stop from Sighthill using West Approach Road? It would serve the towns/villages without a train service which have just lost their direct link to Edinburgh, and provides a faster route than First originally provided. Take this through Mid Calder on one route which matches First's frequency, then make prices competitive and you have a route that may have a future. I'm unsure if this would be used for journeys between Whitburn and Edinburgh, as it would take a while, although around half an hour less than First's service currently takes. Do people commute from Whitburn and Blackburn by bus? It would be slightly more attractive than the X23 as it cuts a few minutes going along West Approach Road (I think? I'm using current bus times, and the 30 looks to be faster along here than the 27 through Dalry) - make it cheaper and people will probably use it. At least this would get some Livingston-Edinburgh traffic if it doesn't get much from Whitburn and Blackburn. Thoughts on this? I don't know the area at all so this could be completely nonsensical idea.

 

[overthewater]

Despite all the protest it could be the beginning of something new for Lothian, with enough marketing and more importantly good value, I know folk are complaining about the fares but they are getting good travel for their buck, plus how else would they expect the fare system to go down? I’d much rather travel with Lothian if I can use my ticket all around the city. once folk realise that it’ll become clear who the winner is.

Travel from Dunbar to Whitburn would be £9 return and that would only be 3 Buses. it’s good value like that (you get the idea)

Hopefully folk will warm up and give Lothian support for trying something new. If that works out we could see new routes in the works, like a more direct Edinburgh - Whitburn service, a Edinburgh - Linlithgow service and heck maybe see the 20/63 coverted over to 120/163

It's clear your a Lothian flag waver but the simple fact is you're not seeing the bigger picture or why people are not happy. I get the feeling you believe these people should be grateful for Lothian coming to West lothian no matter how bad offering is, The simple truth is what Lothian country buses is offering is crap, the fares are nothing special and routes are so uninspiring, it really does prove the utter pompous attitude they have at the moment. You used to be able to travel from Dunbar to Whitburn for around the same price and you only need 2 buses, when First run the services. How many people in West Lothian are really traveling into city central and and going elsewhere? I do know there is one such route which if done right would making a killing Edinburgh north - Ingilston P&R - ??? The Car Traffic proves this and yet nothing has never been done about this...

Things I don't understand about this:

• The need to attack. It's not as if this is retaliation for First encroaching into Edinburgh - e.g. the days of First running in Fife/Ayrshire as a tool to get Stagecoach out of Glasgow - the days of LRT running to West Lothian as a tool to get First to reduce their "City" network.
• The timing. Why wait until First are actually tidying up their network? There are pros/cons with the "new" First services in West Lothian, but at least it looks like a leaner/ simpler network - any other time in the past five/ten years would have seen Lothian fighting against a rag-bag operation. Seems strange to wait until First are upping their game and then attack.
• The infrequent services. If you want to move into new territory the obvious way would be focussing on one flagship route and flood it with buses (like First with the 56 in Fife, or the 11 in Ayrshire). But three services, two of which only run every hour, seems almost half hearted. Instead of running out to Bathgate/ Whitburn and running two services that are only hourly (and the third service only half hourly), I'd keep it simpler, go for a couple of higher frequency services and not go west of Deans/ Livingston in the first instance.
• The end-game. Is there an end point here? Taking over the entire West Lothian operation would be a huge undertaking - and First are bound to try to invade bits of Edinburgh before they surrender - do Lothian have the stomach for a five year fight? It's not like there's a half way house (e.g. First surrendered Dalkeith without Lothian having to take the fight into the Borders). I can't see any compromise (either Lothian's short attention span means they give up or First abandon the area).

...but apart from that...

You have some great points and its good to see other have notice the problems with what LCB are doing. I do get the feeling First know Lothian were about to coming knocking and it finally had an opportunity to overhaul the network. There has been some people in the Livingston depot that have been trying to overhaul the network for years but certain old dinosaurs always caused troubles to stop it happening. Well Played First, its outsmarted Lothian and it has caught them on the hop, who are now playing catch up. I bet they expect to competing against the old crappy network and not this superior one. The infrequent and mystery tour the routes take dont help matters, Can the 27/28 really survive on School kids from Craigshill to a high school or normal passengers from Craigshill to Bathgate? Every other passenger on that route has a much quicker and more direct route with First for the same price. I really do hope First take a stand and kick Lothian out... They have become so SMUG it's beyond a joke now... Wilkinson has council service No40 so just incase anyone points that out..

From the beginning of this I'd thought that having one route running every 30 minutes would make more sense than the X27/X28 arrangement. At any point where the routes split, First offer at least double the frequency. I don't think that these routes will work out in the long term - the 275 may.
Could a Whitburn - Blackburn - Kirkton Campus - Livingston - Mid Calder - Edinburgh service running every 30 minutes work, running limited stop from Sighthill using West Approach Road? It would serve the towns/villages without a train service which have just lost their direct link to Edinburgh, and provides a faster route than First originally provided. Take this through Mid Calder on one route which matches First's frequency, then make prices competitive and you have a route that may have a future. I'm unsure if this would be used for journeys between Whitburn and Edinburgh, as it would take a while, although around half an hour less than First's service currently takes. Do people commute from Whitburn and Blackburn by bus? It would be slightly more attractive than the X23 as it cuts a few minutes going along West Approach Road (I think? I'm using current bus times, and the 30 looks to be faster along here than the 27 through Dalry) - make it cheaper and people will probably use it. At least this would get some Livingston-Edinburgh traffic if it doesn't get much from Whitburn and Blackburn. Thoughts on this? I don't know the area at all so this could be completely nonsensical idea.

Your come up a much better idea, and could have provide something different. Yes people really do commute from Whitburn and Blackburn by bus to Edinburgh, and this idea would have been a game changer. Actually isn't this old First D26 and D27 route? Because of this your never be given a job at LCB........

 

[90019]

Was in Edinburgh yesterday and not seen any of these ex London buses , what routes are they are on?

They can turn up on any of central's routes, but I've mostly seen them out on the 8, 11, 16 and 29 so far.
The 29 seems to be the best place to find them currently, I've seen them out on it almost every day.

 

[overthewater]

wow the complaints keep on coming toward Lothian country who along with the fanboys can't do math.

WOW!! £125 for a 20xday-ticket after the introductory offer when it only costs FirstBus £90 for 28 days. Think I’ll just have to stick with FirstBus then, cos I can at least get one fae Fauldhouse

Who has the cheap ticket? Its so hard isn't it? The day tickets cost the same so again which company is better value?

 

[overthewater]

More gems from the LC facebook page: Bit of maths IE the cost of 20 tickets bundle which you can only use the bus during the week.... What happens come the weekend???

LOTHIAN PRICES:
* 20x Lothian West day tickets = £95.00 - Introductory offer This price increase to £120 shortly afterwards... And does not cover the weekends... First monthly price: £90-93 for 28 days ( covers the weekends)

*20x West lothian Area day tickets = £50 - Introductory offer This price increase to £65 shortly afterwards... And does not cover the weekends... First Monthly price: £60 for 28 days ( Covers the weekends)

*Day ticket from LCB for West Lothian: £5.... its Only £4.50 with First.. or £4 if you buy via the mobile app..

Why cant people understand MATH... Most of these people DON't want to go sitting around on buses all day in Edinburgh.. Infact you still cheaper buying a ONE TICKET.... https://www.one-ticket.co.uk Price £108.00 for £28 days...

Who in their right mind would pay more money.

* I like First Bus

‍♂️ Obviously nothing wrong with some competition, but in the couple years I’ve been communiting they’ve pretty much always turned up minus the odd occasion, and the newer buses with the grey leather seats are nice enough. It’s only the price that’s a bit steep but according to these calculations their prices are actually not too bad after all.

* Well at those prices, I shall be sticking with first bus!! Even the “introductory offer” is more expensive than the current first bus service on offer!! For it to take that long to come up with a pricing structure, it’s no wonder it was kept a secret for so long!! #failed_at_maths?!

* Fares for Edinburgh to Livingston are either the same price or more expensive. It’s not very competitive. Depends on the stops as to whether it’ll be worth it or not but looks like it won’t matter which I use First or Lothian.

* Was looking forward to getting the Country buses, but looks like I’m still cheaper with Firstbus

* No any cheaper tan first bus Lothian Country Our fares are set to ensure the service is commercially viable.

* Very disappointed in your zones to be honest. I can use First bus from Broxburn to Drum Brae (which would technically be within your City Zone) and it’s only £2.40 yet with yourselves, going through the same similar 3 zones it would be £3.70? How is that providing better services to the paying public?

* £7.50 for a day ticket is pretty steep. Was planning to use the Broxburn to tram stop and then to shandwick place. But at this cost it’s still Cheaper to use the park and ride.
# Aye me too - need to do some calculations tonight to work out my cheapest options!

* Sorry lothian country you seriously need to go back to the drawing board the fares are not competitive and not value for money up against your parent company superb fare structure either think again or just leave us with first bus as that's we're my business will be staying

* I get services need to be viable but can’t see how that’s going to work by charging more than the already established operator in the area. I so wanted to support your venture but financially it just doesn’t make sense. Only viable if you have the customers to make it viable.

* I’m only £93 a month for a first bus

* Mega disappointed was hoping you guys were going to be better value than First buses £90.10 such a shame, I so wanted to believe in Lothian

* Lothian Country thank you for replying back, your a star for trying, to put it simply, I just can’t afford an extra £30 a month on top of what I already pay to First bus, as I said before thank you for coming to the county and trying to make a difference, your customer service is gold star x

* This is disappointing to hear. As a regular commuter these prices are far higher than i currently pay first bus and as commuters we are able to buy 4 weekly and annual tickets. Unfortunately this means i wont be using Lothian Country as i suspect may be the case for many regular commuters. This is greatly disappointing as many of us have long wished for Lothian to come this way. I expected that the fares would be higher than in the city however i am surprised that they are higher than First Bus. Hopefully this decision may be reconsidered as you will likely face having lost a number of customers before you have even begun

 

[smtglasgow]

Things I don't understand about this:

• The need to attack. It's not as if this is retaliation for First encroaching into Edinburgh - e.g. the days of First running in Fife/Ayrshire as a tool to get Stagecoach out of Glasgow - the days of LRT running to West Lothian as a tool to get First to reduce their "City" network.
• The timing. Why wait until First are actually tidying up their network? There are pros/cons with the "new" First services in West Lothian, but at least it looks like a leaner/ simpler network - any other time in the past five/ten years would have seen Lothian fighting against a rag-bag operation. Seems strange to wait until First are upping their game and then attack.
• The infrequent services. If you want to move into new territory the obvious way would be focussing on one flagship route and flood it with buses (like First with the 56 in Fife, or the 11 in Ayrshire). But three services, two of which only run every hour, seems almost half hearted. Instead of running out to Bathgate/ Whitburn and running two services that are only hourly (and the third service only half hourly), I'd keep it simpler, go for a couple of higher frequency services and not go west of Deans/ Livingston in the first instance.
• The end-game. Is there an end point here? Taking over the entire West Lothian operation would be a huge undertaking - and First are bound to try to invade bits of Edinburgh before they surrender - do Lothian have the stomach for a five year fight? It's not like there's a half way house (e.g. First surrendered Dalkeith without Lothian having to take the fight into the Borders). I can't see any compromise (either Lothian's short attention span means they give up or First abandon the area).

Great post. My comments about this aren’t meant to be anti-Lothian – I still think that the bread-and-butter city network (and ECB) are excellent. But I keep coming back to the one question about West Lothian: why? If the intension is to push First out and become the dominant operator, then that takes time and a lot of money. If not, then what *is* the point?

Also, does anyone know why Lothian haven’t introduced Ridacards to ECB or West Lothian. Those m-ticket bundles are fine if you work part-time, but I’d expect most commuters are more familiar with the standard 28 day season ticket. Is there some technical reason why they can’t introduce a range of Ridacards in the different zones?

 

[tbtc]

Great post. My comments about this aren’t meant to be anti-Lothian – I still think that the bread-and-butter city network (and ECB) are excellent. But I keep coming back to the one question about West Lothian: why? If the intension is to push First out and become the dominant operator, then that takes time and a lot of money. If not, then what *is* the point?

Also, does anyone know why Lothian haven’t introduced Ridacards to ECB or West Lothian. Those m-ticket bundles are fine if you work part-time, but I’d expect most commuters are more familiar with the standard 28 day season ticket. Is there some technical reason why they can’t introduce a range of Ridacards in the different zones?

I should have maybe explained in my post that I'm generally very pro-Lothian - I grew up with them - I was worried in the early days of the Millennium that they were losing the fight for Edinburgh (back when they could only cobble together second hand Leyland Nationals, First were flooding the Lothians with low floor buses - admittedly cheap Darts with a life expectancy of the average Leeds United manager).

However, Lothian at the moment seem to be restless, too little to worry about, instead of the careful expansion they've had in previous years (dipping their toes into new markets, gradually increasing frequencies and extending the hours of operation) they are taking on everything at once - expansion into East Lothian ought to be a big enough task, dealing with the tram and the new Midlothian train stations (which will both reduce demand for conventional bus services), dealing with the expansion of Edinburgh (e.g. Shawfair), dealing with the general problems that the bus industry is experiencing in every other city etc.

But this isn't enough for them so they are launching a new coaching division, quadrupling the number of "Airport" branded services, starting an unprovoked attack on West Lothian (over twenty miles away), tinkering with long established services (e.g. 35)... like they are lighter bored or desperate to secure some kind of legacy before the political situation moves the goalposts.

I don't get it. Like you say, it's going to take a long time to kick First out of West Lothian, I'm not sure that it'll be worth much struggle (Livingston is a fragmented town, not natural bus territory, the train has taken most of the long distance market, it's not as if First are treating West Lothian as a flagship area which suggests that margins aren't much to write home about).

The only other motive I can find is that they need the bus network to expand before the tram takes a chunk out of the lucrative Leith market in the medium term - knowing how the tram has decimated markets like Hillsborough - Sheffield City Centre, I can see the tram taking dozens of buses per hour off Leith Walk. But that's really something for the main "Lothian" thread...

 

[overthewater]

Its been suggested those nice X99 are bringing in ££££ and its bankrolling the company big time.

 

[MrHopefull]

Its been suggested those nice X99 are bringing in ££££ and its bankrolling the company big time.

defo big money

 

[Hophead]

Its been suggested those nice X99 are bringing in ££££ and its bankrolling the company big time.

I'm sorry: I don't understand - what does this mean please? I know Edinburgh as an occasional tourist, but not in enough detail to understand every route.

 

[kje7812]

I'm sorry: I don't understand - what does this mean please? I know Edinburgh as an occasional tourist, but not in enough detail to understand every route.

https://www.lothianbuses.com/timetables/cruiselink-x99/

 

[goldisgood]

Whilst Livingston and some of the surrounding towns/villages have the train, Livingston is a big town. Buses to Livingston South aren't great, with buses or cycling to Livingston North the best way for passengers to get to Edinburgh/Glasgow by public transport. But not all buses go to Livingston North, and the town centre isn't directly served by any station. There should be a decent market for the different areas of Livingston into Edinburgh, which isn't too far by bus.
The X27/X28 only seem to serve a small market section. Bathgate to Edinburgh? People won't really use a bus here with the fast and frequent train, let along one that crawls all around Livingston. People won't use this from Bathgate to Livingston, neither for Livingston to Edinburgh - First run a more frequent 25 running directly into Livingston from Bathgate, the more frequent 26/27 from Deans North/Craigshill to Livingston and the faster/more frequent X23/23 from Livingston, Mid Calder, East Calder and Kirknewton - so where does this leave the X27/X28? Not many people will use the bus between Bathgate, Livingston and Edinburgh exclusively. Lothian may get lucky with people using it from the north east of Livingston, and possibly Dedridge but will many other places use the services? I'm doubtful. These routes aren't a great idea for the most part. They won't fill a double decker from just the 'suburbs' of Livingston, will they?
On the other hand, the 275 is a pretty decent idea. It's a unique connection, but is the demand there for double deckers? The slightly similar 21A has ran hourly with single deckers - half hourly with double deckers? I doubt that they are needed, and the capacity could probably be better used elsewhere on the LB network.
The basic idea is there, but past that it's not great. Lothian should be looking to fill the gaps where the train and First don't fill, like the route I suggested, Whitburn - Livingston - Edinburgh direct every 30 minutes (Full Post #195). This would fill a gap which First have made that doesn't have the train (Whitburn and Blackburn to Edinburgh), with this route and the 275 providing a local Whitburn - Edinburgh every 15 minutes. This provides unique connections, fills a gap and competes against First where they don't have the train to worry about. Sounds sensible right?
On top of this, they could run the X28 route just between Deans North and Edinburgh every 30 minutes, which would rival First and provide a link that was lost, where the train doesn't have to be worried about too much. The base idea isn't too bad, it's just executed poorly.
Finally, run the 275 and X28 with single deckers as they will have less demand. Put the nicer refurbished buses on the 43 and new route to Whitburn where double deckers may be needed and then put the ex-43 double deckers onto other routes.
If I did the calculations right, the 275/X28 would need 14 single deckers, and the new route would need 6/7 double deckers. This would use more buses, but it would give better competition to First, and fill in the gaps lost from First and give Lothian a good reputation for stepping in to provide links that would be lost.
X27/X28 - probably won't need double deckers, and won't really be used to Bathgate. Could be run better as just an X28 from Deans North with single deckers, with a fast service to Edinburgh on 'new route'.
275 - nice idea, but again it probably won't need double deckers. Could give buses every 15 minutes Whitburn - Livingston with 'new route'.
'new route' - Whitburn - Livingston spaced evenly with 275, then Livingston - Edinburgh a faster route like I said in my full post for this. Replaces part of X27, runs alongside X28 to rival First's 23/X23 in part, and then with 275 to rival 21/22.
What are Lothian doing? They have managed to screw up this perfectly good idea for a land grab by giving a half-hearted and overambitious, slightly stupid attempt to push First out. If they put a bit more resources in, and looked at what the train and First give then maybe they would see the market gap that First and the train have left behind...

 

[overthewater]

Whilst Livingston and some of the surrounding towns/villages have the train, Livingston is a big town. Buses to Livingston South aren't great, with buses or cycling to Livingston North the best way for passengers to get to Edinburgh/Glasgow by public transport. But not all buses go to Livingston North, and the town centre isn't directly served by any station. There should be a decent market for the different areas of Livingston into Edinburgh, which isn't too far by bus.

Don't forget the new Stagecoach X51 providing an hourly service to Glasgow from Livingston, which gives people easier access. First has now also extend the 26 to the train station to give people a choice instead of the car...

On the other hand, the 275 is a pretty decent idea. It's a unique connection, but is the demand there for double deckers? The slightly similar 21A has ran hourly with single deckers - half hourly with double deckers? I doubt that they are needed, and the capacity could probably be better used elsewhere on the LB network.
The basic idea is there, but past that it's not great. Lothian should be looking to fill the gaps where the train and First don't fill, like the route I suggested, Whitburn - Livingston - Edinburgh direct every 30 minutes (Full Post #195). This would fill a gap which First have made that doesn't have the train (Whitburn and Blackburn to Edinburgh), with this route and the 275 providing a local Whitburn - Edinburgh every 15 minutes. This provides unique connections, fills a gap and competes against First where they don't have the train to worry about. Sounds sensible right?
On top of this, they could run the X28 route just between Deans North and Edinburgh every 30 minutes, which would rival First and provide a link that was lost, where the train doesn't have to be worried about too much. The base idea isn't too bad, it's just executed poorly.
Finally, run the 275 and X28 with single deckers as they will have less demand. Put the nicer refurbished buses on the 43 and new route to Whitburn where double deckers may be needed and then put the ex-43 double deckers onto other routes.

I wouldn't run a bus every 15min to Whitburn because Blue bus is also on the road, The only other passengers for LCB is Craigshill to Bathgate... but how many really traveled on this route?

What are Lothian doing? They have managed to screw up this perfectly good idea for a land grab by giving a half-hearted and overambitious, slightly stupid attempt to push First out. If they put a bit more resources in, and looked at what the train and First give then maybe they would see the market gap that First and the train have left behind...

Its been clear the management at LCB are muppets, The council promised if they is lcb took over the route, the council would go about making improved bus lanes and sorting out the Ryans bar jct.... Whats happened.. nothing has been done. Has the company said anything... No. Worse still the company was warned will in advance of its new years day service to South Queensferry for the Loony docks and what happened? 100's of people were left behide...

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Saw a reply to a comment on Facebook by LC saying that the X27/X28 will stop on Gorgie Road after Balgreen. I assume it’s the Chesser Cottages stop to provide an easy switchover to Gorgie. surprised it wasent announced earlier.

Also one thing I’m not sure on is how does the Ridacard discount work? I know you could get it free as far as Dalmahoy/Newbridge but do you pay 1.70 there to continue into West Lothian or is it beyond the Zone Boundry? I’m planning to test it on my next trip to Livingston

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

Also one thing I’m not sure on is how does the Ridacard discount work? I know you could get it free as far as Dalmahoy/Newbridge but do you pay 1.70 there to continue into West Lothian or is it beyond the Zone Boundry? I’m planning to test it on my next trip to Livingston[/QUOTE]

i think looking at the map you would pay for however many zones you need on top of the card whether its 2.70 or 3.70 single ie 2 or 3 zones.
on another point i was overhearing some talk about lcb getting a place in broxburn industrial est. near volvo?

 

[Darklord8899]

Would certain make sense to get somewhere out west, especially if that's where future expansions lie for LCB.