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West Lothian buses

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Missing runs not solely down to no drivers ,it can be down to no fit bus to get out depot on time for service .many a time have seen drivers reporting in plenty time for work only to be told to take a seat as there's no available bus to be allocated .often only when school journeys return back to depot that's when a bus will become available .
 
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RailUK Forums

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Yes, the dropping service runs for school runs, used to get a lot of that myself. Need to lessen the load on school work if is a regular occurrence. I would hope it is happening less now.
 

Anthony ross

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Personally I can’t see why they can’t just unload the school services to a coach operator and put the buses on to normal stage carriage work
 

overthewater

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Personally I can’t see why they can’t just unload the school services to a coach operator and put the buses on to normal stage carriage work

What a silly comment, These contracts help generate much needed income for the company. On top of that especial with the Falkirk and Fife area First has managed to bag alot of school work. Get rid of them and your would have lose 30 - 40 buses.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Been looking at potential sites for the Newbridge depot and my friend has suggested that perhaps it's behind Batley's Cash and Carry. There's a massive gap site there that could fit at least 150 buses, if not more
 

Driver362

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It’s the old 3663 yard , right across from DPD parcels , with 3 tridents sitting blocking entry points
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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It’s the old 3663 yard , right across from DPD parcels , with 3 tridents sitting blocking entry points
Will need to check it out when I next visit sports car breakers, The only 3663 site I can find is beyond the low bridge which would be a strange place to have it
 

Driver362

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It’s directly over from DPD parcels mate follow road as if going to Wilkinson DPD is on the left new depot being built on the right there are 3 tridents sitting in the yard ,
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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It’s directly over from DPD parcels mate follow road as if going to Wilkinson DPD is on the left new depot being built on the right there are 3 tridents sitting in the yard ,
Ah yea. So on the right straight after the 1st bridge that carries the Falkirk line which would be opposite DPD and the Scottish Ambulance Centre
 

90019

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That seems an odd place to choose given how bad the traffic is for the majority of the day going towards the Newbridge roundabout from that direction.
 

alchemy

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674 is showing there on the bus tracker but it's the only one showing. Maybe the other two are withdrawn or stored
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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674 is showing there on the bus tracker but it's the only one showing. Maybe the other two are withdrawn or stored
From the main road I saw 2 of them. The third should be by the gate which isn't visible from the main road.

All 3 are withdrawn, It's just that 674 has kept its AVL. I think the reason the 3 are there may be insurance reasons, ie they wouldn't pay out unless something is there, the tridents are redundant anyway.

I don't criticise the fact there will be a depot in Newbridge, I think it is quite far up the main road though
 

Driver362

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Afraid I have to respectfully disagree livi man , it’s for Lothian country and coaches , Flybe your spot on in both counts tridents were striped of anything of value , they for some reason not removed the AVL from 674 , I believe there is to be another location in addition to new bridge , presumably somewhere deeper into West Lothian, , location unknown at this time
 

goldisgood

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Afraid I have to respectfully disagree livi man , it’s for Lothian country and coaches , Flybe your spot on in both counts tridents were striped of anything of value , they for some reason not removed the AVL from 674 , I believe there is to be another location in addition to new bridge , presumably somewhere deeper into West Lothian, , location unknown at this time
IF First withdraw, which I think is unlikely in the near future, would Lothian consider taking over Livi depot?
 

Driver362

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I think they would-rather have a location of there own from what you here , but who knows?
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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IF First withdraw, which I think is unlikely in the near future, would Lothian consider taking over Livi depot?
A big clue to Lothian potentially looking at taking Livi should First pull out is the type of depot they end up with in West Lothian. I think if it comes across as a rather temporary site then Lothian are clearly looking at Livi eventually. Besides that I can't see there being any other obvious clues. What I will say is it's got quite good facilities (better than Musselburgh when ECB took it), Seafield and Marine are just along the road whereas Livi is very much by itself, Yes Newbridge will also be reachable but that depends on how big LMC gets too. I think it would happen if First pull out, purely on the basis that it has the right facilities and because it'd be good to have a depot in West Lothian that means buses don't always have to be sent back to Edinburgh.

Slightly off West Lothian but relevant to Lothian Country, But when Newbridge opens does anyone else think they'll move the 43 to there, I can see it happening as the 43 has got quite a few dead runs on it with it running out of Central (the first few runs to SQ at 4.30, 5 and 5.30 (even one or two after that tbh) plus the first 2 or 3 and the last 2 to SAS at 11pm and 12am). There really can't be a need for these runs other than to avoid dead mileage, This is what makes me believe the 43 could move to Newbridge. The only counter argument I can think of is the traffic on the spur road at peak times could be an issue when heading to SQ. I do wonder if that did happen whether or not the 63 would move to LC
 

Driver362

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Hi Flybe , a very good post with good points made ,one of the considerations is driver changeovers rest breaks etc and the dead mileage running about the place in vans , we did here the 43’s may be staying at central , but that’s not a set in stone quote , just canteen talk , but running about in vans is more expensive than it appears and all comes out any potential profits
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Hi Flybe , a very good post with good points made ,one of the considerations is driver changeovers rest breaks etc and the dead mileage running about the place in vans , we did here the 43’s may be staying at central , but that’s not a set in stone quote , just canteen talk , but running about in vans is more expensive than it appears and all comes out any potential profits
Yea I suppose when you factor in changeovers it balances out running it from Newbridge, although you could do the changeovers at the new stops at Ferrymuir (beside the new houses and the hotel) which wouldn't make it as bad, ECB drivers on the 104 and X7 have to drive to Duddingston Park as well and it works, the 47 is another good example to use where I believe changeovers happen at Granton. Again I just think It'd better to have all the LC stuff work out of the one place. It's the sort of thing I'm sure will happen over time
 

Darklord8899

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Is the 43 still being run out of Central? I thought it would have moved to Longstone with the rest of LCB?
I would also think that when LCB move to Newbridge the 43 would move as well to keep everything together! No?

Also from Newbridge would give scope to run the odd peak journey to/from Bo'ness? (Not sure if there is a requirement for that, but IIRC when first ran the 43 there were peak journeys to Bo'ness....)
 

Driver362

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Yes it’s still being run from central , not shure if it’s a capacity issue at longstone, would be nice to get them , I enjoyed driving the 43’s when we had them , and yes there was two peak am journeys and two evening to Bo’neas , one even went via blackness manerston , then Bo’ness bus station
 

goldisgood

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In the letter that was released announcing the opening of Newbridge didn't it say that all LC services would run from there?
 

overthewater

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Also from Newbridge would give scope to run the odd peak journey to/from Bo'ness? (Not sure if there is a requirement for that, but IIRC when first ran the 43 there were peak journeys to Bo'ness....)
One of the councils paid for those journeys.

First is staying in Livingston lcb will pull out

That will only happen if LCB continules this bonker policy of crap fares, It would leave umpteen old first driver when made the switch in trouble.
 

Driver362

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I’ve not seen the letter gold is good , I trust you are a fellow employee? That’s just what I’ve heard on the jungle drums my comments are just my opinion not based on hard facts
 

Driver362

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Yeah over the water your quite correct, that I do know to be fact , god knows I’ve driven it plenty times , we had or regulars , also the second one doubled as a rural school bus with the kids that went to queensferry high school ! Happy days !
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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First is staying in Livingston lcb will pull out
I wouldn't place bets on first staying or LC scaling back, If first get to a point where it is too small for a serious amount of profit they will go, as a few have stated previously first will happily walk if it's better for them, LC will run at losses but if it gets rid of first then it's done it's job until that point. Then the business will start to make money. Until phase 3 is unveiled it is difficult to suggest what first may do, As I have suggested there is a strong possibility that the 21 and 22 will go as they are now mostly covered by LC and with small tweaks both are covered entirely and I have never seen a 27 even half full. The hospital throughout all of this is the game changer and it looks to have backfired for first there, wouldn't be surprised if a few get put back in again to try and scale back LC, but it is first so it is unpredictable! When first scaled back around the Lothians many expected EL would follow suit, it infact took 4 years before it finally went, Since 2012 first have pulled out of East Lothian, Midlothian and The Borders, 2 areas of which Lothian replaced the latter by WCM. This could take a matter of months, but it could also take a fair few years. LC will need to change their fares and with contactless that should open up a few more passengers when it does finally get activated. As I've said before I don't think the 'fares' are flawed but more the zones. Why is someone in Ratho Station gonna pay 2.70 to go to the Gyle when on a 20 or 63 it's 1.70, it's things like this where there's some serious flaws, I think dropping the cityWEST zone is the first step to a solution, the only downside to removing that is the 43 would be worked by Lothian
 

overthewater

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What would save a few buses would be to make the 27 every 30mins and retime it with the 24 ( which should go back into Craigshill), while getting rid of the X23 outside peak times. This allow would cut costs but keep the general network going. 21 WILL not be going anywhere since Lothian isn't competing directly with it at the moment.

If First keep the weekly ticket people, First will stay.
 

Tom1791

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Personally I have mixed feelings about the zone system, I like knowing the bus fare before I travel but unfortunately it means short cross boundary journeys can be very expensive.

Personal opinion but I think they should rename the zones 1-6, rather than this ''citywest/countywest" naming which can be confusing for passengers.
Then add another zone between the current city and city West zones and allow travel in 1 or 2 zones for £1.70, 3 zones for £2.70, 4 zones £3.70 and so on (with ridacards valid in zones 1-3)
So:
Zone 1 - Central Edinburgh
Zone 2 - Barnton, Edinburgh Park/Gyle, Sighthill
Zone 3(similar to current countywest zone a) - Queensferry, Newbridge, Kirkliston.

Therefore, it's £1.70 on whichever service between Newbridge and the Gyle and cross-zone journeys are a more reasonable fare. Also the 63 can then be converted to LC and operated out of Newbridge and there won't be any increase in fares from the current £1.70 flat fare.
 

TheEastCoaster

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First is staying in Livingston lcb will pull out

I wouldn’t jump to conclusions just yet. LCB is still relatively new in West Lothian, I can see them holding on, they seem to have the upper hand on many other ways compared to first.

Personally I have mixed feelings about the zone system, I like knowing the bus fare before I travel but unfortunately it means short cross boundary journeys can be very expensive.

Personal opinion but I think they should rename the zones 1-6, rather than this ''citywest/countywest" naming which can be confusing for passengers.
Then add another zone between the current city and city West zones and allow travel in 1 or 2 zones for £1.70, 3 zones for £2.70, 4 zones £3.70 and so on (with ridacards valid in zones 1-3)
So:
Zone 1 - Central Edinburgh
Zone 2 - Barnton, Edinburgh Park/Gyle, Sighthill
Zone 3(similar to current countywest zone a) - Queensferry, Newbridge, Kirkliston.

Therefore, it's £1.70 on whichever service between Newbridge and the Gyle and cross-zone journeys are a more reasonable fare. Also the 63 can then be converted to LC and operated out of Newbridge and there won't be any increase in fares from the current £1.70 flat fare.

That’s not a bad idea actually, especially for the CityWest folk, I agree that paying 2.70 just to go to the gyle from Ratho seems crazy, I mind when they changed the fares on the 113 when folk in Ormiston had to pay 2.70 just to get to Tranent. The locals were unhappy. I assumed it was a ploy to get more folk to buy ridacards (especially with the 43)

They really missed out on a West Lothian ridacard, since the normal one has weekly and monthly options I’m very shocked they haven’t considered it, though as much as folk would want it to be. I doubt they would make it cheaper than firsts. though with contactless coming the following year I think folk would just be as happy with that

I was thinking that they would probably do something with the 20/63 in the future like they did with the 39/40. Maybe this will go along with phase 3? along with another route linking the city and a service to Kirkliston?
 
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