West Midlands Franchise ITT released by DfT

[pemma]

According to Tony Miles an announcement regarding the franchise is expected on Monday but not necessarily an announcement of the award.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I can't see an award to Govia in the current climate.
If the number-crunchers came up with that, it would certainly give DfT a PR problem, having just fined Govia for Southern's performance.
But I imagine Abellio will also be playing hard-ball to make sure they don't get a hospital pass on DOO.

The WM bigwigs will also be signing off part of the deal, like Rail North did for Northern and TPE - eg the new West Midlands Mayor.
DfT will have to get its devolution story right before it signs the local deal.
And then the Treasury will have a view of the affordability of whatever is proposed.
Things have moved on politically since the last franchise award before the election (South Western).

 

[pemma]

If the number-crunchers came up with that, it would certainly give DfT a PR problem, having just fined Govia for Southern's performance.
But I imagine Abellio will also be playing hard-ball to make sure they don't get a hospital pass on DOO.

Maybe a repeat of how they prevented Connex getting TPE after they submitted the best bid?

 

[HH]

Maybe a repeat of how they prevented Connex getting TPE after they submitted the best bid?

Best in what way? Do you mean "cheapest"?

P.S. That was OPRAF wasn't it?

 

[the sniper]

I can't see an award to Govia in the current climate.
If the number-crunchers came up with that, it would certainly give DfT a PR problem, having just fined Govia for Southern's performance.

Maybe the DfT would try to sell it on the basis that it's an extension of London Midland rather than an extension for Govia. London Midland as a franchise is better now than it has ever been before. I think it's fair to say they've made the most of their current extension.

Plus, the DfT is a bad PR machine!

 

[HH]

I think it's fair to say they've made the most of their current extension.

I presume you mean operationally. In other ways they may not be so popular. A bit like Mr Branson...

 

[the sniper]

I presume you mean operationally. In other ways they may not be so popular. A bit like Mr Branson...

Largely, yes.

 

[3141]

Best in what way? Do you mean "cheapest"?

P.S. That was OPRAF wasn't it?

SRA, I think, because I think it was the SRA that decided to remap North Western and Arriva Trains North into Northern and Transpennine Express.

 

[pemma]

Best in what way? Do you mean "cheapest"?

P.S. That was OPRAF wasn't it?

We don't know exactly what Connex included in their bid for the old TPE franchise or exactly what First changed as a result of 'SRA feedback.' However, Arriva's bid was apparently the most costly and the one the SRA rejected first and Connex would have won if it wasn't for First making some revisions.

 

[pemma]

I think it's fair to say they've made the most of their current extension.

Have the 350/1s got new seat covers yet? Even old Northern managed to replace worn out seat covers after saying they wouldn't do anything more than repaint trains, while when the LM franchise was awarded we had the MD saying trains will be replaced or refurbished.

 

[hwl]

According to Tony Miles an announcement regarding the franchise is expected on Monday but not necessarily an announcement of the award.

Sounds like delay and extend again then (heard offline in the last 2 weeks), I've also heard there is lots of drag in the franchising programme at the moment.

 

[XCTurbostar]

We can't be looking at a long franchise extension for Govia then can we?

Thanks,
Ross

 

[Bletchleyite]

No. Though generally the 350/1s are in better condition than any of the ageing rubbish Northern runs, even if the turd has been polished using seat covers and paint. For instance that doesn't solve collapsed seat bases on many 153s and 156s.

 

[sd0733]

Have the 350/1s got new seat covers yet? Even old Northern managed to replace worn out seat covers after saying they wouldn't do anything more than repaint trains, while when the LM franchise was awarded we had the MD saying trains will be replaced or refurbished.

The bases on the /1s have pretty much all been replaced now. They were a complete disgrace though and the blue fabric on a lot of them had totally worn away. They are still scruffy things though as the white coloured carpets look awful as well. They can't get in for a refurb soon enough.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

According to Tony Miles an announcement regarding the franchise is expected on Monday but not necessarily an announcement of the award.

Looks like the announcement is all about HS2.
Chris Grayling was just on Radio 4 but did not get any space to announce anything because of the hostile questioning by John Humphreys on HS2 costs.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well unless theyre going for a back door approach with Govia, they'll need to announce something soon.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[pemma]

Well unless theyre going for a back door approach with Govia, they'll need to announce something soon.

Maybe their trying to get all the media attention on HS2 before announcing anything regarding LM?

If they want to extend the existing franchise they could do worse than say they extended the existing agreement with London & West Midlands Railway Ltd for the London Midland franchise, opposed to mentioning Govia.

 

[CosherB]

Maybe their trying to get all the media attention on HS2 before announcing anything regarding LM?

If they want to extend the existing franchise they could do worse than say they extended the existing agreement with London & West Midlands Railway Ltd for the London Midland franchise, opposed to mentioning Govia.

I think 'hit the nail on the head' applies here!

 

[pemma]

No. Though generally the 350/1s are in better condition than any of the ageing rubbish Northern runs, even if the turd has been polished using seat covers and paint. For instance that doesn't solve collapsed seat bases on many 153s and 156s.

The difference is the 350/1s are used on routes which a lot of people spend a considerable amount of time on and LM directly compete with Virgin and XC on some flows.

I agree that the condition of some of the Northern seats (the same is true of some 150 and 155 seats) but if old Northern could manage to replace seat covers with a relatively low budget there's no excuse for other TOCs not replacing worn out ones.

 

[plcd1]

8 week extension to the franchise has been announced by the DfT.

https://www.go-ahead.com/en/media/news/2017/london-midland-franchise-extension.html

with another 8 weeks possible if activated by mid August.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Well, you can actually read that as Go-ahead & Keolis not winning the West Midlands franchise.

Why would they need an extension if it was Govia that won?

Thanks,
Ross

 

[CentralTrainer]

8 week extension to the franchise has been announced by the DfT.

https://www.go-ahead.com/en/media/news/2017/london-midland-franchise-extension.html

with another 8 weeks possible if activated by mid August.

Some excellent can kicking down the road by the DfT - would they have done this if Govia weren't involved?

 

[CosherB]

Well, you can actually read that as Go-ahead & Keolis not winning the West Midlands franchise.

Why would they need an extension if it was Govia that won?

Thanks,
Ross

How do you come to that conclusion?

 

[ChrisHogan]

Some excellent can kicking down the road by the DfT - would they have done this if Govia weren't involved?

Not necessarily - while waiting for Govia Force Majeure claim to be resolved was one necessary precondition for an award to Govia (now completed), there could be several reasons why the award can't be made immediately to either Govia or Abellio (Treasury agreement; West Midlands Mayor sign-off; or finalising the new rolling stock contracts, all come to mind). This is underlined by a possibility of a further two periods' extension if nothing finalised in the next month.

 

[plcd1]

Well, you can actually read that as Go-ahead & Keolis not winning the West Midlands franchise.

Why would they need an extension if it was Govia that won?

Thanks,
Ross

I understand your point but I think this is more about demonstrating that a full and fair process has been run and appearing to keep both bidders in the running. Perception is key especially with the rumours flying about declining interest in bidding for franchises and possible changes in how DfT manage things (e.g. Times article today on possibly recreating the SRA or son of SRA to more tightly control franchises).

I've no insight at all as to why things are running late. It may be that bidders know who has won but due process has to be followed to secure sign off within government hence the delay. The general election won't have helped things either. Alternatively both bidders may well be "in play" and final details are being thrashed through to determine the winner or it may be very close and one bidder to struggling to secure financing or whatever. The way the economy is wobbling and with other uncertainties anything could be happening to assumptions underlying the bids causing funders and shareholders to question what has been put forward by the respective companies. Anyway wibble flip - have to wait to see what transpires.

 

[pemma]

or finalising the new rolling stock contracts

Not necessarily an issue. The TPE rolling stock contracts weren't finalised until well after First were awarded the franchise and while Arriva planned to use CAF trains the franchise agreement only specifies they have to obtain a certain number of new 100mph capable DMUs and EMUs in 2, 3 and 4 car formations.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Not necessarily an issue. The TPE rolling stock contracts weren't finalised until well after First were awarded the franchise and while Arriva planned to use CAF trains the franchise agreement only specifies they have to obtain a certain number of new 100mph capable DMUs and EMUs in 2, 3 and 4 car formations.

But the bidder for WM would need reasonably firm prices to submit the final bid with the ITT requirement to run a punctual service on CrossCity during the autumn leaf-fall period.

 

[ScotGG]

More ineptness from the DfT

 

[hwl]

8 week delay sounds about right for issues due to the election, also remember that SW franchise was delayed which will have added to the LM franchising delays.Also note the previously announced delays to the following SE franchising. Hence I'm not reading too much into this.

 

[CosherB]

8 week delay sounds about right for issues due to the election, also remember that SW franchise was delayed which will have added to the LM franchising delays.Also note the previously announced delays to the following SE franchising. Hence I'm not reading too much into this.

At last, the voice of reason has spoken! Unlike the winds of insanity that have blown over this thread this morning ....