West Midlands Franchise ITT released by DfT

[tomuk]

153s can't be 2019 compliant without losing too many seats.

I just can't believe that the industry will let 70 vehicles be binned when there is a need for more DMUs and a massive glut of old EMUs.

The 153s will go back to 155s. Fit an accessible toilet in one coach and a quick mod to disable the spare cabs /sort out the vestibules

 

[Mordac]

Why does the LM diesel fleet need replacing?

The 172s are only six years old and the 170s aren't much older.

They only need a few extra units to replace the 150s which I thought were going to be 153s.

They don't need any extra units for the extra Shrewsburys as the current stopper is usually a 2x 170s and is mostly empty.

If it was me I would take on the 172s from LO and Chiltern. Release a few 170s back to Chiltern for conversion to 168s.

You would end up as follows:
153s - Coventry- Nuneaton/Leamington, Blecthley-Bedford
170s - Shrewsbury - Birmingham, Hereford/Worcester-Birmingham
172s - Snowhill Lines

I agree that the 170s and 172s are fine for remaining, but the Sprinters need to go. 15x replacement plus growth is essential for the diesel fleet. If we can get something to replace the Turbostars allowing their cascade elsewhere, that's a bonus, but hardly essential.

 

[KashmireHawker]

170's and 172's being part of the next franchise should be of no choice - just upgrade them with WiFi, power sockets and some carriage extensions, we'd have an improved service across the board. If EG the 172's were extended, I think they'd do a jobsworth between Brum and Redditch. Anything along with the rumoured 195's would be a major bonus.

Any clue as to who has/may have won? If it is Abellio, then new stock was probably left, right and centre top of the agenda considering The Times article in May.

 

[ChrisHogan]

Network Rail appear to have leaked that the next LM franchise will increase the size of their fleet by 137 carriages.



https://www.networkrailmediacentre....y-boost-with-more-trains-and-better-hs2-links

Hardly leaked out! It was published by the DfT along with the ITT in the Stakeholder Briefing last September.

 

[Mordac]

170's and 172's being part of the next franchise should be of no choice - just upgrade them with WiFi, power sockets and some carriage extensions, we'd have an improved service across the board. If EG the 172's were extended, I think they'd do a jobsworth between Brum and Redditch. Anything along with the rumoured 195's would be a major bonus.

Any clue as to who has/may have won? If it is Abellio, then new stock was probably left, right and centre top of the agenda considering The Times article in May.

Latest rumours have Abellio winning it I believe.

 

[ChrisHogan]

They don't need any extra units for the extra Shrewsburys as the current stopper is usually a 2x 170s and is mostly empty.

The extra Shrewsburys are only off-peak. The peak hour LM service is 2tph so the units that berth at Tyseley between peaks will be out all day.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Latest rumours have Abellio winning it I believe.

An internal LM source I have has informed me of this too.

Thanks,
Ross

 

[KashmireHawker]

An internal LM source I have has informed me of this too.

Thanks,
Ross

Excellent - hope the announcement is sooner rather than later

 

[HH]

An internal LM source I have has informed me of this too.

Thanks,
Ross

And I have it via a certain department. I wonder if Jamie Burles will take the MD's job; his wife is a Director at East Midlands, so it must be more convenient than living in East Anglia. And that would also explain Mike Kean becoming deputy MD at EA.

 

[Morgsie]

What are the benefits of extending a Brum to Wolves service to Crewe via Stone, Stoke and Kidsgrove?

Sometimes I have to travel from Stoke to Wolverhampton and Birmingham for Liberal Democrat meetings and I normally get the XC service. When the the XC Franchise is up for a renewal and there is a thread on here about I will raise an issue. But anyway back to this proposed service, what are the timings for this service?

If an announcement is imminent then any news if Baralston or Wedgewood is reopening as part of the Franchise?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

What are the benefits of extending a Brum to Wolves service to Crewe via Stone, Stoke and Kidsgrove?

Allows the Crewe to Euston to run via Madeley vice Stoke. Also arguably gives Stone direct access to its nearest large market [Wolves / Birmingham].

 

[KashmireHawker]

What are the benefits of extending a Brum to Wolves service to Crewe via Stone, Stoke and Kidsgrove?

Sometimes I have to travel from Stoke to Wolverhampton and Birmingham for Liberal Democrat meetings and I normally get the XC service. When the the XC Franchise is up for a renewal and there is a thread on here about I will raise an issue. But anyway back to this proposed service, what are the timings for this service?

If an announcement is imminent then any news if Baralston or Wedgewood is reopening as part of the Franchise?

DfT's schedule has the XC contest in essence beginning at the end of the year, with bidders and ITT being known by October 2018.

Only things route wise on WM is that the Times article from May referred that they might somehow link Manchester to it, but more local routes being reopened would be very ideal

 

[ChrisHogan]

Sometimes I have to travel from Stoke to Wolverhampton and Birmingham for Liberal Democrat meetings and I normally get the XC service. When the the XC Franchise is up for a renewal and there is a thread on here about I will raise an issue. But anyway back to this proposed service, what are the timings for this service?

If an announcement is imminent then any news if Baralston or Wedgewood is reopening as part of the Franchise?

I imagine it will have to be the xx39 from New Street that's extended as the one on the other half-hour would be run down by the Virgin Scottish service.

ITT requires the bidders to come up with proposals to serve Barlaston and Wedgwood.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Hardly leaked out! It was published by the DfT along with the ITT in the Stakeholder Briefing last September.

Indeed, see page 19 here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/553776/west-midland-stakeholder-briefing-document-and-consultation-response.pdf

We are requiring additional carriages/vehicles to be introduced so that more frequent services or longer trains can be provided on some routes. It includes providing extra capacity equivalent to:

* 27 extra vehicles in December 2018
* 24 extra vehicles in December 2019
* 60 extra vehicles in December 2021
* 26 extra vehicles in December 2022

 

[speedy_sticks]

Indeed, see page 19 here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/553776/west-midland-stakeholder-briefing-document-and-consultation-response.pdf

We are talking about Extra units here, so the the new stock to replace like for like unit numbers for both EMU's and DMU's could be higher because of replacement of Sprinter and maybe other diesel stock, plus the replacement for the Class 350/2 units.

 

[KashmireHawker]

An explore on Companies House by the way shows Abellio have known since about July 20th they had got it in the bag; movements made within the 2 companies related to the Franchise.

Think I am also right in saying that that the 137 "viachles" as referred to in the National Rail press release linked above are new carriages or sets?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Latest rumours have Abellio winning it I believe.

If it is...can we have a follow-on order of IC FLIRTs for the Crewe and Liverpool services? I doubt I will ever use VT again if they do, particularly if First Class is 2+1 and good value.]

Oh, and *absolutely no* 3+2 seated Aventras, or indeed anything else with 3+2. We just don't like that on the south WCML, and it is not necessary.

 

[Agent_Squash]

So there go some of the many rumours about Govia getting LM again as a ‘reward’ for doing the DfT’s dirty work on GTR...

 

[Bletchleyite]

So there go some of the many rumours about Govia getting LM again as a ‘reward’ for doing the DfT’s dirty work on GTR...

An interesting question is whether there will be any attempt at DOO on LM, at least the WCML services...I suspect not, I think fingers have been royally burnt.

 

[Agent_Squash]

An interesting question is whether there will be any attempt at DOO on LM, at least the WCML services...I suspect not, I think fingers have been royally burnt.

The Northern bidders refused to commit to pure DOO after the Southern fiasco... now that DCO is causing headaches, I think DOO will be hiding for a while.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Abellio equals bad news IMO.
Just my personal views however

 

[tbtc]

Why does the LM diesel fleet need replacing?

I'm not saying that it (all) needs replacing and I'm not getting carried away with rumours about what will be in the wining bid of the unknown bidder...

...BUT, there's a number of TOCs that could do with some 150s/ 170s to supplement those that they already operate... the fleet of 172s would be suited to various urban operations (Valley Lines?)...

...and sometimes it's easier to give one TOC a new fleet and use them to cascade compatible stock around other TOCs.

I'm not saying that this *will* happen, but there's some logic in giving LM new toys and then sharing the old ones around may be more efficient than getting GWR/ W&B/ LM/ Northern to all order small fleets of additional DMUs to deal with capacity increases and the lack of committed electrification (plus Pacer withdrawal in Wales).

(you could even come up with a convoluted cascade where LM 170s go to Chiltern to release 165s to GWR.or LM170s to Chiltern to allow loco-haulage to be replaced by six coach DMUs etc etc)

An interesting question is whether there will be any attempt at DOO on LM, at least the WCML services...I suspect not, I think fingers have been royally burnt.

If we are talking about new stock for LM (whether EMU or DMU) then it'll come with future-proof DOO-capabilities which will give the Unions the opportunity to justify a stroke, should they wish.

The fact that the TOC may have no current plans to move to DOO might not be sufficient to stop talk of a strike, since the TOC can't guarantee things beyond the end of their contract.

 

[AndyW33]

If EG the 172's were extended, I think they'd do a jobsworth between Brum and Redditch.

Why on earth would the next franchisee want to use 172s to Redditch, which is fully electrified? Perhaps you had some other place in mind, but it isn't at all obvious which.

 

[ah-media]

Confirmed to the Stock Exchange at 0715 that Abellio have won the franchise

 

[pemma]

This thread would be best closed now the winner has been announced.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=151904