West Midlands Trains Class 323 refurbishment

[Spirit555]

Agreed the 323s are still good units underneath it all after all these years.

Considering the dim and dismal present-day state of the unit fitted with the experimental LED lighting - is it 207 ? - I'm quite glad they haven't gone that route since it doesn't get maintained ! I did notice that they've retained the existing luminaires in the refresh bodge job, but I do hope they might have put these new "fluorescent compatible" LED strips inside them.

The experimental LED one is 323205 and It has quite a few lights not working at ll these days. Poorly maintained is right. The lights did adjust to start with but its difficult in normal daylight to see any effect. At night the more people in the carriage the brighter the lighting becomes.

 

[Nick Leverton]

The experimental LED one is 323205 and It has quite a few lights not working at ll these days. Poorly maintained is right. The lights did adjust to start with but its difficult in normal daylight to see any effect. At night the more people in the carriage the brighter the lighting becomes.

Thanks for the correction, knew I should have looked it up before posting I found a description of the initial installation and noticed that it was supposed to have a day/night mode ambient light sensor, but hard to guess whether this is just broken or whether the LEDs have lost most of their output - probably the latter after ten years. WMT were no help when I raised it with them anyway.

 

[Spirit555]

I believe that 323210 is currently at Wolverton for DDA work

Mark

18/06 - Having seen all 323's in last 11 days including 323210 which has NOT been DDA treated, it would appear that no WMT 323 is in for refurb.

Is anyone able to confirm this.

Mark

 

[prod_pep]

18/06 - Having seen all 323's in last 11 days including 323210 which has NOT been DDA treated, it would appear that no WMT 323 is in for refurb.

Is anyone able to confirm this.

Yes, I can confirm no 323 was at Wolverton as of Saturday 15th June: 323201/202/203/205/206/207/208/209/211/212/213/214/215/216/219/220/221/222/240/241/243 were all in service and the remaining 5, 323204/210/217/218/242 were all clearly visible at Soho.

It seems the work is on hold and I wonder if it is to do with the poor quality? It has to be said, the new front TrainFX displays really are dreadful compared with the nice, legible LED ones the WM 323s have had for years. The internal displays are truly awful and there have been a number of complaints on Twitter regarding the muffled auto announcements.

 

[Spirit555]

Yes, I can confirm no 323 was at Wolverton as of Saturday 15th June: 323201/202/203/205/206/207/208/209/211/212/213/214/215/216/219/220/221/222/240/241/243 were all in service and the remaining 5, 323204/210/217/218/242 were all clearly visible at Soho.

It seems the work is on hold and I wonder if it is to do with the poor quality? It has to be said, the new front TrainFX displays really are dreadful compared with the nice, legible LED ones the WM 323s have had for years. The internal displays are truly awful and there have been a number of complaints on Twitter regarding the muffled auto announcements.

Thanks for that.

With the work apparently on hold this doesn't help with meeting the end of year deadline for DDA compliance. There are still 24 units to do in less than 6 months.

I do begin to wonder whether both leasers and operators realise the full implications of this. Hoping for so called "dispensation" is not an option they should consider.

Others may have views which differ but I do agree that the 323 program is poor and seems to be a cheap fix. I cannot see how these new front destinations are claimed to be DDA as they are virtually impossible to see from a distance whereas the older displays are very clear. I travel on the 323's virtually every day and the interiors are now quite poor, seats with no foam, which are sinking. The disabled areas looking very dated.

Mark

 

[Sprinter107]

Not seen inside the refreshed 323, but seen it many times, and I also must agree that the front destination indicators are dreadful. Why ever they thought they were better than the usual type, I dont know.

 

[Mordac]

I've been on the refurbished 323s and agree the refurbishment isn't really worthy of the name. If they'd kept the same seat colours I doubt anyone would notice.

 

[VT 390]

Why spend the money refurbishing the 323's when they will be leaving the franchise soon? I think the money could be better spent elsewhere.

 

[anamyd]

Not seen inside the refreshed 323, but seen it many times, and I also must agree that the front destination indicators are dreadful. Why ever they thought they were better than the usual type, I dont know.

They had to be replaced because the old ones were a standalone type thing that wouldn't have worked with the Passenger Information System. But yes, definitely seems to be TrainFX's cheap and nasty entry level option.

 

[59CosG95]

Saw a post on Facebook that 323201 is currently away at Wolverton for refurbishment.

 

[Spirit555]

323201 back refurb. First day in service today I believe. Same crappy standard as other two. Muffled PIS, etched windows not touched etc.
one of its coaches doors failed and are OOS

Mark

 

[Energy]

they are meant to be going to northern after wmt so I take it that northern are probably just going to change the seat covers, any stickers and what goes on the PIS.

 

[K.o.R]

It bugs me that when they repaint them into the orange livery they make the headlight surrounds yellow. Those modules are meant to be black!

 

[js1000]

they are meant to be going to northern after wmt so I take it that northern are probably just going to change the seat covers, any stickers and what goes on the PIS.

The C6 exam and PRM mods are paid by the rolling stock owner - but WMT only want as little doing as possible to minimise time out of revenue earning service given they will only be with the franchise another 12-24 months. Likewise Porterbrook probably didn't want to spend a fortune sprucing them up with no apparent takers beyond 2021 (at the time) so it's understandable why it was a no-frills job as neither party see any benefit in doing anything beyond the bare minimum.

We'll have to wait and see but not so sure about Northern. Northern's 323s ought to have gone for their C6 exam and PRM mods at the start of the year. The delay suggests the specification of refurbishment would have been part of the lease negotiations. It's not unreasonable to suspect Northern would have specified a higher spec of refurbishment fit for the next 5 years and beyond - as opposed to WMT short-term refurb for only the next year or two.

I think the one big improvement that would help the 323s enormously would be LED lighting. It would really lift the internal from somewhat dreary 90s feel to a more vibrant interior. Hopefully it'll happen as Northern have installed LED lighting on some 150 units which probably have less lift left in them than 323s.

 

[jhy44]

Finally got a refurbished one on my twice monthly trips back home to Longbridge; good lord the quality is even worse than I imagined. Those announcements are barely even audible to me as someone without hearings problems, how can this pass as meeting PRM requirements?

And those awful screens, have they never heard of punctuation?

Completely agree with the point about LED lighting too.

Absolute embarrassment of a job which both porterbrook and WMT should be ashamed of.

 

[Spirit555]

323218 back from DDA work and in service on Cross City services today

Mark

 

[RealTrains07]

It bugs me that when they repaint them into the orange livery they make the headlight surrounds yellow. Those modules are meant to be black!

They have been yellow since LM days, nothing new

 

[RealTrains07]

The C6 exam and PRM mods are paid by the rolling stock owner - but WMT only want as little doing as possible to minimise time out of revenue earning service given they will only be with the franchise another 12-24 months. Likewise Porterbrook probably didn't want to spend a fortune sprucing them up with no apparent takers beyond 2021 (at the time) so it's understandable why it was a no-frills job as neither party see any benefit in doing anything beyond the bare minimum.

We'll have to wait and see but not so sure about Northern. Northern's 323s ought to have gone for their C6 exam and PRM mods at the start of the year. The delay suggests the specification of refurbishment would have been part of the lease negotiations. It's not unreasonable to suspect Northern would have specified a higher spec of refurbishment fit for the next 5 years and beyond - as opposed to WMT short-term refurb for only the next year or two.

I think the one big improvement that would help the 323s enormously would be LED lighting. It would really lift the internal from somewhat dreary 90s feel to a more vibrant interior. Hopefully it'll happen as Northern have installed LED lighting on some 150 units which probably have less lift left in them than 323s.

Also got to consider that northerns 323s were due to all go until this year when all the plans changed

You could argue the main reason northern are even refurbishing the 323s is cause they are with them long term now?

 

[Spirit555]

323203 back from refurb

HTH