West Yorkshire MCard - Slow progress with implementation?

[johntea]

The West Yorkshire Metro 'MCard' has been out around 3 years now, plus presumably planning before that.

I needed to purchase one yesterday as my previous one a)expired and b)was through a corporate work scheme which no longer runs. Not a problem, I'll just get one from Leeds station on my way home. Which leads onto...

Problem : You can only obtain them initially from Bus Station Travel Centres or so called 'PayZones' (the flaw with the PayZone though being it'll cost you 2 quid for the card!).

Then when I got the card and 'topped it up' with a monthly Zones 1-3 rail I get a counterpart paper ticket presumably because none of the rail operators have the facility to read the chip on the MCard to establish the validity of it. When will this happen, if ever, as I can only really see Northern (Arriva) buying into it as other TOCs generally only have limited West Yorkshire stops anyway.

Buses seem to generally work although I see no real advantage other than the bus companies collecting statistics when I could just flash the counterpart at the driver as easily, at least with the train stations the contactless barriers are better in terms of not wearing out your MetroCard and does speed things up!

Also it already seems out of date now anyway, why can't I just link up my contactless debit card / Apple Pay up with the Metro systems and have less cards to worry about carrying? (Like London has recently implemented)

There are some good ideas with the project but it all just feels a bit of a snails pace! Maybe I'm being too optimistic

 

[yorksrob]

It seems bizarre that you can't buy one through the station travel centre. BTW, it's a shame your work scheme ended. I'd like to see more of such schemes available to people.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

The problem with everything being loaded on to M Cards and suchlike is the time it takes to check them.

My eyes can scan a busy train of traditional season or metrocard paper tickets easily and quickly. A hand held reader for smartcards took over twice as long by time it had read the card, put the details on the screen, and I had read what was on the screen.

Unless every single station has gates then a manual check is still needed.

 

[johntea]

Well what a complete shambles to top up too!

Turns out it isn't just obtaining the card you can't do from rail stations, you also can't top them up there

I had to in the end use the Payzone website to locate a corner shop on my way home, who in turn didn't accept card payment so had to locate a cash machine and only then managed to get my 'top up'.

All it seems to be is a fancy card reader attached to a payment machine, why that can't be programmed into the rail station systems I have absolutely no idea!

 

[johntea]

Common sense has prevailed!

Just seen an advert at Leeds station that you can now top up MCard at rail stations.

From reading the blurb it looks as if you can even do the top up at unstaffed stations using the TVMs

 

[mafeu]

Common sense has prevailed!

Just seen an advert at Leeds station that you can now top up MCard at rail stations.

From reading the blurb it looks as if you can even do the top up at unstaffed stations using the TVMs

Took long enough! I wrote to Metro many times enquiring about the delay. An absolute farce when I want to top up each month...as often PayZone 'is not working today' (I CBA) at many shops.

 

[Starmill]

... if the TVM has a Smartcard reader. I noticed the ones at Huddersfield have had them installed.

http://www.wymetro.com/top-ups/ implies booking offices remain unable to add products.

 

[johntea]

I tried a Leeds (Northern) TVM which has a contactless reader on it and easily shows the status of your card and the top up options.

I tried at the Castleford card only TVM which works in a similar way but a bit of a faff to get it to actually read my card as it has to sit in a 'holder' to read properly then I couldn't find any top up options on that, maybe because I still have a valid ticket on my card though.

 

[johntea]

Well this could be an interesting argument with Metro, tried to top up my card this morning at Castleford station and the debit / credit card payment unit was out of order on the TVM :roll:

So looks like I'll be having to purchase a rail ticket to cover my journey today then send it off to Metro and see what they have to say about that!

Probably the spiel about how you can top up in advance at over a million different locations which is great unless you don't know when exactly you're going to be needing to 'start' your new MCard.

 

[itsjustmyjob]

I was mighty disappointed that when Metro DayRovers were removed from sale at post offices they weren't immediately available on MCards.

The roll-out is painfully slow. 25 April finally sees the introduction of the 'Day Saver' but this is only available on the bus. Rail availability needs to be added quickly to make it really useful.

 

[northernman]

Johntea, I am sorry about your experience at our self service machine at Castleford this morning. I have checked the machine and it is working fine now, however I am sorry it was not working at your time of use.

Ian Borthwick
Retail Systems manager
Northern

 

[Deerfold]

Topping up MCards is far harder than it should be.

I've not tried at a railway station yet, but you can only put a season on that includes that rail station. As I use Leeds occasionally but often have a Zone 2-5 ticket plus the occasional extra paper ticket I've asked why these restrictions have been put on. Rail stations can also not top up bus-only cards. Apparently the machines can't cope with cards with no payment to TOCs.

The website to find places to top up has extremely inaccurate opening times. I've not yet found a shop where they're correct, but I have visited many shops which were advertised as open but were not. Despite multiple complaints to Metro and Payzone over the last couple of years none have been corrected. I've never yet managed to get my nearest local shop to put a card on. They've had broken machines and untrained staff ("If you come back in 3 hours, there will be someone here who can help"...). Despite multiple complaints over the last 3 years it still shows as shutting at 2200 when it actually shuts at 1900 (1800 Sundays) and shows as opening at 0700 when it actually opens at 0800 (0900 Sundays).

 

[johntea]

Thanks Ian - in the end I sweet talked the gate line staff at Leeds to letting me through so I could quickly top up there.

 

[johntea]

http://www.wymetro.com/news/Pay_as_you_go/

"West Yorkshire Combined Authority in partnership with local bus companies Keighley and District and TLC are launching a new MCard ‘Pay As You Go’ option from Monday 16 May."

West Yorkshire might be competing with Oyster by the year 2061 at this rate

I don't understand why they're adding a middle man here, surely the consumer would find it a lot less confusing if they could pay using their contactless debit card or other similar solution (Apple Pay)

 

[TUC]

It is the lack of being able to top up online or just having a mobile version by which you just show the relevant page on your screen that are the major gaps. OK, with topping up on line you would have the problem of what to do regarding the paper voucher for rail, but usitny a mobile should be much more readily accessible for both modes.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It is the lack of being able to top up online or just having a mobile version by which you just show the relevant page on your screen that are the major gaps. OK, with topping up on line you would have the problem of what to do regarding the paper voucher for rail, but usitny a mobile should be much more readily accessible for both modes.

The paper vouchers and tickets for rail are being phased out later this year once all relevant TOCS have upgraded their onboard ticket equipment and have suitable methods of scanning and reading the tickets electronically. This will however make the process of ticket examination on board a lot slower.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've been an Mcard user for around 18 months, and for the most part it works pretty well for me, but I have noticed a few issues...

When the ability to top up at Northern ticket machines was introduced, I decided to try it out at Batley only to discover that as the two previous months were still stored on my card though expired, there was no space to add the next month's product. So, a trip to Huddersfield Bus Station travel centre was made to try and remove the expired products only to be told that this couldn't be done: they could remove the current month but not the expired ones, though one of the expired ones was automatically bumped off when a new product was added at the travel centre at least. I always top up at Huddersfield as I don't trust the payzone system when buying a whole month- not such an issue when I was using weeklies but the rubbish counterpart from a Payzone outlet is just a receipt laminated onto a grey card which would be relatively easy to counterfeit for train travel at least until guards have the ability to read the smartcard.

 

[Deerfold]

http://www.wymetro.com/news/Pay_as_you_go/

"West Yorkshire Combined Authority in partnership with local bus companies Keighley and District and TLC are launching a new MCard ‘Pay As You Go’ option from Monday 16 May."

West Yorkshire might be competing with Oyster by the year 2061 at this rate

I don't understand why they're adding a middle man here, surely the consumer would find it a lot less confusing if they could pay using their contactless debit card or other similar solution (Apple Pay)

And ridiculously you need a different type of MCard for this than if you've a weekly or monthly product.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I've been an Mcard user for around 18 months, and for the most part it works pretty well for me, but I have noticed a few issues...

When the ability to top up at Northern ticket machines was introduced, I decided to try it out at Batley only to discover that as the two previous months were still stored on my card though expired, there was no space to add the next month's product. So, a trip to Huddersfield Bus Station travel centre was made to try and remove the expired products only to be told that this couldn't be done: they could remove the current month but not the expired ones, though one of the expired ones was automatically bumped off when a new product was added at the travel centre at least. I always top up at Huddersfield as I don't trust the payzone system when buying a whole month- not such an issue when I was using weeklies but the rubbish counterpart from a Payzone outlet is just a receipt laminated onto a grey card which would be relatively easy to counterfeit for train travel at least until guards have the ability to read the smartcard.

I've always had the same type of counterpart from Payzone outlets as from Bus Stations.

My biggest problem which has been outstanding for a couple of years is finding out when Payzone outlets have been open as the opening times on their website are a work of fiction. I've also often not been able to buy even when they're open due to equipment failure or staff not knowing how to issue a ticket with the suggestion I return in 3 hours!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And ridiculously you need a different type of MCard for this than if you've a weekly or monthly product.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I've always had the same type of counterpart from Payzone outlets as from Bus Stations.

My biggest problem which has been outstanding for a couple of years is finding out when Payzone outlets have been open as the opening times on their website are a work of fiction. I've also often not been able to buy even when they're open due to equipment failure or staff not knowing how to issue a ticket with the suggestion I return in 3 hours!

Every time I used a payzone outlet, the counterpart was a receipt laminated onto a blank counterpart card, even at the shop based within Batley bus station. I also avoid using the travel centres at Wakefield and Dewsbury as they're run by Arriva, not Metro.

 

[BillyBoy]

I thought I would add my recent MCard experience as it's been a bit of a faff. Background is that my daughter starts college in Leeds today, we live in Skipton so decided to go down the time-honoured route of season to Steeton & Silsden combined with a 16-25 MCard.
We bought the season ticket at Skipton Station and were told we could use the TVM there to top-up the MCard. We planned to buy a week ticket and an autumn term ticket (WYMetro's term starts a week from today).
The TVM at Skipton has the MCard option, it read the card OK and correctly said there was nothing on it. It gave the option to add a ticket and then said to select from the following list of destinations. Which was blank. The man in the ticket office was puzzled as he'd seen other people use it successfully and could only suggest we go and use the TVM at Steeton & Silsden.
Which we did. There it gave the option of a weekly or monthly ticket. I presumed that maybe the term ticket, not starting for another week, was not available to purchase yet - I'll come back to that. After 2 failed attempts to pay for the weekly ticket on my Amex card where the machine just said Remove Card then Transaction Failed I paid on another card and my daughter is sorted for this week at least. Phew!
I then emailed Metroline to see when the autumn term ticket would be available to purchase to be told that it actually is now but we can only get it from a bus station or Payzone outlet. It really shouldn't be this complicated I think.

 

[Deerfold]

I thought I would add my recent MCard experience as it's been a bit of a faff. Background is that my daughter starts college in Leeds today, we live in Skipton so decided to go down the time-honoured route of season to Steeton & Silsden combined with a 16-25 MCard.
We bought the season ticket at Skipton Station and were told we could use the TVM there to top-up the MCard. We planned to buy a week ticket and an autumn term ticket (WYMetro's term starts a week from today).
The TVM at Skipton has the MCard option, it read the card OK and correctly said there was nothing on it. It gave the option to add a ticket and then said to select from the following list of destinations. Which was blank. The man in the ticket office was puzzled as he'd seen other people use it successfully and could only suggest we go and use the TVM at Steeton & Silsden.
Which we did. There it gave the option of a weekly or monthly ticket. I presumed that maybe the term ticket, not starting for another week, was not available to purchase yet - I'll come back to that. After 2 failed attempts to pay for the weekly ticket on my Amex card where the machine just said Remove Card then Transaction Failed I paid on another card and my daughter is sorted for this week at least. Phew!
I then emailed Metroline to see when the autumn term ticket would be available to purchase to be told that it actually is now but we can only get it from a bus station or Payzone outlet. It really shouldn't be this complicated I think.

The ticket machines have been set up so they can only load tickets that include the zone they're in. I've asked them to review this - I often arrive in Leeds and need to go home and buy a single to Shipley or Apperley Bridge and an MCard for Zones 2-5 for the week. Until 9 days ago I could do this with a Metrocard but I can't do it now unless I go and find a PayZone store. Metro said they'd look into allowing other tickets to be sold (though apparently Bus Only is impossible), so don't expect it anytime soon.

I assume the problem is there's no 16-25 MCard which includes Skipton and the machine handles this badly.

The machine at Steeton and Silsden is temperamental to say the least.

 

[Starmill]

The paper vouchers and tickets for rail are being phased out later this year once all relevant TOCS have upgraded their onboard ticket equipment and have suitable methods of scanning and reading the tickets electronically. This will however make the process of ticket examination on board a lot slower.

I've seen a lot of people on the train recently using an MCard without a counterpart. Have they stopped issuing them? Do TVMs issue counterparts? Some guards don't even seem to know what the cards are.

 

[Eeveevolve]

They do. TVMs in Leeds

http://imgur.com/a/oyO84

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I've seen a lot of people on the train recently using an MCard without a counterpart. Have they stopped issuing them? Do TVMs issue counterparts? Some guards don't even seem to know what the cards are.

The TVMs do issue counterparts. The print layout is similar to a normal season ticket / station issued Metrocard, but also includes the MCard number.

Payzone still issue counterparts but I have encountered quite a few without them, all saying they were never given one. Often they will just have the paper receipt from Payzone but not in one of the self seal pouches the counterpart should be in. In all except one case I have proved the ticket was valid by using an app on my phone to read the card. I should point out the app is freely available to the public and is one I've sourced myself, nothing official has been provided for card reading.

I do not recall ever seeing any official briefing at work about MCards and the payzone receipts, although something was circulated via email about the TVM top up and counterparts, although not till some weeks / months after they first started appearing.

 

[TUC]

My daughter topped up her M Card at a Paypoint the other night. It was only as an afterthought that the shop assistant said 'oh, do you want the paper recipt too?' and printed it out. Even then, she was just given it as it was, not with a laminated wallet.

 

[johntea]

I've seen a few of these being installed in bus stations but all still in packaging as of yet...could it mean the end of the payzone nonsense?

 

[TUC]

I've seen a few of these being installed in bus stations but all still in packaging as of yet...could it mean the end of the payzone nonsense?

They'll only be of use if you want to top up in a bus station. Most people will want to do so from near their own home, preferably in their own home, so it won't solve much of the problem.

 

[james2trains]

I think the scheme could really take off if they launched PAYG on trains, but this would require validators at every station and a way of checking them on-board trains.

 

[Deerfold]

I think the scheme could really take off if they launched PAYG on trains, but this would require validators at every station and a way of checking them on-board trains.

They have PAYG. But only on Transdev and TLC. You can buy a single, return or day ticket. There's no capping or discounts.

Oh, and you need a white MCard with credit loaded. You can't load season tickets or MetroDay tickets onto this. Presumably this means you also can't get half fare tickets using this unless the system can cope with taps from two different cards for one journey.

 

[johntea]

I purchased a bus only DaySaver today(£5.50) using one of the MCard machines at the bus station - quite impressive in that if you don't have an MCard already you can buy the 'ticket' and just like Oyster the machine can chuck you out a pink MCard - there isn't a charge but obviously you have to be buying a travel product.

Really a pain though how they won't allow you to buy a combined bus and train product - at Castleford you can't even buy those at all and since the rail station is unstaffed you're slightly screwed! Not sure why Metro can't stock these self service machines with some rail ticket stock as that is all that would be required I assume, in order to produce a rail ticket counterpart to show to conductors - obviously on the bus / some rail ticket barriers everything is done by scanning your MCard these days.