West Yorkshire PTE Journey Planner: Still Crazy After All These Years!

[61653 HTAFC]

Apologies to Paul Simon.

Due to a potential family emergency, I had a need to find out how easy it would be to use public transport to get between two neighbouring villages in a rural area of West Yorkshire...

First of all I tried to view the .pdfs of the emergency timetables for the services 233 and 435, downloaded them only to find that each one contained 4 mostly blank pages with only "no service" at the top in very small text. This I knew to be untrue as I had seen buses operating on both routes.

So I tried the notoriously buggy journey planner instead, and at least the services were appearing on there... however when I clicked "last journey" on the results I was given a very silly itinerary, which included this very peculiar map (for information, the purple line is walking, with the green being bus):


Basically the journey planned suggests a walk some distance along the route of service 233 passing at least two served stops, before boarding the bus and riding for a single stop, then following a public footpath through woods and fields late at night. This despite the bus route passing within 50 yards of the ultimate destination (albeit via a slightly circuitous route).

Can anyone top that for journey planner madness?

 

[PG]

for information, the purple line is walking, with the green being bus

Spoiler: Pedant alert

but, but....
Green line was always a coach!

Sorry, couldn't resist

I did try to use travelline.info to see what results it would give but they seem to be having server trouble in the wee small hours, possibly updating timetable data.

I've had similarly daft routes off of JPs in the past and I vaguely recall a thread somewhere in the railway section about one JP sending passengers on a good few hundreds of miles detour up n down the WCML to end up not very far from their origin!

 

[NorthernSpirit]

I've given up using any journey planner as it kept giving me wrong or conflicting information. One occation a withdrawn bus service was still in the system and on another the train would arrive just after the bus I wanted departed, not good if your making use of a rural bus service with a limited number of journeys.

Trying to use the Travelwest journey planner seems to be more complicated than doing eye surgery, trying to get the real time thing working as well is the equivelent to getting blood out of a stone as its crashed on me more times than the number of crashes performed by the late 1995 FIA World Rally Champion.

Nowerdays I resort to printed timetables, MS Word and a printer to scribble up a journey plan - at least I won't get the wrong information when constructing a multi mode journey. Also with Metro's "digital first" approach the WYPTE journey planner could be a thing of the past should Metro wish to drop their own bespoke version and replace it with the Yorkshire wide Yorkshiretravel.net version.

 

[KeithC]

Gave up on it a long while ago as dosen't always show all services. Gives services from the nearest stop to home but dosen't give the alternative of the two minute walk to the next stop with an additional service which comes up a different road. Not as bad though as one planner some years ago which gave instructions to cross the River Thames miles away from the nearest bridge!

 

[travelbat]

Apologies to Paul Simon.

Due to a potential family emergency, I had a need to find out how easy it would be to use public transport to get between two neighbouring villages in a rural area of West Yorkshire...

First of all I tried to view the .pdfs of the emergency timetables for the services 233 and 435, downloaded them only to find that each one contained 4 mostly blank pages with only "no service" at the top in very small text. This I knew to be untrue as I had seen buses operating on both routes.

So I tried the notoriously buggy journey planner instead, and at least the services were appearing on there... however when I clicked "last journey" on the results I was given a very silly itinerary, which included this very peculiar map (for information, the purple line is walking, with the green being bus):

View attachment 76012
Basically the journey planned suggests a walk some distance along the route of service 233 passing at least two served stops, before boarding the bus and riding for a single stop, then following a public footpath through woods and fields late at night. This despite the bus route passing within 50 yards of the ultimate destination (albeit via a slightly circuitous route).

Can anyone top that for journey planner madness?

Yes of course it's maddening, but I guess the staff are doing their best in a time when timetables are changing every week.

The WY Metro site has a great scheduled showing the latest changes, and from there you can get this week's timetables for all services - including the the 233 and 435 - see attached!

 

[Andyh82]

The 233 & 435 timetables are shown on this page

https://www.wymetro.com/plan-a-jour...-alerts/arriva-yorkshire-tiger-from-30-march/

 

[61653 HTAFC]

^
Which begs the question, why are there also blank .pdfs of both those services on the website? Fair enough if the links posted above are just corrections of an earlier error, but yesterday when I searched by service number (which is where the website directs you unless you know to look elsewhere) I just got blanks.

There was also an issue with Mcard data not being loaded onto smartcards correctly at the end of January, which meant the readers on buses would say they were invalid. When I enquired at the Huddersfield travel centre about this, the staff were very apologetic and corrected the mistake, but they also said that I should have refused to pay a cash fare on the buses in this case... However they did not publicise this problem on their website, and most bus drivers will give short shrift to anyone claiming their card is valid when it appears not to be and there's no way for them to check. That's yet another reason that scrapping counterparts was a stupid idea- it seems that Metro's left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

 

[Andyh82]

^
Which begs the question, why are there also blank .pdfs of both those services on the website? Fair enough if the links posted above are just corrections of an earlier error, but yesterday when I searched by service number (which is where the website directs you unless you know to look elsewhere) I just got blanks.

It looks like the normal bus timetable section has been blanked out. Probably better than the alternative which is leaving them all in place.

You need to follow the news banner at the top to go into the emergency timetable area, where there are either hastily put together PDFs or links to bus company websites.

It’s almost as if we are in the middle of a pandemic where bus timetables were being rewritten on a daily basis, and where many of Metro’s own staff may not be working at the moment.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It looks like the normal bus timetable section has been blanked out. Probably better than the alternative which is leaving them all in place.

You need to follow the news banner at the top to go into the emergency timetable area, where there are either hastily put together PDFs or links to bus company websites.

It’s almost as if we are in the middle of a pandemic where bus timetables were being rewritten on a daily basis, and where many of Metro’s own staff may not be working at the moment.

The blank pdf timetables have a start-date of 30th March 2020: the day the emergency timetables were adopted. They replaced the pre-pandemic timetables which are rightly no longer available.

Yes, we are in uncharted territory and everywhere including Metro will be short-staffed... but if you're uploading information for the public you should make sure it is correct and not self-contradictory before it goes live. No information is better than incorrect information.

If this isn't a mistake- and the information is being redacted in one place and not in another, this doesn't make Metro seem more competent. It does the opposite.

 

[yorkie]

Can anyone top that for journey planner madness?

Not topping it but a relatively recent example (well, 2 years ago) I found on Google Maps can be found here: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/google-maps-oddities-bugs.162645/#post-3401121; usually Google is pretty good though.

 

[_toommm_]

There was a bug with TheTrainLine a few months ago, which permitted you to go from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport via Plymouth, all for the price of £3.70 (w/ Railcard). Just 13 hours and 30 minutes so not too long:

(Picture shows an itinerary off TheTrainLine, comprising the 09:27 Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham New Street, 11:17 Birmingham New Street to Plymouth, 15:25 Plymouth to Leeds and finally 21:39 Leeds to Manchester Airport.

 

[Leeds1970]

61653 HTAFC -- the metro smart cards that were not reading correctly, were cards that had been topped up using the TVM's at railway stations
it corrupts the cards. the problem is that it is not doing it to all cards at all tvm's it is totally random so identifying the problem and fixing it has proved difficult. removal of the card counterparts is irrelevant just keep your receipt it contains all the same details if a bus driver makesw you pay then keep the bus ticket - contact the bus operator and you will either get refunded or you can claim A FREE DAYS TRAVEL under the bus 18 scheme (dissatisfied journey) or both.
with regards to the WY metro journey planner I don't know the date yet but it is being withdrawn - passengers will probably be directed to one of the following - traveline / movvit/relevant bus company.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

With regards to the WY metro journey planner I don't know the date yet but it is being withdrawn - passengers will probably be directed to one of the following - traveline / movvit / relevant bus company.

Going by what I was told in an email from Metro, the WY journey planner, YourNextBus and printed timetable information will change in the "very near future".

This to me states it won't be the next timetable change but the one after, however with this Coronavirus floating about I wouldn't put it past Metro if the next timetable change was the one where this change is implemented. So we see the WYJP transform into the yorkshiretravel.net version, YourNextBus becomes Traveline's NextBuses.mobi and the printed stuff either turning into glossy publications or turning into to cheapo printouts.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

61653 HTAFC -- the metro smart cards that were not reading correctly, were cards that had been topped up using the TVM's at railway stations
it corrupts the cards. the problem is that it is not doing it to all cards at all tvm's it is totally random so identifying the problem and fixing it has proved difficult. removal of the card counterparts is irrelevant just keep your receipt it contains all the same details if a bus driver makesw you pay then keep the bus ticket - contact the bus operator and you will either get refunded or you can claim A FREE DAYS TRAVEL under the bus 18 scheme (dissatisfied journey) or both.
with regards to the WY metro journey planner I don't know the date yet but it is being withdrawn - passengers will probably be directed to one of the following - traveline / movvit/relevant bus company.

The situation with smartcards was explained to me by the staff at Huddersfield travel centre. In my case it was the first time I'd used a TPE machine to top-up, so Huddersfield railway station was my first port-of-call. I did indeed retain my bus ticket and submitted a claim prior to the shutdown (I'll be donating my refund to charity when it is eventually processed). However my issue with that particular problem was the suggestion that I should stand my ground if a bus driver insists that I pay, for the following reasons:
1) Metro did not announce this fault on their website, so as a card holder I had no idea of the nature of the problem until visiting the travel centre. It would not take much to post a small statement about this issue on the website, saying that the issue is being worked on and we're sorry for any inconvenience. It's customer service 101.
2) As I have no counterpart, and the bus ticket machine can't read the card, the bus driver has every right to refuse me travel because as far as they can tell- I haven't paid.
3) Given the constant reminders about treating staff with respect, I don't want to be "that guy" who argues with the driver and delays everyone else- again, as far as they're concerned I'm just being difficult and trying to get a free ride.
4) Some bus routes only operate bi-hourly. If arguing with the driver means I'm refused travel (again, the driver is within his/her rights to do so based on the information available to them) then I'm risking a two-hour delay to my journey. Therefore it was easier to just pay the single fare.

My issue is that Metro isn't great at communicating these things, and isn't consistent with their messaging. As with many public bodies (cough cough DWP, cough cough GP's receptionists), they're so familiar with their own internal processes that they forget to explain those processes clearly to outsiders.

 

[NorthOxonian]

There was a bug with TheTrainLine a few months ago, which permitted you to go from Manchester Piccadilly to Manchester Airport via Plymouth, all for the price of £3.70 (w/ Railcard). Just 13 hours and 30 minutes so not too long:

(Picture shows an itinerary off TheTrainLine, comprising the 09:27 Manchester Piccadilly to Birmingham New Street, 11:17 Birmingham New Street to Plymouth, 15:25 Plymouth to Leeds and finally 21:39 Leeds to Manchester Airport.

View attachment 76021

What would have happened had someone attempted to follow such an itinerary? Would it be honoured, or would the train company turn round and say, "that's ridiculous, you should have realised you can't go to Plymouth for under a fiver"?

(I'm aware this is veering a little off topic.)

 

[yorkie]

What would have happened had someone attempted to follow such an itinerary? Would it be honoured, or would the train company turn round and say, "that's ridiculous, you should have realised you can't go to Plymouth for under a fiver"?

(I'm aware this is veering a little off topic.)

To be clear this was NOT a bug with Trainline's journey planner at all. Clearly there has been a misunderstanding! It was a bug with an easement, which meant that if someone planned a journey with a particular via point, it would be deemed valid. The journey planner did not come up with crazy itineraries, which is the topic of this thread; it came up with a sensible itinerary given the via point that was specified.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What would have happened had someone attempted to follow such an itinerary? Would it be honoured, or would the train company turn round and say, "that's ridiculous, you should have realised you can't go to Plymouth for under a fiver"?

(I'm aware this is veering a little off topic.)

There was a similar error a few years ago with fares from certain South Yorkshire stations to certain North Kent stations... I of course purchased a Chapeltown to Strood SVR for something like £8.50. Had no issues with any ticket inspections until I was trying to get back North from the Midland platforms at St. Pancras, where one of the gateline staff outright accused me of having a fake ticket. I did point out that if I was making a fake ticket I wouldn't put such a low price on it, and she relented but only after I'd missed the last Sheffield service that would connect into a Penistone line departure (I'd travelled from Denby Dale)... so a taxi was provided at EMT's expense.

Apologies for continuing the off-topic...

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Another journey suggestion of Dadaist convolution this morning: again for a Skelmanthorpe to Batley journey. This one suggested I take the Yorkshire Tiger 435 to Denby Dale, change onto the South Pennine Community Transport 353 to Barugh Green. Then, Stagecoach Yorkshire 95 as far as Kexborough where I'd catch the Stagecoach X10 all the way to Leeds. Then it tells me to get the First 4 to near Leeds railway station for the train to Batley!

At a time when we're being told to only travel when necessary, such a routing (including interactions with 5 drivers, increasing their risk) is not really in keeping with that!