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Western Region HST mishap 78/79?

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Hi all, new bod here. Was hoping someone would know the details on this, I recall me and mates doing a spotter's visit to Reading, probably very early 1979, and on the sidings there was an out-of-action set of cars - in my mind it was an HST unit, that's how I remember this, as much as memory can be counted on at this conjuncture... on which at least one of the cars showed signs of fire damage. A google of incidents at that time doesn't seem to yield what I'm after!

Cheers chaps!
 
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Peter Mugridge

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I am pretty sure I read of a fire at around that time, which I think was an exhaust fire, and I can't swear to it but the number 43019 immediately came to mind when I read your post...
 

richw

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Would the Taunton sleeper train fire of July 1978 tally up? Wrong class of train to your memory though.
 

richw

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I am pretty sure I read of a fire at around that time, which I think was an exhaust fire, and I can't swear to it but the number 43019 immediately came to mind when I read your post...

43019 was I believe written off in the Ufton Nervet crash.
 

Peter Mugridge

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43019 was I believe written off in the Ufton Nervet crash.

Yes, but there was an HST fire involving one of the low numbered ones around the time span quoted.

Agree the Taunton incident would also fit that time scale, though.
 

OuterDistant

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ISTR reading about a vandalism incident in the area around that time where an HST struck a piece of rail that burst the fuel tank. Haven't found anything online about it, though.
 

Commoner

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Hi all, new bod here. Was hoping someone would know the details on this, I recall me and mates doing a spotter's visit to Reading, probably very early 1979, and on the sidings there was an out-of-action set of cars - in my mind it was an HST unit, that's how I remember this, as much as memory can be counted on at this conjuncture... on which at least one of the cars showed signs of fire damage. A google of incidents at that time doesn't seem to yield what I'm after!

Cheers chaps!

Friday 16th February 1979. 253 021 formed W43043/42, 41043/44, 40307, 42045/64/65/104 working the FO 18.41 Paddington-Swansea hit an object placed on the track near Tilehurst. Fuel tank of W43042 was punctured leading to a fire at front of the set. W43042, 42056/104 required fire damage and underframe repairs at Derby Works. The set was present on S.P.Marsh, minus W43042, W42064/65/104 on 19th February 1979. I believe the full set was moved to Old Oak Common, before being split, but it was probably stabled in and around the Reading area, at least for some part of Saturday 17th February.

Here is a couple of shots of the ruptured fuel tank and scorched rear of W43042
 

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Cowley

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Friday 16th February 1979. 253 021 formed W43043/42, 41043/44, 40307, 42045/64/65/104 working the FO 18.41 Paddington-Swansea hit an object placed on the track near Tilehurst. Fuel tank of W43042 was punctured leading to a fire at front of the set. W43042, 42056/104 required fire damage and underframe repairs at Derby Works. The set was present on S.P.Marsh, minus W43042, W42064/65/104 on 19th February 1979. I believe the full set was moved to Old Oak Common, before being split, but it was probably stabled in and around the Reading area, at least for some part of Saturday 17th February.

Here is a couple of shots of the ruptured fuel tank and scorched rear of W43042

I'm sure that I'm not the only one on here that would like to give you a virtual round of applause for providing this information Commoner.
Absolutely superb. :)
 

Commoner

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I'm sure that I'm not the only one on here that would like to give you a virtual round of applause for providing this information Commoner.
Absolutely superb. :)

Thanks and it's a pleasure. I know it's very off beam but I have spent a lifetime researching early HST operation and occasionally the results are of interest to more than just me! Cheers Kevin (Commoner)
 

Peter Mugridge

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Thanks and it's a pleasure. I know it's very off beam but I have spent a lifetime researching early HST operation and occasionally the results are of interest to more than just me! Cheers Kevin (Commoner)

...and it was an instance that I hadn't heard of, so I'm now wondering about the one that I dimly recall that I mentioned up the thread... all I can be sure of is it was definitely engine or exhaust related and if it wasn't 43019 then I wonder about 253 019 although I am now starting to get 43006 or 253 006 bubbling up in my memory in connection with it.

Any ideas please?
 

Commoner

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...and it was an instance that I hadn't heard of, so I'm now wondering about the one that I dimly recall that I mentioned up the thread... all I can be sure of is it was definitely engine or exhaust related and if it wasn't 43019 then I wonder about 253 019 although I am now starting to get 43006 or 253 006 bubbling up in my memory in connection with it.

Any ideas please?

Peter I think you are on the right track. W43012 (253 006) had a turbocharger failure resulting in a fire, while working the 19.42 Swansea-Paddington on 31/05/78. Incident occurred near Swindon, and required the attendance of the local Fire Brigade. Power car was out of action for several days having two turbocharger changes before a return to service on 10/06/78. The fire damaged the experimental exhaust cowling (later adopted as standard) fitted in October 1977 to the extent it had to be scrapped. It was then possible to identify the two power cars from 253 006 at a distance, as W43013 retained its cowling. Hope this helps. I am not aware of any major incidents involving W43006/38/39 in the early years of service.
 

Peter Mugridge

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That's probably it then, except for one thing... unless I was reading a retrospective report, the date wouldn't match up because I remember reading about something like that roughly a year after that.

You see, I started at my boarding school in August 1978 and did not become seriously interested in railways until early 1979 and it was some months later I was reading about it.

My theory now is, therefore, that I was reading a report about it roughly a year after it happened - would that make sense in those days before the Internet was invented? I am assuming that it had to be in a railway magazine as a regular newspaper would not have reported the numbers would they? Hence I wouldn't have any memory of the number involved... but I obviously do.
 

Commoner

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That's probably it then, except for one thing... unless I was reading a retrospective report, the date wouldn't match up because I remember reading about something like that roughly a year after that.

You see, I started at my boarding school in August 1978 and did not become seriously interested in railways until early 1979 and it was some months later I was reading about it.

My theory now is, therefore, that I was reading a report about it roughly a year after it happened - would that make sense in those days before the Internet was invented? I am assuming that it had to be in a railway magazine as a regular newspaper would not have reported the numbers would they? Hence I wouldn't have any memory of the number involved... but I obviously do.

Yes you are right Peter. The incident was reported in editions of Modern Railways and the Railway Observer in the summer of 1978.
 

richw

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That's probably it then, except for one thing... unless I was reading a retrospective report, the date wouldn't match up because I remember reading about something like that roughly a year after that.

You see, I started at my boarding school in August 1978 and did not become seriously interested in railways until early 1979 and it was some months later I was reading about it.

My theory now is, therefore, that I was reading a report about it roughly a year after it happened - would that make sense in those days before the Internet was invented? I am assuming that it had to be in a railway magazine as a regular newspaper would not have reported the numbers would they? Hence I wouldn't have any memory of the number involved... but I obviously do.

On railway archives webpage many of the reports in the 70s are dated as much as 2-3 years after the event
 

83G/84D

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I was travelling back to Cornwall in the 1990's when the Paddington - Swansea HST in front of my train had an incident involving (I think) a detached fuel tank not far out of London. This was also on a Friday night I think. Smoke entered the 1st class coaches at the front of the train (it was in reverse formation). A panic ensued and there was an uncontrolled evacuation of the train with one person being hit and killed by a passing eastbound service before other services were stopped.

I got back to Cornwall around 5 - 6am from memory. I can't recall the details of the trains involved.
 

Cowley

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I was travelling back to Cornwall in the 1990's when the Paddington - Swansea HST in front of my train had an incident involving (I think) a detached fuel tank not far out of London. This was also on a Friday night I think. Smoke entered the 1st class coaches at the front of the train (it was in reverse formation). A panic ensued and there was an uncontrolled evacuation of the train with one person being hit and killed by a passing eastbound service before other services were stopped.

I got back to Cornwall around 5 - 6am from memory. I can't recall the details of the trains involved.

I remember reading about that at the time too.
 

Clarence Yard

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Maidenhead - September 1995. I think the power car was 43190, iirc. The unfortunate punter bailed and was mown down.
 

CarltonA

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I only have a very vague memory of it, but I do recall it as being the first of ten year string of bad incidents on the Great Western.

No use at all in relation to the late 1970s of course.

There were some other major incidents on that line, including a huge train fire at Langley Oil Depot sidings. Also a derailment caused by a loose battery cover on a Western which struck a points machine which then malfunctioned.

An incident I remember very well is the West Ealing crash of August 1989 when vandals placed a piece of rail on the track. A class 50 ended up on it's side on the platform with a Mk1 on top of it. I got to view the scene on the following morning as the reliefs had been reopened before the wreck was removed later on.
 
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Cowley

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There were some other major incidents on that line, including a huge train fire at Langley Oil Depot sidings. Also a derailment caused by a loose battery cover on a Western which struck a points machine which then malfunctioned.

An incident I remember very well is the West Ealing crash of August 1989 when vandals placed a piece of rail on the track. A class 50 ended up on it's side on the platform with a Mk1 on top of it. I got to view the scene on the following morning as the reliefs had been reopened before the wreck was removed later on.

50025 (not so) Invincible I believe?
Actually like you say there have been a lot of bad accidents between Reading and London over the years.
 

Brunel 1954

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I am pretty sure I read of a fire at around that time, which I think was an exhaust fire, and I can't swear to it but the number 43019 immediately came to mind when I read your post...

Probably was an HST exhaust fire. I worked at Laira Depot from 1979 to 1986 in the Traincrew Office which overlooked the main Plymouth to Paddington mainline. One morning I looked up from my desk to see a Up servive to Paddington go past with the roof of the leading Power Car on fire. I phoned the Panel at Plymouth which had the train stopped and the Fire Brigade called. Next day I was confronted by a rather irate Laira Driver who explained the reason for the fire in no uncertain terms and that it was OK as it would have quickly burned itself out and I should have left well alone as my actions resulted in a substantial delay to his train! This would have been around the 1983 mark.
 

Taunton

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Actually like you say there have been a lot of bad accidents between Reading and London over the years.
In fact, it does seem that almost a majority of serious UK railway accidents of the recent era have occurred in the London suburban area. Clapham, Ladbroke Grove, Southall, going right back to Hither Green, Harrow and Lewisham. The Metropolitan Police have certainly come in for more than their fair share of serious rail accidents.

If I remember correctly, the Maidenhead fire was caused by incompetent implementation of ISO 9000 so-called "quality procedures". The fitters' torque spanners had been determined in this procedure to need recalibrating every 6 months. However there was no test equipment available to do so. On their expiry they were withdrawn from use, to comply with the new procedure. However there was nothing in the procedure to prevent the use of normal spanners, so the fitter just used one of those on a fuel tank, to an incorrect tightness, whereupon the tank later fell off.
 

Peter Mugridge

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In fact, it does seem that almost a majority of serious UK railway accidents of the recent era have occurred in the London suburban area. Clapham, Ladbroke Grove, Southall, going right back to Hither Green, Harrow and Lewisham. The Metropolitan Police have certainly come in for more than their fair share of serious rail accidents.

If I remember correctly, the Maidenhead fire was caused by incompetent implementation of ISO 9000 so-called "quality procedures".

On the first point, with a high proportion of the UK's daily rail services being in the London area it is perhaps statistically natural that a high proportion of accidents will occur in the area; are there any statistics that show if this proportion was higher than elsewhere in the country?

For the second point - ISO 9002 can do worse than that; if those implementing it are not careful it can even actually enshrine a bad procedure. All it is really is a system which ensures that something is always done in a set manner and with a set paperwork trail. If a bad procedure is being done and that methodology gets written in to the original submission, it can be very difficult to get it changed after accreditation has been granted.
 
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Friday 16th February 1979. 253 021 formed W43043/42, 41043/44, 40307, 42045/64/65/104 working the FO 18.41 Paddington-Swansea hit an object placed on the track near Tilehurst. Fuel tank of W43042 was punctured leading to a fire at front of the set. W43042, 42056/104 required fire damage and underframe repairs at Derby Works. The set was present on S.P.Marsh, minus W43042, W42064/65/104 on 19th February 1979. I believe the full set was moved to Old Oak Common, before being split, but it was probably stabled in and around the Reading area, at least for some part of Saturday 17th February.

Here is a couple of shots of the ruptured fuel tank and scorched rear of W43042

Wow, that could well be it!!!
 
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Thanks all, knocked back at the response there! Pretty sure there was snow on the ground at the time of our visit - those 70s winters - and in retrospect somewhat amazed how easy it was for a bunch of schoolkids to wander around the yard there unchallenged! Maybe they thought those public information scare-a-thons on the TV were prevention enough...
 
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