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We've got the Key, it's no secret... (Smartcards on GTR)

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Richardr

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I've had my seson ticket loaded on a Key. It took a few days, so I assume the local station (St Albans City) sent it away.

On return, they take the original season ticket, and instead one gets a "Gold Record Card" which isn't valid for travel, but tells you the details including the expiry date.
 
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jon0844

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Ah that's good. I did wonder if they gave you the record card or it arrived in the post later.
 

Richardr

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Having worked well the first couple of weeks, the Key is failing to open the gates at Blackfriars or City Thameslink this week - and I'm not the only person for whom this is happening. I assume something has been reprogrammed within the London area - the card works fine at St Albans.
 

mattdickinson

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Having worked well the first couple of weeks, the Key is failing to open the gates at Blackfriars or City Thameslink this week - and I'm not the only person for whom this is happening. I assume something has been reprogrammed within the London area - the card works fine at St Albans.

Is there an error code displayed on the gate?
 

Richardr

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Yes - checking this morning, it shows 57 on the right hand side for me as well.

That's three London stations where it is happening (Moorgate, City Thameslink and Blackfriars).
 

JaJaWa

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You'd think a card called "the key" would actually open the gates!
 

paddyk

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Yes - checking this morning, it shows 57 on the right hand side for me as well.

That's three London stations where it is happening (Moorgate, City Thameslink and Blackfriars).

I rang customer service and the bloke i got through to reckoned as my season ticket is for London terminals, the key wont work at Moorgate because its not a London terminal.....this is despite previous call to CS telling me that my route was fully covered for the key.

I rang straight back and spoke to a different person who told me that Moorgate is covered by the key and that they were looking into why it doesnt work.

Usual incompetent staff from WAGN . FCC, Govia or whatever they call themselves this week, they are all the same
 

jon0844

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Moorgate no longer being a London Terminal would be stitching up rather a lot of commuters every single day.

I am quite flabbergasted that anyone* could say it isn't!

I wonder if this is down to the social media team now covering all of the TSGN routes, and maybe having little to no knowledge of some of the routes? Now when every account announces that 'Bob is signing off for the night', Twitter starts to alert me as if it's trending because all four Twitter accounts send it at once!

* Well, perhaps not someone living on Mars who doesn't use trains here regularly.
 
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mattdickinson

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I rang customer service and the bloke i got through to reckoned as my season ticket is for London terminals, the key wont work at Moorgate because its not a London terminal.....this is despite previous call to CS telling me that my route was fully covered for the key.

I rang straight back and spoke to a different person who told me that Moorgate is covered by the key and that they were looking into why it doesnt work.

Usual incompetent staff from WAGN . FCC, Govia or whatever they call themselves this week, they are all the same

The problem is that the only valid London Terminal from St Albans is St Pancras (due to the rule about not passing through Farringdon)

The tickets should be issued to London Thameslink, at the same price.
 

paddyk

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i'll give it a week then go back to paper ticket if they dont get it sorted.
 

Richardr

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It is possible there is more than one issue, but I have a London Thameslink ticket on the Key smartcard that from this week doesn't work at Blackfriars or City Thameslink, whereas last week it did, and it should - there shouldn't be any debate on whether those two stations are valid.
 

jon0844

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There must be a simple error that has nothing to do with the ticket validity, and customer services are unaware of.

What would make sense is for customer services to make their own enquiries, once realising that a fair few people are reporting problems. Likewise, gateline staff should be reporting problems rather than just opening gates and letting people through (IME some show more interest than others about such matters).
 

talldave

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I rang customer service and the bloke i got through to reckoned as my season ticket is for London terminals, the key wont work at Moorgate because its not a London terminal.....this is despite previous call to CS telling me that my route was fully covered for the key.

I rang straight back and spoke to a different person who told me that Moorgate is covered by the key and that they were looking into why it doesnt work.

Usual incompetent staff from WAGN . FCC, Govia or whatever they call themselves this week, they are all the same

You get a different level of incompetence depending on whether you phone or email. On the phone you get the wrong answer to the question you asked whereas by email you'll get the wrong answer to the question you didn't ask. I've never come across a company so stunningly incompetent and ignorant of its own products.

The key is a waste of time until they get their act together and actually understand it. What you're experiencing shows that there's no regression testing of barrier updates.
 

billc.cn

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Southern customers who had the key first would need to use those Thamelink terminals as well, so it's quite unthinkable that the card would be refused. Probably some IT f**k up with TSGN.

BTW, southern customer service might be more familiar with the key and may be more competent if the question does not involved TSGN-specific routes.
 

ntg

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Has anyone attempted to use their The Key travelcaard on a bus yet? I tried a few days ago on the 19 through Chelsea.

Of course, it did not work. So I had nice 15 minute walk down Kings Road instead. The GN Rail twitter account did not provide assistance.
 

Mike395

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Has anyone attempted to use their The Key travelcaard on a bus yet? I tried a few days ago on the 19 through Chelsea.

Of course, it did not work. So I had nice 15 minute walk down Kings Road instead. The GN Rail twitter account did not provide assistance.

Mine works fine on buses - though I need to hold it on the reader a second or so longer than an Oyster card, and it very occasionally takes a couple of goes before I get a green light.
 

jon0844

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Mine works fine on buses - though I need to hold it on the reader a second or so longer than an Oyster card, and it very occasionally takes a couple of goes before I get a green light.

That's pretty poor. I know they'll be a little slower (like contactless cards) but you should still not have to try more than once.
 

Feathers44

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That's pretty poor. I know they'll be a little slower (like contactless cards) but you should still not have to try more than once.

I generally have to try more than once with contactless cards (OK, 50% of the time) so I think it''s par for the course, really.
 

jon0844

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I wonder if there are differences in card design, such as the antenna loops inside? Maybe one supplier is better than others?

My Lloyds debit card works even before I get close to tapping most readers. I can almost hold the card sideways and it will work, and quickly too.

I've not tried a payment on a bus/tube though, as I don't get the discount. Maybe I should just to see if it's as easy there.
 

stut

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One probably stupid question... The way I'm reading the GTR website implies that you have to touch in and out on all tickets, and failure to do so means you're effectively travelling without a ticket. Does that also apply to season tickets? Seems unnecesarily harsh if so.

Also, has anyone on the GN side managed to use a London Terminals smartcard on the Tube to Moorgate?
 

paddyk

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One probably stupid question... The way I'm reading the GTR website implies that you have to touch in and out on all tickets, and failure to do so means you're effectively travelling without a ticket. Does that also apply to season tickets? Seems unnecesarily harsh if so.

Also, has anyone on the GN side managed to use a London Terminals smartcard on the Tube to Moorgate?

I am hoping that now the gates at Moorgate are working that they will work on the kings cross tube side too....
 

jon0844

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One probably stupid question... The way I'm reading the GTR website implies that you have to touch in and out on all tickets, and failure to do so means you're effectively travelling without a ticket. Does that also apply to season tickets? Seems unnecesarily harsh if so.

Actually, I think it's very sensible because it could effectively rule out doughnutting. We probably all know that there must be a LOT of people buying annual seasons on Oyster (Z1-2) to operate the gates in London and travel around London, and perhaps then combine with a paper ticket (or potentially another smartcard, like The Key) at the other end.

By making it so you must touch in and out, especially given there's no option to add on journeys like Oyster (using PAYG if you go beyond the validity), you'd have the inconvenience of having to step off the train to tap out/in.

It might a good idea to install a few more standalone readers though at stations.
 
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stut

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By making it so you must touch in and out, especially given there's no option to add on journeys like Oyster (using PAYG if you go beyond the validity), you'd have the inconvenience of having to step off the train to tap out/in.

How would it work then, say, if you wanted to travel to York, taking advantage of rule 19?

It would certainly put me off using the scheme - particularly as I'm not at all convinced I'd remember to touch in at Biggleswade when I'm bleary-eyed in the morning!
 

LexyBoy

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How would it work then, say, if you wanted to travel to York, taking advantage of rule 19?

I suspect you'd probably be OK using a smartcard season with a paper single/return (although the T&Cs say you would be eligible for a Penalty Fare), but it's probably going to be quite effective to stop split ticketing and stopping/starting short with non-season ticket(s) on smartcards.

Quite a boon for the TOC really - save a packet on admin and staffing, do away with some inconvenient passenger rights - and pass on none of the saving the the travelling public!
 
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jon0844

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How would it work then, say, if you wanted to travel to York, taking advantage of rule 19?

It would certainly put me off using the scheme - particularly as I'm not at all convinced I'd remember to touch in at Biggleswade when I'm bleary-eyed in the morning!

The Key seems like a mess for a lot of things. The inability to chuck a Travelcard on it (season or daily) and then go beyond the zones and pay extra means it's just as inconvenient as a regular paper ticket - and you need to go and buy a separate ticket extension.

And of course you can't add tickets outside of the covered area, which is quite restricted.

Personally, I am just waiting for Oyster to come to my station hopefully next March or so. Then I'll have no real need for the Key at all.
 

ntg

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I just waiting for Oyster to come to my station hopefully next March or so. Then I'll have no real need for the Key at all.

Me too. If I'm still living in Potters Bar I will dump the key for an Oyster card.

I am assuming the delay is the move to back-office processing on Oyster.
 
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