What’s going on with Thameslink?

[zwk500]

I have just been told by GTR that there is no platform space at London Bridge to set up a contingency services from Redhill route to London Bridge when these failures happen. Appreciate this morning there is also a fire at London Bridge but is that actually true?

Assume TL would use 10-15 and not 4/5 to turn round and head back south

Using 10-15 requires pulling out Southern services. There really isn't a lot of space going spare at London Bridge. GTR will often do this, but there's only so much you can do with 1 platform slot per half hour.

 

[Surreytraveller]

East Midlands a total sham this morning. Total disaster. At least Thameslink have a few services moving

 

[theageofthetra]

I have just been told by GTR that there is no platform space at London Bridge to set up a contingency services from Redhill route to London Bridge when these failures happen. Appreciate this morning there is also a fire at London Bridge but is that actually true?

Assume TL would use 10-15 and not 4/5 to turn round and head back south

Most ex Charing Cross SE were using the 4 down this morning to get to Lewisham due to a points failure. That wouldn't have helped as it further delayed TL services.

 

[Magdalia]

Which begs the question as to why it’s so bad now.

The number of disruptions is increasing.

There's been a lot of extreme weather this summer.

I don't have any figures, but the cost of living crisis can be expected to increase the number of attempted suicides.

Network Rail are trying to cut costs on infrastructure maintenance, which is likely to mean more failures.

But I do worry that the disruptions and poor response to them are becoming endemic, through the impact on the people working on the front line. By that I don't just mean the customer facing people, but also, for example, the drivers and controllers. When disruptions are infrequent, the people managing the recovery will be in the alarm phase of the stress response, with the adrenalin flowing. But, with this frequency of disruption, some people will be moving from the alarm phase to the resistance phase of the stress response, primarily cortisol not adrenalin. This is not conducive to delivering a good service recovery, or the long term health of the people exposed to it, and is probably leading to increased sickness rates.

This is all exacerbated by the industrial relations situation.

 

[mlb54]

I have asked the the same question. in particular why is the afternoon so poor.

I asked the same question last strike day - The answer, Due to crew and stock displacement from the Strike Day.

 

[Junglemornings]

Looks like more trouble on the Peterborough - Hitchin section again, trains stacking up rapidly on the down fast, no doubt we will see no trains to Cambridge again as a result. Pretty unfortunate set of events this morning.

 

[MikeWM]

GTR never seem to be able to properly recover from any disruption, so the increased number of infrastructure issues we're also seeing (weather? cutting costs? bad luck?) just leads to meltdown day after day.

I've been posting about this inability to recover service for years. I don't know *why* they seem less able to recover than other TOCs; maybe the network is too complex, maybe the drivers don't have the right routes or the depots in the right places, maybe the control need more staff; operationally I've no idea. But the problem isn't new.

I asked the same question last strike day - The answer, Due to crew and stock displacement from the Strike Day.

Err, yes, but doesn't that apply to all TOCs? What makes GTR so special that they can't cope when most others can?

 

[A0wen]

This morning there is a level crossing failure near Hitchin, points failure at Holloway South Jn, track circuit failure near Earlswood, possession from yesterday's overhead wire problems was handed back late and a person hit by a train at Elstree.

I didn't think there were any level crossings on the ECML that far down - I thought the furthest south were Langford (near Biggleswade) and Ashwell & Morden on the Cambridge line ?

 

[43066]

East Midlands a total sham this morning. Total disaster. At least Thameslink have a few services moving

Fatality early this morning meant the line was closed - hence trains and crews massively displaced.

maybe the network is too complex, maybe the drivers don't have the right routes or the depots in the right places

Complex, widespread network, long journeys, limited and depot specific route knowledge so drivers unable to easily cross cover.

 

[XIX7007177]

At what point can the core be declared a failed experiment? Especially the Peterborough- Horsham route.

 

[Edsmith]

Yep! Having used to live in Rochester I can attest to how unreliable Thameslink have been since they took over the Medway service, I currently live in Blackheath and I regularly hear those coming from the Woolwich line grumbling about how bad the service can be.

Especially since it leaves Higham with large gaps between trains (High Speed trains don’t call there so they’re left with only Thameslink)

Now that CrossRail has opened at Abbey Wood, Medway and Gravesend commuters have been calling for better services to Abbey Wood.

Southeastern aren’t perfect but the old semi fast CX-Gillingham service was 9 times out of ten a very reliable and useful service that is much missed.



It doesn’t even benefit any station east of Charlton much, the Elizabeth line is the game changer for this area, faster to Farringdon too, over the last four years whenever I’ve had to use the Rainham service I’ve noticed that not many people use it beyond Blackfriars and that it pretty much empties out at London Bridge as more people either change for Charing Cross trains or they’ve reached the end of their commute to London.

Unfortunately I don’t see any changes to services around the Woolwich line occurring any time soon, even though the novelty of they Thameslink has long since worn off.



the Gravesend/Medway end are dissatisfied with Thameslink and they’re right to be, for the first two years it ran an hourly services and it’s usually the first service that gets cancelled whenever there’s disruption.

I agree completely that Thameslink offers little benefit east of Charlton now that Crossrail is up and running, the only saving grace is that it offers a service from Deptford Greenwich Maze Hill and Westcombe Park to somewhere other than Cannon Street.

Higham really does get a raw deal, often left with virtually no service at all unless Southeastern stop a HS train there.

I was told by staff that the Thameslink service to Rainham is just for operational convenience rather than any benefits to passengers.

Ideally the Southeastern Charing Cross service via Lewisham and Woolwich Arsenal would be reinstated although it would probably be all stations now.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Fatality early this morning meant the line was closed - hence trains and crews massively displaced.

Indeed. What I'm saying is, its not only GTR, other companies don't shower themselves in competence dealing with incidents either

 

[Bikeman78]

What I don't understand is how they make no effort to improve the Horsham - Croydon provision. There have been a lot of issues (not all of GTR's making) north of Kings Cross (loads of dewirements for some reason?!) but it's always seems to be like Faygate, Littlehaven and the like are totally binned off with no real attempt to substitute them for anything. I'd certainly be miffed as to why as a Sussex resident I've got a severely reduced service due to a problem in Hertfordshire.

I appreciate why (through running in the core and platform availability) but the average passenger won't and I think GTR's contingencies aren't robust enough if this is the only solution.

As someone with family near Littlehaven I can observe first hand how poor the service has got. At least there is the option of stopping Southern trains on that section but it's a lottery. Will the extra stops go on the train five minutes earlier, 25 minutes later or none at all? There doesn't seem to be any official policy and it's down to the controller on duty at the time. We're four years in now and no sign of improvement. It's much safer to walk to Horsham.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Fire near L.Bdge has caused utter chaos but all lines now available but Thameslink seem to have taken the decion to run a reduced service for the rest of the day. 9Rxx all canned off and other service groups reduced.

Yes its not their fault and i get it takes time to restore normality but to can off services for rest day seems an incorrect response especially as more people are travelling today given restrictive service tomorrow.

 

[infobleep]

Does anyone know why a shuttle service between Redhill and Horsham couldn't be run this morning?

During some parts of the morning there was only 1 train an hour between Redhill and Gatwick Airport and this was being run by Great Western Railway. When they finally have 2 GWR trains an hour to Gataick Airport, that will ease things for those wanting to head south.

 

[Jturner98]

2 days in a row now. Getting ridiculous this service

 

[johncrossley]

Complex, widespread network, long journeys, limited and depot specific route knowledge so drivers unable to easily cross cover.

Meaning that the Thameslink concept is flawed?

 

[JonathanH]

Does anyone know why a shuttle service between Redhill and Horsham couldn't be run this morning?

The trains that ran went further north as that is where the majority of passengers will have wanted to go. There were a few London to Horsham services via Redhill at about 0900.

Deciding where to turn trains short represents a challenge in trying to cater for the most passengers.

 

[Edsmith]

At what point can the core be declared a failed experiment? Especially the Peterborough- Horsham route.

It's a really useful service when it's running properly.

Do Horsham drivers go all the way to Peterborough and vice versa or changeover at Finsbury Park?

 

[infobleep]

The trains that ran went further north as that is where the majority of passengers will have wanted to go. There were a few London to Horsham services via Redhill at about 0900.

Deciding where to turn trains short represents a challenge in trying to cater for the most passengers.

I do accept it is a balancing act.

There are two southern trains an hour to Victoria but if all the Thameslink go north, that leaves just one train south.

Of course, between 8 and 9, there was only 1 Victoria train north as the other had a fault and no Thameslink services whatsoever, yet there were 2 services south. So at times people heading south did better than those heading north

 

[londonmidland]

Flooding caused by torrential rain on the MML north of St. Pancras is causing disruption. All lines currently blocked whilst Network Rail inspect the lines.

 

[XIX7007177]

It's a really useful service when it's running properly.

Do Horsham drivers go all the way to Peterborough and vice versa or changeover at Finsbury Park?

Running properly is a rarity.

The change in 2018 also cut off Peterborough, Huntingdon, St.Neots, Sandy, Biggleswade and Arlesy from a direct service to Knebworth, Welwyn, Hatfield and Potters Bar. Hardly progress.

They also opened a Depot at Welwyn, so any staff can’t get directly there by train if they live north of Hitchin on the ECML…..genius decision.

 

[Railcar]

Before the fire at London Bridge today, Thameslink were playing their 'Deceive The passengers' game. On the concourse at 10.00 a Cambridge train was shown as 'arrived' (it wasn't - the platform 5 indicator said 'delayed' until that train disappeared to be replaced as the '1st Train' by a Bedford in '4 minutes' or 'due' (it didn't come). As I headed for the Northern Line I felt sorry for the baffled passengers who were stuck waiting for a train, any train, to carry them across London. Then , of course, London Bridge Underground was tipped out by the fire. Fortunately a No.21 bus got me to Moorgate and a Great Northern took me to Finsbury Park

Thameslink were playing 'Deceive The passengers' at Finsbury park this afternoon. Platform signs said 'STAND CLEAR OF THE PLATFORM EDGE. THE NEXT TRAIN MAY NOT BE STOPPING. The Thameslink train that pulled into platform 2 was showing 'Horsham'. It stopped and the driver enabled door opening and we all piled in. At St.P the driver announced that the train would be running fast from London Bridge to Three Bridges! (it was running late). The driver repeated his message at Farringdon, City TL and Blackfriars. Good for him! I tried to check at Blackfriars and London Bridge whether the passengers on the platform were given this 'running fast' information. On the screens there was a blur of wriiting - too much to read at a glance.

The OP asks "What's going on with Thameslink?" 'Deceiving passengers' is the answer.

 

[WizCastro197]

Yes I went to Redhill this morning to get to Victoria
I tried to avoid Thameslink.
(Lucky I decided to go with Redhill as the Gatwick airport-Redhill portion was cancelled. Was going to go from Earlswood but coundlt actually be bothered to walk it!
(Not sure why probably this circuit failure)
A Thameslink Rolled in as I entered fully packed was about an hour late I think.
I saw Fast Gwtick Express and fast thameslinks being placed down the centre tracks between platforms 3-2.

Also does anyone else know what has happened to the PIS screens at platforms at Victoria? All of them are not displaying anything, not even showing "check timetable for services"?
Even the Southeastern ones as well.

Yes there was a fire at London Bridge only a few lines were shut but I think have now reopened.
They’ve reported the following:

• A person was hit by a train earlier today between Bedford and London St Pancras International
• A points failure earlier at Finsbury Park
• Fault with the level crossing barriers earlier today at Royston
• There is an ongoing fault with the signalling system between Salfords and Coulsdon South. Some trains may be diverted via Redhill which will cause delays to services.

This is Super Unrelated but I can’t get why people cram these Reigate services just to get to east Croydon. The 16:28 was past Standing Room only when it arrived at ECR just for about 2/3 of the passengers to leave? Why do people get on a train with very few coaches When the the next fast to ECR could be formed of 8-12? Plenty more space. Stupid Question, I feel rather stupid today as I didn't realise that Southern Services to Forest Hill ran from ECR so I went allll the way to Victoria tubed it to LBG and got a train from there where I realised I could've just gone from ECR! Other people on that train confused me heavily, They saw ECR on the board but didn't realise that it was a stopping service, the Driver made 2 or 3 announcements 2 minutes apart where people had a large gap of opportunity to leave the train and get onto a fast/ semi-fast service to ECR! Then all I could hear was the grumbling and moaning of passengers

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Deciding where to turn trains short represents a challenge in trying to cater for the most passengers.

Last time i checked the railway is here to provide a service for passengers that's what they pay for. Now it does suffer from many 3rd party events completely outwith its control, like todays fire, that undermine its ability to provide that service but they should have robust contingency plans.

The service from Redhill was screwed up from the outset with virtually the entire Northbound TL service all canned off until 1000. These are 12 car trains and whilst we may not be at 2019 levels of passenger demand they have significantly improved, especially midweek, so people need a service especially as tomorrow isn't going to be great. Oh and this was before the fire incident broke out yet there is no attempt to provide even 1 TLk/hr to London Bridge or even E.Croydon. Yes its not straightforward to have a platform blocked while the driver changes end at either location but seems to me the railway continues to favour worrying about PPM rather than doing its best to get people from A to B.

 

[JonathanH]

Oh and this was before the fire incident broke out yet there is no attempt to provide even 1 TLk/hr to London Bridge or even E.Croydon.

A few Brighton Thameslink trains went via Redhill northbound to fill some of the gaps.

 

[WizCastro197]

I have just been told by GTR that there is no platform space at London Bridge to set up a contingency services from Redhill route to London Bridge when these failures happen. Appreciate this morning there is also a fire at London Bridge but is that actually true?

Assume TL would use 10-15 and not 4/5 to turn round and head back south

I actually saw a few days ago that Southern ran a few services per hour into London Bridge as oppose to the Regular Victoria. Perhaps a small trial for the contingency plans to see if it could work efficiently?

 

[Bikeman78]

Before the fire at London Bridge today, Thameslink were playing their 'Deceive The passengers' game. On the concourse at 10.00 a Cambridge train was shown as 'arrived' (it wasn't - the platform 5 indicator said 'delayed' until that train disappeared to be replaced as the '1st Train' by a Bedford in '4 minutes' or 'due' (it didn't come). As I headed for the Northern Line I felt sorry for the baffled passengers who were stuck waiting for a train, any train, to carry them across London. Then , of course, London Bridge Underground was tipped out by the fire. Fortunately a No.21 bus got me to Moorgate and a Great Northern took me to Finsbury Park

Thameslink were playing 'Deceive The passengers' at Finsbury park this afternoon. Platform signs said 'STAND CLEAR OF THE PLATFORM EDGE. THE NEXT TRAIN MAY NOT BE STOPPING. The Thameslink train that pulled into platform 2 was showing 'Horsham'. It stopped and the driver enabled door opening and we all piled in. At St.P the driver announced that the train would be running fast from London Bridge to Three Bridges! (it was running late). The driver repeated his message at Farringdon, City TL and Blackfriars. Good for him! I tried to check at Blackfriars and London Bridge whether the passengers on the platform were given this 'running fast' information. On the screens there was a blur of wriiting - too much to read at a glance.

The OP asks "What's going on with Thameslink?" 'Deceiving passengers' is the answer.

Still chaos at 16:15. Screens at St Pancras southbound didn't have a clue what was coming next. First train was 15:42 Sutton shown as delayed followed by a cancelled Brighton train. In fact the first train was the 15:57 Sutton running 30 late followed by a Horsham train.

 

[WizCastro197]

Someone may have mentioned before but Earlswood was void of a London bound service this morning with the only departure being the 09:01 to Victoria. The 09:31 was cancelled but still joined at Redhill. Probably Ran fast from Gatwick skipping Horley Salfords and Earlswood. Very Disappointing for local residents and commuters who have absolutely no access to London (and beyond) except for driving to Redhill and having to pay the overpriced parking fare.

Also very strange, Unrelated but my train exited the slow line when they join before Purley. It was then placed onto the fast line for Purley, stopped on the fast line, and continued on the Fast until it rejoined the slow at the Crossover before ECR? Why did this happen I've never seen it before? Normally if routed on the fast line from Redhill it continues into ECR PLt1 not switches back onto the slow line when after a couple minutes then has to rejoin the fast line to reach Clapham? Normally those Trains on Sunday from Portsmouth and Bognor.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Someone may have mentioned before but Earlswood was void of a London bound service this morning with the only departure being the 09:01 to Victoria. The 09:31 was cancelled but still joined at Redhill. Probably Ran fast from Gatwick skipping Horley Salfords and Earlswood. Very Disappointing for local residents and commuters who have absolutely no access to London (and beyond) except for driving to Redhill and having to pay the overpriced parking fare.

Also very strange, Unrelated but my train exited the slow line when they join before Purley. It was then placed onto the fast line for Purley, stopped on the fast line, and continued on the Fast until it rejoined the slow at the Crossover before ECR? Why did this happen I've never seen it before? Normally if routed on the fast line from Redhill it continues into ECR PLt1 not switches back onto the slow line when after a couple minutes then has to rejoin the fast line to reach Clapham? Normally those Trains on Sunday from Portsmouth and Bognor.

Should be pleased that sounds like a signaller doing a bit of smart regulating to get your train round a stopping service on the Slows. Used to happen all the time but rare these days as signallers get beaten up if they show a bit of initiative and it doesn't work.