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What’s happened to the NRM?

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Raul_Duke

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Before today, my last proper trip to the NRM was a few years ago, and whilst it wasn’t as good as I remember it being in my childhood, it was a reasonable day out with a fair bit to see and do.

Today I decided to take my young son, and to be honest I wish I hadn’t bothered.

There’s a few locomotives in the great hall, but not nearly as many as their used to be. A large portion of space is taken up by the cafe and shop.

Through the courtyard and under the round (past the other two cafes) brings you to the second shop and the station hall, which again, is taken up roughly 1/4 by yet another cafe.

I remember this bit being full of wagons and such like, but apart from the Royal Train and and a couple of wagons it’s mainly the cafe.

The outdoor play area was shut and doesnt look like it will reopen as according to the notice they are “looking at other options for play areas.”

The interactive learning zone was shut, on a Saturday, in half term.

The diesel marquee bit(?) is no longer open to the public.

I’d say roughly 70/80% (no exaggeration) of interactive exhibits were out of order.

I’m in no way a hardcore train spotter, but it was absolutely rubbish. I did make a donation on entering as did most other people, but I really hope this is a temporary dip and not a sign of the national collection being run into the ground?
 
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a_c_skinner

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Entry is free, they need to make money. Unless it has changed a huge amount in a year I think you've underestimated exhibits. Mind you Bill Bryson says the same has happened at the Natural History Museum, for the same reasons.
 

underbank

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Have to agree with the OP here. I went over New Year and was pretty disappointed. Loads of empty space in the old hall and absolutely nothing around the back of it which used to be full and very lively. There used to be so much to see, but I suppose the amount of locos etc moved up to Locomotion has left quite a void which they've not filled. As for it being "free", that's a bit misleading given how much pressure the "greeters" put on you to pay the "suggested donation" and of course, they now get far more money from Central Government than they did when they charged.
 

Glenmutchkin

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If you are looking for a proper Railway Museum try this one.

http://www.srps.org.uk/related/sre.htm

The Scottish Railway Exhibition was opened in 1995 in a purpose-built 15,000 sq. foot exhibition hall beside Bo'ness Station. The building has 850ft of display tracks, on which stand a wide variety of vehicles, mainly goods wagons illustrating the diversity of traffic which the railways once carried. Coal, seed potatoes, fish, wooden crates and barrels, gunpowder and even an Army tank, general and special wagons for these and other goods are presented for the enjoyment of visitors. Display boards provide background information and period photographs show the railway as it was when the wagons were built. And you can try to imagine what it was like to ride at the end of the Carlisle freight in the Caledonian Railway brake van!

You do have to pay but you get a discount if you also take a ride on the Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway.
 
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I was in today and I have to agree. For the most part the labels on exhibits are childish and an insult; this is a branch of the science museum but barely any detailed technical data on the exhibits is evident. Quite a few things are broken and the whole place needs someone with imagination to sort it out. It doesn't need millions for a makeover but a determined campaign to improve each area and make the whole thing a richer experience.
 

alexl92

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Since they reorganised the Station Hall a few years back, that section has been really lame. The Royal Train section now feels very half-hearted and the rest is lacking any real interest.
I also find that the Great Hall is much less interesting than it was in the past, and the lack of access to, and exhibits in the diesel marquee at the back is disappointing.

And as for the donation thing... I'd gladly give a fiver every time I go because I recognise what such a museum costs to upkeep, but the pressure I've been put under sometimes to donate is not okay.

I love this museum and I want to want to go back again and again... but I just don't get that any more.
 
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Similar feelings here. I understand the need to obtain funds with a nominal free entry scheme but when the catering side outways the railway exhibits then I will not be returning. Seems the NRM has lost the lost the plot somewhere along the line. As the title includes the word National I would suggest all the most important exhibits should be based at York not outsourced around the regions.
 

70014IronDuke

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Before today, my last proper trip to the NRM was a few years ago, and whilst it wasn’t as good as I remember it being in my childhood, it was a reasonable day out with a fair bit to see and do.

Today I decided to take my young son, and to be honest I wish I hadn’t bothered.

There’s a few locomotives in the great hall, but not nearly as many as their used to be. A large portion of space is taken up by the cafe and shop.

.....
I’d say roughly 70/80% (no exaggeration) of interactive exhibits were out of order.

I’m in no way a hardcore train spotter, but it was absolutely rubbish. ....

That's what you say. I suspect you are just fooling yourself, and there just weren't enough cops for you.

If you go on Tripadviser (note correct spelling)
https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attract...lway_Museum-York_North_Yorkshire_England.html

72% of 14,800-odd respondents say it is excellent, 22% say it is very good.

Most people don't go to the Railway Museum to spot new numbers, nor even even to learn about railways. They just want somewhere to put the kids while they play with their i-phones and sip lattes.

14,800 reviewers can't possibly be wrong. For goodness sake, you've got to get modern, and forget about those days standing on the ends of platforms with your Ian Allen combined volume hoping to clear your Class 40s.

:) OK, I'll admit it: I'm on a wind up. Seriously, what if you were a "hardcore trainspotter"? Is that any more strange than, say, a 'hard-core golfer'? And if you were, presumably you'd still be peeved with the visit.

But lots of folk DO seem happy with the place.

So I'm intrigued. I must say. But - as a later poster noted - it is very sad indeed if technical infomation is not available. A kid of 10-12 won't understand entropy, but he or she might understand - to some extent - 'superheated steam' and what that means - and that's the kind of science he or she could and should be able to learn from a visit to the NRM, I'd have thought.
 

Iskra

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The written information has to be able to be understood by the 'normal visitor,' it's a compromise. I visited last December on a Tuesday afternoon I went expecting to kill an hour. 4 hours later I was still there, I spent 45 minutes talking in the cab of Mallard with a volunteer who had more knowledge than I could possibly consume. It's there if you want it, but I suspect most don't want that level of information.
 

43096

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And as for the donation thing... I'd gladly give a fiver every time I go because I recognise what such a museum costs to upkeep, but the pressure I've been put under sometimes to donate is not okay.
Tell them you'll make a donation on the way out, based on whether you think the visit has been worthwhile.

If more people did that, it might focus minds a bit more as to what is provided inside.
 

87electric

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I don't like being confronted with the hard sell donation at the point of entrance. I agree with "43096" on this one. Free actually means subsidised anyway (since 2001).
 

alexl92

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The written information has to be able to be understood by the 'normal visitor,' it's a compromise. I visited last December on a Tuesday afternoon I went expecting to kill an hour. 4 hours later I was still there, I spent 45 minutes talking in the cab of Mallard with a volunteer who had more knowledge than I could possibly consume. It's there if you want it, but I suspect most don't want that level of information.

That is encouraging to hear. The problem I think is that on a quiet Tuesday afternoon they can do that. When I've been during half terms (I work in education) or Saturdays, there is hardly a volunteer to be seen - or at least it feels that way; I am fully aware it may just be the number of volunteers compared to the volume of people. That's not intended to knock the volunteers though - those I've spoken to have been both lovely and knowledgeable. I was lucky enough to get on Dominion of Canada's footplate during the Mallard75 celebrations and the old bloke who was explaining was great.

I don't go as a spotter, I have to say. I just want to see interesting stuff and learn about it, especially the engineering behind it.

I wonder if they could make it so that where they have an info board about a particular exhibit, they have two sections to it - one with more general, layman-friendly info such as class (if a loco), date & location of build, which company, where it was located or worked, what it did, top speed etc, and then another section with more technical details - for example more details about design, construction, any innovative features etc. What we should remember is that the technical details can interest anyone who has a general interest in engineering - not just rail enthusiasts.

I have a friend who is a car nut but we have had conversations in the past where he's been interested to understand how electric locos work, or how other aspects of railway engineering, design etc work or have been developed. I imagine if he visited (which he has a few times) he'd be really interested to read about stuff like why a particular loco was a big success or wasn't - e.g. the problems with the Class 52s (according to Wikipedia) of the engine and gearbox not being well matched for each other, and where relevant what changes were made to solve it.

In my mind, it's similar to kids' tv programs including jokes that only parents will get - the whole thing isn't directly aimed at parents, but things are included to make it more bearable or even entertaining for them. The NRM has to cater for average Joe first and foremost I think it also has to attempt to make it worthwhile for enthusiasts too.
 

zaph

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The problem started a few years back when the museum got a new director, who as far as I understand it was a bog standard civil servant, with little railway background. Alas it told. under his management he replaced railway exhibits with an art gallery, which few people were interested in. He stripped the station hall bare, it has only really begun to recover. It was almost as if he was embarrassed to run a railway museum.

Fortunately he ran out of cash before more damage could be done. I agree that the museum should be aimed at general visitors and have stuff for kids, it can't be just for enthusiasts, but you can do that without dumbing down. In some ways it is another version of old science and art divide. None of the people who run museums would dream of aiming an art gallery at the lowest level possible, but they assume that when it comes to science and engineering, they must aim as low as they can.

Alas the science museum group treats its northern museums with a degree of contempt. It threatened to close its northern museums to save the one in London. Just recently they screwed Mosi in Manchester by withdrawing the objection to cutting off the Mosi railway and the original Manchester and Liverpool railway station buildings from the railway network.

3 million bung from Network rail and objection withdrawn. I doubt the Northern museums will see a penny of that money.
 
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IanXC

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For all of you who are thinking that this is an inevitable result of the environment such museums operate in, I suggest you take a visit to Steam in Swindon.

The balance between specialist and generalist exhibits is absolutely spot on. Those who knew nothing about the GWR, or indeed the railway, will learn, but those who already have a detailed knowledge will also find many interesting exhibits and learn a great deal.

The conclusion I draw is that the Science Museum Group have lost the plot, and are completely shown up by Swindon Borough Council.
 

Bromley boy

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For the most part the labels on exhibits are childish and an insult; this is a branch of the science museum but barely any detailed technical data on the exhibits is evident.

I wonder if they could make it so that where they have an info board about a particular exhibit, they have two sections to it - one with more general, layman-friendly info such as class (if a loco), date & location of build, which company, where it was located or worked, what it did, top speed etc, and then another section with more technical details - for example more details about design, construction, any innovative features etc. What we should remember is that the technical details can interest anyone who has a general interest in engineering - not just rail enthusiasts.

Agree with you both.

I had similar sentiments on a recent visit. Far too little information is available about the exhibits.

I completely get that that they need to strike a balance between casual visitors and hardcore train geeks, but not even including basic info like class of loco, region it operated etc. is ridiculous.

Many of the labels just seem to say “main line steam loco”, with hardly any other information.

EDIT: it would be nice if they had more ex southern region stock. I know it isn’t the sexiest part of the railway but I’m sure it carries more passengers in a day than the ECML/WCMintercity expresses combined!
 
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Iskra

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I acknowledge this is not the ideal solution and will not suit all age-ranges, but perhaps the NRM could provide QR codes on exhibits that lead to more detailed information. A lot of the info is readily available, visitors just need pointing in the right direction. Most visitors could do this on their smartphones, a small number of tablet computers for loaning-out could be made-available for those that need.
 

philthetube

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I visited 10 years ago and felt that a day was not long enough to see everything, different story last year.
 

trash80

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EDIT: it would be nice if they had more ex southern region stock. I know it isn’t the sexiest part of the railway but I’m sure it carries more passengers in a day than the ECML/WCMintercity expresses combined!

Quite a lot of that up in Shildon, i visited both NRM sites last year i thought Shildon was a lot better :P
 

Bromley boy

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Quite a lot of that up in Shildon, i visited both NRM sites last year i thought Shildon was a lot better :P

Thanks I will have to give that a go. It’s a lot lower profile than the main museum, that’s for sure.
 

thejuggler

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Most of the North-East isn't, they break up on Thursday 29th.

Very mixed in terms of when schools finish for Easter. North Yorks finished on 22nd, some of S Yorks and W Yorkshire same.

I agree NRM is looking tired - but if you go to any museum regularly you may not see changes - most visitors go once and with what they do have it is easy to make it a full day out.

NRM is due a huge redevelopment and expansion - figures are stated at £50m - as part of the York central site redevelopment:

http://www.nrm.org.uk/aboutus/futureplans
 

433N

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A few years ago, I took the kids to the Science Museum in that London for the first time since I was a kid. I thought it was fairly rubbish compared to what it used to be ; long queues for wowee exhibits and little of educational value.
The NRM seemed to suffer in the same way the last time I went ... I don't know if it is just the modern way. I don't really feel the need to return to the NRM anytime soon.

It would be nice if there was some sort of chronological timeline / route through the museum so that the development of the railways could be clearly traced (I think some of the German rail / transport museums do this). I find the juxtaposition of locos from different eras to be rather bizarre - the Jackson Pollock approach to museum curation.
 

IanXC

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It would be nice if there was some sort of chronological timeline / route through the museum so that the development of the railways could be clearly traced (I think some of the German rail / transport museums do this). I find the juxtaposition of locos from different eras to be rather bizarre - the Jackson Pollock approach to museum curation.

Exactly what Steam at Swindon does! ;)
 

Islineclear3_1

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I visited Shildon over the weekend. SR EMUs are represented well, considering the limited space; there is the 2BIL 2090 (in excellent nick), a 4COR driving car (that I last remember seeing on the York NRM site), the Class 71 (tucked away) and a 2 Hap undergoing restoration. What more could one want from an SR perspective?
 

mushroomchow

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We had this thread a month or two back with much the same arguments, but initiated by a fella who didn't understand that it only takes a few clicks of a mouse to organise a meeting with some of the backroom staff who can indulge more specialist questions and queries. The whole rant had been kicked off by a few curmudgeons complaining about Tim Peake's space capsule visiting.

I came out on the side of "it's a general public attraction, you're never going to keep it viable without diversifying exhibits and accepting that paid staff aren't going to know the in-depth history of Dringhouses token box" if I recall.

That being said, it's not on if those interactive exhibits are for the most part not working - that's a cause for complaint.

IIRC, the NRM is on the cusp of a major new redevelopment to connect up the two sides and provide a new space between them, which may go some way to explaining why it seems a little ramshackle, but there's no real excuse for the closure of major parts of it or the dysfunction of exhibits.
 

M7R

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I took my 5 year old for the first time a few months back and I must admit it wasn’t as good as I remeber from my last visit about 7 years ago. The main issue was the diesel tent now being shut as my little one loves diesels so was looking forward to letting him lose in there,
 

peri

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Just been glancing at another thread and had a brainwave!
New exhibition "So you want to be a train driver".
Consoles where people can try various tests.
I donate this idea free of charge to the NRM in lieu of any more cash
they try to guilt out of me. I only pop in to read the magazines now.
 

Strat-tastic

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Just been glancing at another thread and had a brainwave!
New exhibition "So you want to be a train driver".
Consoles where people can try various tests.
I donate this idea free of charge to the NRM in lieu of any more cash
they try to guilt out of me. I only pop in to read the magazines now.

What an excellent idea.
 
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