What am I being Prosecuted for?

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by kaygee276, 9 Jan 2017.

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  1. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Yes, Byelaw 18 - boarding a train to travel without a valid ticket.
     
  2. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    If the photo was obvious, I guess the RPI could still take the ticket and photocard for a proper check (to see if either were tampered with) and look up the details supplied when the ticket was purchased, but then take no further action if everything checked out, besides making sure the ticket was re-issued with the correct number. Put the details on file, case closed.

    At the end of the day, the fuss was caused by incorrectly guessing a rather important number. Just as you would be well advised to check bank account details properly before accepting payment, or making one to someone else's details.

    Ultimately, just ignoring the issue and saying 'best get the ticket changed mate' might sound great, but what if there was something untoward going on?

    I can imagine that I could do the same fraud if I so wanted. I have my photocard and get my wife one. Chances are the numbers will be fairly similar if I got both the same day.

    Get my season and put on the right number. Write on my name as initial, surname. Her firstname begins J too. So J Morris would work for both.

    Now she borrows my ticket and uses her photocard that doesn't match. Gets stopped, and says 'whoops, I must have mistyped my number' and hopes to get let off...

    Clearly the photo and any other ID she would be carrying would match her face - it's the ticket that isn't actually hers. Even the address would check out. Where it would fail is if she gave her full name, which wouldn't then match the details on the application.

    And so it's right that there's an investigation IMO.
     
  3. Fare-Cop

    Fare-Cop Member

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    Title of thread = "What am I being prosecuted for?"

    I cannot see any evidence that the OP is being prosecuted.

    So, the emotively worded title seems intended to catch all of our collective attention and make us believe that someone has been dealt with wrongly and is being prosecuted.

    In the OP's own words, the inspector simply said 'the Prosecutions department will be in touch'.

    I agree, it might have been better if the inspector had said 'the company will be in touch', but he did not say 'You will be prosecuted', which is the inference given by the OP's choice of words in his title.



    That said, the best that can be done is to do as others have suggested. Buy tickets and keep them in hope that they can be refunded, wait for the letter from the TOC and be honest in your reply.

    The inspector followed the proper process and 'blame' cannot be apportioned to anyone else through indignation, or any other feeling of dissatisfaction.

    In simple terms, the OP consciously 'took a chance' and contributory negligence is the important factor in getting to where things are now.

    Hopefully, the TOC will accept your version of events and maybe you can achieve a mutually satisfactory resolution without further action.
     
    Last edited: 11 Jan 2017
  4. Pinza-C55

    Pinza-C55 Member

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    I think a non railway employee would reasonably infer that the phrase "the prosecutions department will be in touch" means "you are going to be prosecuted".
     
  5. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

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    While that is correct, I wonder to what extent that was made clear by the machine that issued the ticket? If the machine - when issuing a railcard season - displays an impossible-to-miss message pointing out that typing in the wrong number would result in the ticket being invalid and an attempt to travel with it being considered fraud, then the TOC would have a strong case. But I'm guessing the machine isn't programmed to do anything like that. If the machine asked for the railcard number without giving any indication of the importance of this information (and realistically, many passengers may genuinely not realize the importance of those numbers), the TOC's case against the OP becomes much weaker (and I wonder if you could even argue that the ticket would have been mis-sold?)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I would presume the TOC must also have some means of checking the number that was on the OP's ticket, to see if it matches any photo-id cards currently in use (I would hope there is a database of photo-id numbers somewhere)? And I wonder whether, if so, that might influence their actions. Best case for the OP would seem to be that the number turns out not to match any photocard that exists. Worst case is that it matches a photocard owned by someone who lives in the same locality, which would arouse greater suspicions of fraud.
     
    Last edited: 12 Jan 2017
  6. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    The machine would have asked the OP to enter their photocard number and they entered a different number - can't see how it was miss sold.
     
  7. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Indeed, it would make the ticket valid for the owner of the photo ID you entered. Perhaps you were buying it for someone else?

    I store a lot of useful information on Google Keep. Security isn't fantastic so I don't recommend PIN numbers or anything, but it's perfect for stuff like this. Especially as you can take a photo of the photo card and store that.
     
  8. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    Or you could look at the photo card.
     
  9. boxy321

    boxy321 Member

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    The letters I get each month emphasize that I must enter the photocard number on both tickets. This is further printed on each ticket (see attached).

    Valid only with Photocard No.

    If it said,

    Enter a number, any number

    I could understand it.
     

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  10. daikilo

    daikilo Established Member

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    Me too, but when photocards came out they were a means of identification with booking offices. The photo went with the name, not the number.

    One solution would be for the machine to block when the number clearly did not correspond with the name. An alternatuve, which I would favour, is that the photocard is read by a card reader so that no mistake can occur.
     
  11. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Yeah, but I like to have important documents (inc passport, drivers licence, even store cards) stored online for when I don't have them with me. Like being abroad on holiday over Christmas and wanting to renew my season online.
     
  12. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    I would like to see that too, but that'll be a long time in coming unless existing TVMs can be retrofitted with barcode readers.
     
  13. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    Don't you worry about identity theft?
     
  14. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I don't keep everything on there. There are other secure methods of storing data too. Plus my phone is encrypted, with fingerprint security, my Google account has two step verification etc.
     
  15. cporter

    cporter Member

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    where does it say the photocard number has to match that on a season ticket?

    it's not in the conditions of carriage (or whatever they're called these days) as I've just read through them...

    plenty of references to needing a photocard with your season ticket, but there's absolutely nothing about the number on it needing to match the season ticket

    my photocard number has never matched those on my season tickets as the photocard has two extra digits the printers in ticket offices can't seem to handle
     
  16. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    Did you see post #29

     
  17. cporter

    cporter Member

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    no I didn't

    my gold card does have that insert in the corner, however I have had plenty of weekly and monthly seasons that simply don't say that, such as the one I've attached (sorry for poor quality, it's faded quite a bit)
     

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  18. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Was that issued from a ticket office or a TVM?
     
  19. DaleCooper

    DaleCooper Established Member

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    It does have "Photocard No." top right.
     
  20. cporter

    cporter Member

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    always a ticket office, I've never bought a season from a TVM

    yeah, it does say photocard no., but it doesn't say "valid only with photocard no", and the terms and conditions don't say this either
     
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