What am I missing... Std v 1st Class

[Lee_Again]

Hi all,

Stevenage to Reading, £40.50 Off Peak return, is, in my view, good value. About 90 mins for what can be a 2+ hour drive.

However, I considered going 1st class. I thought the general rule of thumb was Std + 50% and at £60ish I might have been tempted. However, with only an Anytime Day Return available, £120 seems a little excessive and certainly not justifiable.

Even the Anytime Day Return is only £45.80. Am I missing something?

AP's, even if available, aren't for me on this journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

+50% is what it should ideally be, but far too often it is well in excess of that. It's worst in the South East where First Class is often only available at an Anytime fare.

 

[sonic2009]

Splitting the tickets on a quick look can bring the 1st Class fare down to around £97.00 if travelling Off-Peak

 

[Ken H]

stevenage to reading. what would you get for your ££££?

Comfy seat? maybe a free coffee between Paddington and Reading. or maybe not.

I cant see the point of 1st Class unless a 2.5hr or more train ride.

 

[Hadders]

No point in 1st class between Stevenage and London, just sit in the rear 1st class compartment of a class 700 which is declassified.

That just leaves the leg between Paddington and Reading which is a sub-30 minute leg on a class 800. Not really worth paying extra for 1st class.

 

[trainophile]

I walked through the TPE Liverpool to Newcastle 1st Class compartment on Friday, and again today on the Redcar to Manchester Airport, and both times not a soul sitting in there. Nice place for the staff to have a break though!

I've not even checked the price. The trouble with Standard being perfectly acceptable, which it is, is why would anyone cough up for not very much. You don't even have a trolley for a lot of the journey, and when you do it's just drinks and a biscuit or if you're lucky a pastry.

(Edited to correct train routes, my mistake.)

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

The First Class compartments really ought to be replaced on crowded services with Third Class (like standard class but with bench style seating) at half the price, more people would use the space then. Never worth paying First Class on any train in England, just like it's never worth buying any overpriced stuff from the trolleys.

 

[Merseysider]

The trouble with Standard being perfectly acceptable, which it is, is why would anyone cough up for not very much.

In short, for me, 1st is worth the upgrade if it’s approx 1.5x the price (as @Bletchleyite alludes to above) - not for the freebies, but partly for the extra space, and more importantly the increased chance (admittedly not 100%) of peace and quiet.

That said, for such short journeys as Stevenage/Reading to/from London I probably wouldn’t bother.

 

[6Gman]

The First Class compartments really ought to be replaced on crowded services with Third Class (like standard class but with bench style seating) at half the price, more people would use the space then. Never worth paying First Class on any train in England, just like it's never worth buying any overpriced stuff from the trolleys.

Well, it's a view.

But plenty of people seem willing to do so which suggests they feel it's "worth paying".

 

[Hadders]

The First Class compartments really ought to be replaced on crowded services with Third Class (like standard class but with bench style seating) at half the price, more people would use the space then. Never worth paying First Class on any train in England, just like it's never worth buying any overpriced stuff from the trolleys.

I assume you've never travelled standard class on a class 700.

Fewer seats so that more people can stand was the mantra trotted out at the time. You couldn't get much worse seats if you tried.

 

[Horizon22]

The First Class compartments really ought to be replaced on crowded services with Third Class (like standard class but with bench style seating) at half the price, more people would use the space then. Never worth paying First Class on any train in England, just like it's never worth buying any overpriced stuff from the trolleys.

Interesting view - that being said a first class seat is mostly in use beyond Reading or Stevenage for longer journeys, even though its the same train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I assume you've never travelled standard class on a class 700.

Fewer seats so that more people can stand was the mantra trotted out at the time. You couldn't get much worse seats if you tried.

To be fair I would go Standard over First, which attempts to pass off the atrocious Fainsa Sophia as a premium product. If I pay a premium I expect a premium seat. The 319s managed it!

 

[Starmill]

I think effectively it's a case of if you're unwilling to cough up £120 they'd prefer their first class remain emptier.

By the way, if you can go from Welwyn North instead, it's only £27.80 return to Reading, albeit with the less convenient London service from Welwyn.

 

[Hadders]

To be fair I would go Standard over First, which attempts to pass off the atrocious Fainsa Sophia as a premium product. If I pay a premium I expect a premium seat. The 319s managed it!

Really, we're tralking 700s, not 350s

 

[Alfonso]

It makes economic sense to sell 1st class seats for longer journeys, the biggest demand being to and from the capital, so for every seat sold London to Stevenage for example, that's a seat that can't be sold to a London to Edinburgh customer, so the high price disparity on the shorter distance tickets discourages all but the determined or flush from buying 1st class short distance journeys on long distance trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really, we're tralking 700s, not 350s

Yes. The Sophia base has a "ridge" in it which I find grossly uncomfortable (and this is the only reason I don't like the seat). I don't mind those ironing boards provided nobody is sitting next to me.

350s don't have uncomfortable 1st seats, they are the Compins used by Southern on most Electrostars. They just aren't a First Class seat and are inferior to the Grammers elsewhere in the unit.

 

[yorkie]

Hi all,

Stevenage to Reading, £40.50 Off Peak return, is, in my view, good value. About 90 mins for what can be a 2+ hour drive.

However, I considered going 1st class. I thought the general rule of thumb was Std + 50% and at £60ish I might have been tempted. However, with only an Anytime Day Return available, £120 seems a little excessive and certainly not justifiable.

Even the Anytime Day Return is only £45.80. Am I missing something?

AP's, even if available, aren't for me on this journey.

Look at a splitting site such as Trainsplit if value is a factor.

The higher fare is aimed at extracting money from people/businesses who are prepared to pay for it, and is not intended to be a good value product.

As others have said the relevant operators on this flow are happy for 1st class to be a fairly empty exclusive environment.

 

[Haywain]

It makes economic sense to sell 1st class seats for longer journeys, the biggest demand being to and from the capital, so for every seat sold London to Stevenage for example, that's a seat that can't be sold to a London to Edinburgh customer, so the high price disparity on the shorter distance tickets discourages all but the determined or flush from buying 1st class short distance journeys on long distance trains

That is an interesting argument but it fails because the fares between Stevenage and London are set by Thameslink, rather than the long distance operator.

 

[tspaul26]

Hi all,

Stevenage to Reading, £40.50 Off Peak return, is, in my view, good value. About 90 mins for what can be a 2+ hour drive.

However, I considered going 1st class. I thought the general rule of thumb was Std + 50% and at £60ish I might have been tempted. However, with only an Anytime Day Return available, £120 seems a little excessive and certainly not justifiable.

Even the Anytime Day Return is only £45.80. Am I missing something?

AP's, even if available, aren't for me on this journey.

Strictly speaking, the Off Peak Return is £59.50.

The Off Peak Day Return is £40.50.

And somewhat unusually, the Anytime Day Return costs £64.40 for the reverse flow.

 

[infobleep]

I assume you've never travelled standard class on a class 700.

Fewer seats so that more people can stand was the mantra trotted out at the time. You couldn't get much worse seats if you tried.

Not much need if you can get a seat in declassified first class. At some stations, the back section is closest to one's exit at their destination and in other cases, even the front section is declassified. That's timetable dependant of course, unlike the rear.

I intend to go to London Bridge later and I hope to use the rear section because why not.

 

[tspaul26]

+50% is what it should ideally be, but far too often it is well in excess of that. It's worst in the South East where First Class is often only available at an Anytime fare.

In short, for me, 1st is worth the upgrade if it’s approx 1.5x the price (as @Bletchleyite alludes to above) - not for the freebies, but partly for the extra space, and more importantly the increased chance (admittedly not 100%) of peace and quiet.

That said, for such short journeys as Stevenage/Reading to/from London I probably wouldn’t bother.

In this case the differential between the Anytime Day Single and the Anytime Day First Single is about 50% (£40 vice £64) so there is perhaps hope.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In this case the differential between the Anytime Day Single and the Anytime Day First Single is about 50% (£40 vice £64) so there is perhaps hope.

With Anytime fares in the South East they very often are. The problem comes with off peak - there is usually no equivalent, or if there is the discount is paltry.

 

[tspaul26]

With Anytime fares in the South East they very often are. The problem comes with off peak - there is usually no equivalent, or if there is the discount is paltry.

Indeed, or there is a period return in First, but no equivalent day return.

 

[Lee_Again]

stevenage to reading. what would you get for your ££££?

Comfy seat? maybe a free coffee between Paddington and Reading. or maybe not.

I cant see the point of 1st Class unless a 2.5hr or more train ride.

Not sure that answers the question but thank you for sharing your view. For the record, I, like many, often prefer the 'ambiance' of 1st class even if the accommodation and service aren't great.

No point in 1st class between Stevenage and London, just sit in the rear 1st class compartment of a class 700 which is declassified.

That just leaves the leg between Paddington and Reading which is a sub-30 minute leg on a class 800. Not really worth paying extra for 1st class.

Not sure that answers the question but thank you for sharing your view. Don't forget LNER. Not everything from Stevenage is a class 700!!

It makes economic sense to sell 1st class seats for longer journeys, the biggest demand being to and from the capital, so for every seat sold London to Stevenage for example, that's a seat that can't be sold to a London to Edinburgh customer, so the high price disparity on the shorter distance tickets discourages all but the determined or flush from buying 1st class short distance journeys on long distance trains

Thank you for at least attempting to answer the question.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The

Not much need if you can get a seat in declassified first class. At some stations, the back section is closest to one's exit at their destination and in other cases, even the front section is declassified. That's timetable dependant of course, unlike the rear.

Not sure that answers the question but thank you for sharing your view. For the record, I, like many, often prefer the 'ambiance' of 1st class even if the accommodation and service aren't great.

Not sure that answers the question but thank you for sharing your view. Don't forget LNER. Not everything from Stevenage is a class 700!!

Declassified First Class on the 700s into the core also has the benefit that instead of a schlep to the H&C Line at Kings Cross or St Pancras, you can use the few steps platform to platform interchange at Farringdon. Doing this you can change onto the westbound H&C line in literally a few seconds.

 

[infobleep]

Not sure that answers the question but thank you for sharing your view. For the record, I, like many, often prefer the 'ambiance' of 1st class even if the accommodation and service aren't great.


Not sure that answers the question but thank you for sharing your view. Don't forget LNER. Not everything from Stevenage is a class 700!!


Thank you for at least attempting to answer the question.

I must say outside of the peak I often find the back section of a class 700 quiet as most people see the first-class signs and assume it's first class. It has more first-class signs on it than some rolling stock where it is always first class.

The notice about it being declassified appears on the digital screen about every 3 minutes.

This wouldn't be the case during the peak as much as regular commuters will have learnt.

This doesn't help going to Reading of course but I thought worth mentioning for the benefit of others.

 

[Dave W]

I thought worth mentioning for the benefit of others.

Don't tell everyone, they'll all start doing it

The best seat in that declassifised first class section is the lone single seat next to the cab access door. Table and no one can sit next to you. Lovely for longer journeys - Finsbury Park to Brighton to see friends or for onward connections to the Isthmian Premier League towns (Bognor, Lewes, Worthing)... Plus Horsham of course. And might even sit in it on the way to Potters Bar...!