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What are your observations of face coverings wearing on public transport?

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northernchris

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Fair enough, and I know a lot of people who take their view. My concern is that it won’t have any meaningful impact on infection rates (or any possible future lockdowns, God forbid) but it might suppress passenger numbers.

As far as the WHO is concerned I know there is some concern that their change of mind is in response to political pressure (this was discussed in detail on a thread in this section a few days ago).

Agreed that it's treading a fine line with passenger numbers and it's a no win situation for all as opinions are so divided a consensus would be impossible!

It's important to bear in mind that facemasks are deeply personal and by design interfere with an absolutely essential human function. Some people find that they can accommodate that with only minor inconvenience, other people find it constantly unpleasant and impossible to get used to, and in others it provokes a genuine and lasting sense of terror.

In spite of not really seeing any decent evidence in support of them, and frankly finding the world in general more difficult to confidently navigate when everybody is masked, I'm not at all unhappy if other people feel empowered by wearing them. I wish I could do the same, if only because I absolutely hate not fitting in in public. I can't though. Right now I feel like I'm being forced to admit to a quite shameful and debilitating phobia, and far from being supported through it, I'm hearing constant suggestions that I'm somehow trying to look hard or indulge in toxic masulinity.

Wear your mask with pride, but please, it's not your job to police it. Always assume best intent, and bear in mind that it's a numbers game - if masks are useful then 80% mask-wearing is 80% useful. Let people do what they can to help, and don't demand that everybody does what you can.

Appreciate your comments, and rest assured I wouldn't police it. I did move away from someone quite recently on a TPE service who not only sat in a seat marked out of use despite plenty of 'green seats' being available, but began shouting in to her phone which made me feel slightly uncomfortable especially with her being so close in an enclosed space

As I said, those who are genuinely exempt should get the support required so they can travel with confidence. But there is a huge difference between those and the groups who turn the trains in to a mobile Spoons
 
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Mojo

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Why would you carry a mask with you if you needed the exemption because it caused you breathing problems or severe distress, as it would be a waste of money, as you'd never be able to wear one?
I have either a reasonable excuse, or am exempt (dependent on whether I’m at work or just travelling) yet still carry a face mask, for a number of reasons. I will attempt to wear one if it’s busy and I’m not suffering discomfort or difficulties. I can also understand people carrying a mask in case they are (incorrectly) denied access or challenged and wish to avoid a confrontation.
 

Scrotnig

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It's important to bear in mind that facemasks are deeply personal and by design interfere with an absolutely essential human function. Some people find that they can accommodate that with only minor inconvenience, other people find it constantly unpleasant and impossible to get used to, and in others it provokes a genuine and lasting sense of terror.

In spite of not really seeing any decent evidence in support of them, and frankly finding the world in general more difficult to confidently navigate when everybody is masked, I'm not at all unhappy if other people feel empowered by wearing them. I wish I could do the same, if only because I absolutely hate not fitting in in public. I can't though. Right now I feel like I'm being forced to admit to a quite shameful and debilitating phobia, and far from being supported through it, I'm hearing constant suggestions that I'm somehow trying to look hard or indulge in toxic masulinity.

Wear your mask with pride, but please, it's not your job to police it. Always assume best intent, and bear in mind that it's a numbers game - if masks are useful then 80% mask-wearing is 80% useful. Let people do what they can to help, and don't demand that everybody does what you can.
I feel exactly the same, and sadly it's meant I cannot ever travel on railways again, and as of next week I cannot ever go in shops again.
 

trebor79

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I feel exactly the same, and sadly it's meant I cannot ever travel on railways again, and as of next week I cannot ever go in shops again.
I think therefore you are exempt under the "severe distress" provision. Not that you are compelled to tell BTP or anyone else then nature of your exemption.
 

Scrotnig

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I think therefore you are exempt under the "severe distress" provision. Not that you are compelled to tell BTP or anyone else then nature of your exemption.
That's basically the problem. The fear of being challenged, officially or unofficially, makes it worse.

The easier option is simply not to put myself in that position in the first. I suspect there are lots like me. The government either don't realise, or don't care. I suspect the latter.

In terms of shops, for me, the high street's loss will be Amazon's gain. I don't want it to be like that, but I have no choice.
Railways I just can't use.
Heritage railways are the ones I feel bad about. A big hobby of mine, now completely out of bounds to me. Hurts me and them.
 

Bletchleyite

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Have you considered visiting a heritage railway with compartment stock? While expensive, those railways seem to be selling on a "per compartment" basis, and if you have one to yourself there would be no reason to wear a mask.

I don't shop in shops where it can be avoided anyway, it's not a nice experience compared with online even in normal times.
 

Skimpot flyer

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My experiences of mask-wearing, and the level of compliance I’ve witnessed, on London Overground trains and the occasional tube journey in London over the past months have been mixed.
Some days, I’ve witnessed the overwhelming majority of people in the same carriage wearing masks, though some will be wearing it badly (not covering the nose as well as the mouth). I’ve seen people who wear one around their chin, only to put the mask properly in place just prior to getting to their stop.
The one thing I have repeatedly observed that puzzles me, however, is that the people I’ve seen not wearing a mask at all tend to be (but not exclusively) younger people, particularly those from the ethnic groups that, according to numerous studies, have a disproportionate risk of getting severe symptoms or dying from this virus.
A colleague of Afro-Caribbean descent who travels in on the tube also confirms that he has witnessed the same phenomenon.
One journey in particular, last Thursday, springs to mind. My colleague and I were sat in a LO train and could see approximately 12 other people from where we were sitting (opposite one another). Five individuals were not wearing masks, and 4 of those were from the BAME groups.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Been on four trains today and face covering compliance was around 85-90% so not bad especially as i'd say numbers were well up on last week. However, there was no sign of BTP anywhere and ive been in two of the London termini where i would have thought they would be present by now to support staff.
 

northernchris

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The one thing I have repeatedly observed that puzzles me, however, is that the people I’ve seen not wearing a mask at all tend to be (but not exclusively) younger people, particularly those from the ethnic groups that, according to numerous studies, have a disproportionate risk of getting severe symptoms or dying from this virus.

I've also noticed the same around Leeds, and now wonder if there's a connection between this and places like Leicester, Bradford, Blackburn and Pendle being quite high for transmission levels. My partner is BAME and is at the opposite end i.e. wears a mask when in the street so would be interesting to know if there's cultural issues which play a part
 

Bletchleyite

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I've also noticed the same around Leeds, and now wonder if there's a connection between this and places like Leicester, Bradford, Blackburn and Pendle being quite high for transmission levels. My partner is BAME and is at the opposite end i.e. wears a mask when in the street so would be interesting to know if there's cultural issues which play a part

The connection appears to be at present large Muslim communities, though it may not be about compliance but rather about typical jobs and living conditions due to being poor.
 

Cowley

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We’re definitely quite long way from discussing observations of face coverings on public transport here... Could we try to keep this thread on that subject from now on please.
Thanks. :)
 

greyman42

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Been on four trains today and face covering compliance was around 85-90% so not bad especially as i'd say numbers were well up on last week. However, there was no sign of BTP anywhere and ive been in two of the London termini where i would have thought they would be present by now to support staff.
You do not have to wear a mask in stations.
 

MikeWM

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I did not know that

Many people won't, especially if there are train staff making similar announcements such as on the EMR train I was on a couple of weeks ago as we pulled into Norwich, that it is 'mandatory' to wear one until you have exited the station.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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You do not have to wear a mask in stations.
Umm you get duped by the notices saying 'you must wear a face covering on our services' as you arrive at London termini with a barrage of HV vested staff of people posing in them and handing them out except Liv St which isnt doing it anymore but worth knowing as i only want to wear when i absolutely have to.

So technically until i get on the tube train i don't need it but not sure thats sensible if its congested but common sense will prevail.
 

Dr Hoo

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Travelled on Manchester Metrolink for first time since the COVID-19 situation began. High level of mask wearing but again very noticeable that a 'particular demographic' comprised nearly all the non-wearers. To see someone without a mask happily sit on a Priority Seat adjacent to an individual who appeared to be very much in a 'vulnerable' demographic, then put their feet up and play with the music on their phone was very disappointing. (The 'vulnerable' passenger got up and struggled to another part of the tram.)

On the next journey there were three Travel Safe Officers with body-worn video inspecting everyone's mask or asking passengers to put one on but nobody who didn't have one with them was denied travel. I suppose that the video evidence bank might be built up to prove 'you've been warned before'. The check coincided with pre-recorded announcements about fines of up to £1,000 for breach of Metrolink bylaws, thus helping to ratchet up the pressure albeit that I don't thing that non-wearing was specifically mentioned as an 'offence'.

Posters at stops say 'You must wear a face covering' or equivalent.
 

takno

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Travelled on Manchester Metrolink for first time since the COVID-19 situation began. High level of mask wearing but again very noticeable that a 'particular demographic' comprised nearly all the non-wearers. To see someone without a mask happily sit on a Priority Seat adjacent to an individual who appeared to be very much in a 'vulnerable' demographic, then put their feet up and play with the music on their phone was very disappointing. (The 'vulnerable' passenger got up and struggled to another part of the tram.)

On the next journey there were three Travel Safe Officers with body-worn video inspecting everyone's mask or asking passengers to put one on but nobody who didn't have one with them was denied travel. I suppose that the video evidence bank might be built up to prove 'you've been warned before'. The check coincided with pre-recorded announcements about fines of up to £1,000 for breach of Metrolink bylaws, thus helping to ratchet up the pressure albeit that I don't thing that non-wearing was specifically mentioned as an 'offence'.

Posters at stops say 'You must wear a face covering' or equivalent.
Sounds thoroughly unpleasant. Staying home is definitely the way forward
 

AdamWW

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On the next journey there were three Travel Safe Officers with body-worn video inspecting everyone's mask or asking passengers to put one on but nobody who didn't have one with them was denied travel. I suppose that the video evidence bank might be built up to prove 'you've been warned before'.

I would be somewhat surprised if things are that organised.

Are the cameras even always on? On the trains round here the cameras are only on when specifically activated, with a red light to show that they are on. So I was told, anyway...
 

bramling

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I would be somewhat surprised if things are that organised.

Are the cameras even always on? On the trains round here the cameras are only on when specifically activated, with a red light to show that they are on. So I was told, anyway...

I suppose in theory it would be possible to use on-train CCTV in support of a prosecution, using it as evidence to show someone had not work a mask for part of a journey. This would of course only work were any kind of exemption already ruled out. In practice however the chances of this happening are pretty much akin to zero - the process for police getting hold of on-train CCTV is complex for a start.
 

trebor79

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I suppose in theory it would be possible to use on-train CCTV in support of a prosecution, using it as evidence to show someone had not work a mask for part of a journey. This would of course only work were any kind of exemption already ruled out. In practice however the chances of this happening are pretty much akin to zero - the process for police getting hold of on-train CCTV is complex for a start.
The way the law has been written it's impossible for the police or anyone else to rule out that you have an exemption.
The bodycams are in case there is some argy bargy and the officers are assaulted or accused of assault.
 

Peter Sarf

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Umm you get duped by the notices saying 'you must wear a face covering on our services' as you arrive at London termini with a barrage of HV vested staff of people posing in them and handing them out except Liv St which isnt doing it anymore but worth knowing as i only want to wear when i absolutely have to.

So technically until i get on the tube train i don't need it but not sure thats sensible if its congested but common sense will prevail.

For England. I think it would be simpler if the mask rule covered the same areas as other things. Smoking is not permitted on trains or any parts of stations. That would be more consistent and possibly more easily enforced. Scotland seem to have kept it simple.

Putting the rule making aside - from a health view point of view I think the need to wear a mask increases as people get nearer. So on a platform you are likely to be able to keep a distance of 2m plus in many cases it will be in the open so well ventilated. Once on a train there is less fresh air and a growing likely hood of being too close to others. So if you are comfortable with wearing a mask do so as much as you can but certainly in higher risk areas.

Overall it is likely that we are just reducing risk not eliminating it. There are no absolutes. Covid-19 is a risk worth reducing.
 

BJames

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Note that in Scotland it IS law that you must wear a mask both onboard and on the station.
Also note that TfL stations (at least, my local does) have small signs up stating that "access to the station is restricted to those wearing a covering over the nose and mouth" or words to that effect. All EMR services that I've been on through Leicester have had an announcement from the train manager that "as Leicester is still in local lockdown, please wear your face covering at least until you've exited the station".

Observation wise - it's definitely picked up over the last week but there are a lot of people wearing them just over the mouth and a moderate number who take them down during longer journeys - I can't help but fiddle with mine throughout the journey as I really do find it uncomfortable.
 

trebor79

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Observation wise - it's definitely picked up over the last week but there are a lot of people wearing them just over the mouth and a moderate number who take them down during longer journeys - I can't help but fiddle with mine throughout the journey as I really do find it uncomfortable.
I'm not surprised. I had to wear one for the first time today for a haircut. Couldn't wait to get the stupid thing off, and that was only 20 minutes.
I've bought a bandana for shipping and train journeys. It's better than the medical type, but I think if I was on a train more than an hour or so I'd have to take it off for a while.
 

Skimpot flyer

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So on a platform you are likely to be able to keep a distance of 2m plus in many cases it will be in the open so well ventilated.
A friend reports that for late-night departures from the suburban platforms at Kings Cross, his usual outbound train’s platform number is not displayed until all the arriving passengers have passed through the gates, which are all set for exit, presumably to further minimise mixing of the two groups of travellers, and maximise social distancing.

Whilst not a fan of masks, I still think it would be much simpler if the requirement was to wear masks while on station premises.
 

takno

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A friend reports that for late-night departures from the suburban platforms at Kings Cross, his usual outbound train’s platform number is not displayed until all the arriving passengers have passed through the gates, which are all set for exit, presumably to further minimise mixing of the two groups of travellers, and maximise social distancing.

Whilst not a fan of masks, I still think it would be much simpler if the requirement was to wear masks while on station premises.
I think not announcing the platform until it's clear of arriving passengers is a lot simpler than expecting people to potentially double the time they have to wear the masks. Generally seems like a better way of running the station anyway
 

BJames

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I think not announcing the platform until it's clear of arriving passengers is a lot simpler than expecting people to potentially double the time they have to wear the masks. Generally seems like a better way of running the station anyway
This happened at Liverpool Street at around 5pm too, I hoped all the major stations were adopting this policy. To be honest, except on services which have a turnaround of say, 5 minutes or less (of which there probably aren't too many in London terminals), I think this is a much better policy anyway... it can really slow down your exit from the platform when it's already full of people waiting to travel home or wherever, even though the train isn't leaving for 15 minutes.
I'm not surprised. I had to wear one for the first time today for a haircut. Couldn't wait to get the stupid thing off, and that was only 20 minutes.
I've bought a bandana for shipping and train journeys. It's better than the medical type, but I think if I was on a train more than an hour or so I'd have to take it off for a while.
Thank goodness my barber didn't ask me to wear one when I had my hair cut :)
You're right of course, the bandana is more comfortable, mine is one of the simple black cloth masks - not one of the surgical-type three-layer masks, although I must admit I did wear that one to hospital and it was certainly less comfortable than the cloth mask.

I'll add my observations on the tram in Nottingham too - on the whole, people are complying (possibly less than London? Most school-age teenagers are not wearing masks on the tram at all from what I've seen, although they are making use of the newly designated "out of use" seats as a nice footrest), but there's a few people that will just hop on the tram and go one or two stops down the high street - like from Radford Road to Hyson Green - and have no masks on. Not to speculate too much but I doubt they had tickets either - I haven't been ticket checked in a while and I wasn't sure if they were still going on, but I did see two inspectors waiting for a tram in the opposite direction so I assume they are.
 
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