What could have been....

[yorkie]

I was reading Modern Railways, June 2000, which had several pages on WCRM (West Coast Route Modernisation).

Here are some of the commitments we should have got by now:-

- 140mph services

- 3 trains per hour to Manchester (we have only 2)
- 4 trains per hour to Birmingham (we have only 2)

- 85% of trains to arrive within 5 mins of being on time.
- 2 more 140mph Open Access paths London-Crewe
- 42 more slow line paths London-Crewe

And here are some options that it was thought could have happened:-

- Flyover for the Northampton line to enable 140mph services to Northampton (The reality: the current 110mph service is to be downgraded to 100mph)

- Silverlink running 2 tph to Birmingham (The reality: None, not even to Rugby! Cut back to Northampton)

- Services from Brighton to be extended from Rugby to Birmingham (The reality: None, cut back to Watford Jn!)

- Northampton/Watford to Colchester/Ipswich services (The reality: Not even thought about it now!)

- Central Trains to increase service frequency (The reality: All trains along the WCML Trent Valley line and even some feeding into the WCML replaced by BUSES!)

- Services from Heathrow to run onto the WCML (The reality: Not even thought about it now!)


Journey times - example

London to Liverpool should now be 1 hour 50 minutes. The reality is 2 hours 30 minutes.

Discuss!

 

[Simming]

And it was all to be controled from a New signalling centre at Saltley, next to the present PSB. It was built, but its lies there still, empty.

 

[Angus]

Nearly £10bn and what do we get? Inferior quality plastic cramped trains and only 125mph (which the ECML, GWML, and (I think?) MML have had for years).

 

[Techniquest]

The MML isn't 125 IIRC, 110 definately in places. Jamie C. Steel is the master of MML knowledge, he'll confirm the correct answers.

But yes, the GWML and the ECML have had 125mph railways for decades.

They might as well have kept HSTs on the WCML, if only to Holyhead from Euston, at the moment, seeing as the 390s can't top them in maximum speed yet!

 

[yorkie]

The MML isn't 125 IIRC, 110 definately in places. Jamie C. Steel is the master of MML knowledge, he'll confirm the correct answers.

The MML does have up to 125mph line speeds between Derby and Sheffield.

Ironically the line was upgraded mainly for CrossCountry services, with MML (the TOC) also benefiting.

They might as well have kept HSTs on the WCML, if only to Holyhead from Euston, at the moment, seeing as the 390s can't top them in maximum speed yet!

Not quite true as the 125mph speeds are for tilting trains.

 

[bunnahabhain]

The MML isn't 125 IIRC, 110 definately in places. Jamie C. Steel is the master of MML knowledge, he'll confirm the correct answers.

The MML does have up to 125mph line speeds between Derby and Sheffield.

Ironically the line was upgraded mainly for CrossCountry services, with MML (the TOC) also benefiting.

They might as well have kept HSTs on the WCML, if only to Holyhead from Euston, at the moment, seeing as the 390s can't top them in maximum speed yet!

Not quite true as the 125mph speeds are for tilting trains.

No section of the Midland Main Line is cleared for any running over 110mph, Derby - Sheffield is not 125mph, it is 110mph max.

You are thinking of Derby - Birmingham, which is still plagued by TSR's meaning that no sooner are you up to 125mph you need to begin slowing down considerably before speeding back up again.

 

[Julian G]

those pendos seems to be very unreliable that Virgin should think again....
upgrade 87 and 90 to 125mph!!! and bring in the Mk4 coaches to the WCML!!!

 

[AlexS]

Yes, lets spend lots of money regearing the 87s and 90s so they pass the 125mph safety case. I can see that being popular. As for Mk4s, they aren't even in production any more.

 

[Techniquest]

They might as well have kept HSTs on the WCML, if only to Holyhead from Euston, at the moment, seeing as the 390s can't top them in maximum speed yet!

Not quite true as the 125mph speeds are for tilting trains.

Sort of my point was that, since 390s are therefore limited to 110mph still, surely it would have made sense to leave the HSTs on the Holyheads, since 110 for a HST isn't exactly hard to achieve, it would have saved wasting valuble time at Crewe hunting downs locos, failed coupling-up to the 390s, set spots...Still, that's retrospective thinking these days I guess...

Thank you, btw, Jamie for confirming that the MML isn't 125.

 

[yorkie]

I will check the line speeds between Sheffield and Derby next time I travel on that route, but I did read that there is a 125mph section and I thought I saw it, but I will check!

As for the WCML line speeds, it seems there is some confusion, I will try to clarify: What has been done is, rather than slewing tracks and increasing the cant to allow higher speeds they have instead installed EPS (Enhanced Permitted Speed) marker boards to indicate where tilting trains can go faster.

So there may be places where, for example, non-tilting trains can travel at say 90mph while tilting trains can do 110mph. In this case the HST would be limited to 90mph regardless of it's 125mph capability.

 

[Guinness]

I wish that it was upgraded to 140mph....

If NR said it hadn't then there would be MORE windows on the Pendolino and they would be a simular size to Voyagers!

Well it would of taken them many more years and blockades to get it done....

 

[Techniquest]

It seems we'll never get this new and improved WCML!

 

[yorkie]

We will, but it will only be 125mph. The July issue of Modern Railways (out now) has a lot of information on the WCRM project.

Bear in mind Railtrack are responsible for the mess, and Network Rail are now putting it right.

 

[Julian G]

We will, but it will only be 125mph. The July issue of Modern Railways (out now) has a lot of information on the WCRM project.

Bear in mind Railtrack are responsible for the mess, and Network Rail are now putting it right.

i hope Network Rail will tidy that mess up!!