What do think about the Christmas closedown?

[AlterEgo]

Nobody's yet acknowledged the vast amount of money I would like to be paid to work Christmas Day, and whether you can afford me.

 

[ole man]

Same as the NWR Bonus 350 a shift plus double time, would that be ok?

 

[EM2]

It all depends on whether the railway is there to meet public demand or not.

Being out of step in the past is no reason to continue being out of step.

Yet I would bet that attendance at these sporting fixtures etc. is lower than the mid-70s, mainly because most football stadia have less capacity, being all-seater. It's the growth of Sunday/Bank Holiday shopping that is the game-changer.

Is that really the case? The cost of running a car is quite a bit more expensive than it was a few years back so I would have thought that some people would have already given up their car. In the future it may well be that only the rich can afford a car and if this is the case then if no public transport is provided then only the rich will be able to travel that day.

http://www.kgbanswers.co.uk/how-many-cars-are-there-in-the-uk/11108003
Almost 33 miilion vehicles on the road in the UK, of which 24 million are cars. That's double what there was in 1975.

 

[merlodlliw]

So let's close the airports then and shut down most of the TV stations.

exactly, 98% of cinemas close, so why not shut down TV & Radio so all can have a day off,

Bob

 

[scarby]

There are absolutely loads of flights on December 26 to airports such as Liverpool. How are passengers supposed to get to their final destination? Walk?

 

[AlterEgo]

There are absolutely loads of flights on December 26 to airports such as Liverpool. How are passengers supposed to get to their final destination? Walk?

How much are you going to pay people to run the trains?

Would it be profitable?

People are just spouting indignance and piffle in this thread.

Address the issues, which are the profitability of the railway on Christmas/Boxing Day, the human resourcing problem (getting people to work and give up their special day for good money!), and the demand for services.

 

[rmt-driver]

There are absolutely loads of flights on December 26 to airports such as Liverpool. How are passengers supposed to get to their final destination? Walk?

When choosing to fly on the 26th or 25th even they do so on the understanding of the public transport availability

 

[tbtc]

Yet I would bet that attendance at these sporting fixtures etc. is lower than the mid-70s, mainly because most football stadia have less capacity, being all-seater. It's the growth of Sunday/Bank Holiday shopping that is the game-changer

...and Boxing Day is a very busy Bank Holiday for shopping... all the other ones have some train service...

 

[Zoe]

Almost 33 miilion vehicles on the road in the UK, of which 24 million are cars. That's double what there was in 1975.

That may well be the case but I'd be interested to know the recent trend.

 

[AlterEgo]

That may well be the case but I'd be interested to know the recent trend.

Zoe, do you drive?

You seem to be obsessed with cars!!

 

[Zoe]

You seem to be obsessed with cars!!

The point is that the car is not the only form of transport and in the future it may well be the case that less people will be able to use them so alternatives need to be available. On Christmas Day there is no alternative.

 

[AlterEgo]

The point is that the car is not the only form of transport there is and alternatives should be available. On Christmas Day there is no alternative.

So why not address the problem and say

1) How much public transport workers should be paid to prise themselves away from their turkey

2) How profitable would a service be, given that most people stay at home on Christmas Day?

 

[Zoe]

So why not address the problem and say

1) How much public transport workers should be paid to prise themselves away from their turkey

2) How profitable would a service be, given that most people stay at home on Christmas Day?

How about running it as a public service and not for profit? Now there's a novel idea.

 

[Greenback]

The two games that I mentioned are both normally dependant upon the railway to get a large number of fans to the ground.

In the example of Manchester United, Northern normally run on "shuttles" from Piccadilly, with 323s taking supporters to the stadium.

In the case of Bolton, the ground is nowhere near the centre of the town, but is right by Horwich Parkway, so again a decent number of supporters arrive by train.

However, on Boxing Day that won't be an option. I'm obviously not suggesting that all 100,000 people attending the two games would have gone by rail normally, but Boxing Day is a "normal" day as far as sport is concerned.

As for some of the other comments on here along the lines of "why are people so desperate to go shopping on Boxing Day", the fact is that some people are. Rather than dismissing them, the railway should be trying to meet this obvious demand.

My comments were more about the smaller fixtures such as the Ospreys v Scarlets (or vice versa) that was mentioned previously.

I have no objection at all to a service being provided wher eit can be commercially justified. Maybe Manchester, Bolton and Meadowhall would be commercially justified, I expect it woudl be dependent on the elvel of service provided. I am not so certain myself, givne the range of origins that the supporters would come from, but I could well be wrong.

As for the shopping, the out of twon nature of much of it would need to be considered, as I mentioned previously. The retail parks around Swansea and Llanelli would probably attract people on Boxing Day, but the town and city centre, where the stations are, will be dead, as very few of the shops are opening there.

I imagine it will be similar in other small towns and cities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How much are you going to pay people to run the trains?

Would it be profitable?

People are just spouting indignance and piffle in this thread.

Address the issues, which are the profitability of the railway on Christmas/Boxing Day, the human resourcing problem (getting people to work and give up their special day for good money!), and the demand for services.

Precisely. The major issue is profitability.

 

[AlterEgo]

How about running it as a public service and not for profit? Now there's a novel idea.

Brilliant. Then I can get paid loads for working that day, and it won't matter that the service makes a massive loss.

(I don't disagree entirely with you; there's a very valid argument that public transport should be run as a public service. I'm just pointing out that in the era of mass privatisation, that's wholly unrealistic.)

 

[Greenback]

Brilliant. Then I can get paid loads for working that day, and it won't matter that the service makes a massive loss.

(I don't disagree entirely with you; there's a very valid argument that public transport should be run as a public service. I'm just pointing out that in the era of mass privatisation, that's wholly unrealistic.)

Agreed. I support the principle of public transport being run as a public service, but it is extremely unrealistic to expect it to happen, particularly at Christmas.

I can't get to the airport by train for a flight at 0600 because someone, somewhere, has deemed there to be insufficient demand (profit) for such a service to run from where I live. I accept that. It's the same for Boxing Day. Note that that doesn't stop people campaigning for a service though!

 

[Tin Rocket]

i'm working at watford over crimbo,xmas eve,day and boxing day all night turns and its going someway towards paying for my holiday in feb

 

[scarby]

i'm working at watford over crimbo,xmas eve,day and boxing day all night turns and its going someway towards paying for my holiday in feb

This was the kind of thing I used to do - work the 24th, 25th, 26th, 31st and 1st, with extra pay and lieu days (for 25th, 26th and 1st), on the agreement that I then had a week off from around January 2-3: cheap and quiet trains and planes - bliss!

 

[krisk]

We get time off that others don't, jealousy springs to mind

 

[Markdvdman]

I'm glad to see that this thread is still going strong!

I'd like to just make a few points in response to some other posts since I last looked at the thread.

Markdvdman mentions Scarlets v Ospreys, a traditional and popular rugby fixture in these parts. Others have also emntioned sporting fixtures as being a reason for Boxing Day services. However, I think we have to remember that with a lot of venues now being 'out of town'. how much use is a rails ervice going to really be for such events? Add to this the fact that many supporters don't live close to a station either, how likely is it that people will actually the train even if services run?

For example, many Ospreys fans will find it easier to drive, or get a lift with their friends, rather than find a way to get to a station, take a train and then get a taxi (or face a long walk) in Llanelli to Parc y Scarlets.An Ospreys supporter living in morriston would find it highly inconvient to go into Swansea for a train when they can drive directly to the ground in less than half an hour.How many of the 18000 fans that attend these matches would actually use the train?

Similarly, whereas Boxing Day may well be the busiest shopping day of the year, a lot of the retail activity willt ake place in out of town business parks that are very porrly served by railways. Of course, there are notable exceptions, and tbtc has made a good argument for places like Meadowhall to receive a service.

I am still not convinced that there is sufficient demand to justify anything other than a very limited service on Boxing Day given the costs of running the trains.

I know what you mean but there are mitigating factors. I have no trouble getting off at Llanelli and walking to Parc Y Scarlets - I have done it a few times - mobility and weather depends on this of course

As for the Ospreys, there has been proposals for a Morriston Parkway station. If this came to fruition, how far would it be from the Liberty Stadium?

I do agree that railways are not generally suited to sporting events due to proximity, but also a Trostre station has been earmarked as sensible to. All good but this was before the current economic state of course!

 

[Greenback]

I know what you mean but there are mitigating factors. I have no trouble getting off at Llanelli and walking to Parc Y Scarlets - I have done it a few times - mobility and weather depends on this of course

As for the Ospreys, there has been proposals for a Morriston Parkway station. If this came to fruition, how far would it be from the Liberty Stadium?

I do agree that railways are not generally suited to sporting events due to proximity, but also a Trostre station has been earmarked as sensible to. All good but this was before the current economic state of course!

People can walk to Parc y Scarlets, it takes me half an hour to walk to Morrison's, although the roads aren't ideal for pedestrians! But the point is if you have access to a car it's far, far easier to drive from most places rather than get to a station, take the train to Llanelli and then walk!

This is why I think that the numbers of passengers who would actually travel on Boxing Day is insufficient to cover the costs of runnignthe service on all but a handful of routes. For a lot of what people want to do on Boxing Day, the train is simply not a viable option anyway.

It's a bit of topic to talk about, but as I understand it a Morriston parkway would serve the Swansea District Line and would be built at Ynysforgan, which as you probably know is several miles north of the Liberty.

Also off topic, but my major concern about a station to serve Trostre is that it would mean the closure of the current Llanelli station, which would be no good for me as I only live five minutes away!

 

[bnm]

Part of the reason I'm not joining the family festivities this year is because I cannot escape back home on 26th December (I'll concede the 25th, but I would like a train service on the 26th.) One and a half days forced jollity is more than enough for me thanks. Bah humbug.

Oh and FFS what is all this Winterval b******s early in the thread? I may not enjoy this time of year but even I don't buy into all the PC crap about the name.

It's Christmas. (And no. I didn't shout that Noddy Holder stylee)

 

[90019]

Oh and FFS what is all this Winterval b******s early in the thread? I may not enjoy this time of year but even I don't buy into all the PC crap about the name.

Winterval is to do with the stuff either side of Christmas.
It has nothing to do with renaming Christmas itself, that was just what the tabloids said so they could outrage their readers about it being "PC gone mad!". Clearly, it worked.

As a general rule of thumb, if there's a story in the tabloids which says "You couldn't make it up!!" either in the story or the comments, it's usually made up.

 

[Eagle]

Winterval is to do with the stuff either side of Christmas.

I know that Leamington refers to its lights as "winterval" lights, but that's because they're dual-purpose Diwali and Christmas lights.

 

[Dstock7080]

London Underground and London buses of course run a very comprehensive service on Boxing day and they are well used.

If LU actually run! Heavily affected by ASLEF strike action in 2010 and not looking good for this year.

We are paid no extra for operating on Boxing Day and a days allocated Leave is deducted for Xmas Day.