Robertj21a
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What do you (dis-)like most about train travel within the UK?
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Hellfire
Member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2012
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- 552
I think that in general railways do a pretty good job considering the old infrastructure and the increasing passenger numbers. And I can't think of one member of rail staff with whom I have come into contact who hasn't been pleasant and helpful.
My biggest bugbear is the lack of rolling stock. The two examples that really get me are the ridiculous Cross Country Voyagers, five cars and usually rammed. The other is Northern. Old trains, often not enough carriages for the demand.Running a two car service into Manchester from Clitheroe at peak times is not going to encourage people to use it.
Three plus two seating should be outlawed.
My biggest bugbear is the lack of rolling stock. The two examples that really get me are the ridiculous Cross Country Voyagers, five cars and usually rammed. The other is Northern. Old trains, often not enough carriages for the demand.Running a two car service into Manchester from Clitheroe at peak times is not going to encourage people to use it.
Three plus two seating should be outlawed.
I have no particular love for trains, so i'm not particularly biased. I commute from Brighton to London bridge every day. I use the train because it is the best way to make this journey.
My season ticket represents good value per mile. I'm not sure why people complain about cost.
The trains are modern, smooth and comfortable. I can bring a pillow if I find the seats too hard!
My main annoyance is the poor time keeping and slow journey times in the peak. I think this basically comes down to a lack of capacity.
Staff are poor at dealing with disruption. E.g. trains are cancelled part way through journeys to help the service recover, but then sit there for twenty minutes because there are no staff. When cancellations occur stopping patterns are not altered in an effective way.
In times of disruption it can be so busy that boarding is difficult. Staff don't seem to be bothered about getting people to make room.
I would rather they removed a few rows of seats around the door area to create more standing room, than have run the risk of having my d*** pressed against poor some stranger!
Likes (which tend to outweigh the gripes):
Dislikes:
The freedom - you can get to so many places and I seem to get about much more than most people I know who drive.
- Convenience - ability to just hop on and off.
- The scenery - an excellent way to see the country - very calming.
- Impressive history and architecture etc.
Dislikes:
- Overcrowding
- Toilets not working
- stupidly early last trains (a particular affliction to Yorkshire)
- Overpriced walk-on and middle-distance fares
- Lack of railcard for a large proportion of working age people
- Dry trains
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Likes:
Combined with a bicycle, there are a lot of places I can get too using a train, enough that for me, selling my car was practical.
Long distance journeys are reasonably pleasant, don't have to concentrate for hours, can read a book, get a snack and drink on the move.
Can go out to a social event and have a drink.
Linear country walks are feasible to do myself, get a train to one station, walk through a scenic area to another station, and catch a train back. Sections of the Pennine Way can be done like this.
If I can get advance tickets, visiting family is much cheaper than if I were to drive.
Being able to claim back some or all of the fare for major delays in the form of a voucher, which can be used towards a future journey.
Dislikes:
People being ridiculously loud, e.g. talking down a mobile as if they are trying to talk to a person standing a hundred meters away. Screechy sprogs (have to put up with that quite often).
Slow services combined with niggle delays. It feels weird that it is as quick, or quicker to cycle the 15 miles from my house to Haywards Heath than to cycle two and a bit miles to Horsham station and catch a train. This is partly because the rail route is a long way round via Three Bridges whereas when cycling I can go straight there using minor roads.
Engineering works on the one Sunday in two months I want to use a train and on the one line I wish to travel on.
I don't know if this is still the case, but it didn't used to be possible to book an advance ticket online (for a long distance journey) and know whether there was a cycle space available to book. This makes the logistics of planning a cycling holiday more complicated.
Combined with a bicycle, there are a lot of places I can get too using a train, enough that for me, selling my car was practical.
Long distance journeys are reasonably pleasant, don't have to concentrate for hours, can read a book, get a snack and drink on the move.
Can go out to a social event and have a drink.
Linear country walks are feasible to do myself, get a train to one station, walk through a scenic area to another station, and catch a train back. Sections of the Pennine Way can be done like this.
If I can get advance tickets, visiting family is much cheaper than if I were to drive.
Being able to claim back some or all of the fare for major delays in the form of a voucher, which can be used towards a future journey.
Dislikes:
People being ridiculously loud, e.g. talking down a mobile as if they are trying to talk to a person standing a hundred meters away. Screechy sprogs (have to put up with that quite often).
Slow services combined with niggle delays. It feels weird that it is as quick, or quicker to cycle the 15 miles from my house to Haywards Heath than to cycle two and a bit miles to Horsham station and catch a train. This is partly because the rail route is a long way round via Three Bridges whereas when cycling I can go straight there using minor roads.
Engineering works on the one Sunday in two months I want to use a train and on the one line I wish to travel on.
I don't know if this is still the case, but it didn't used to be possible to book an advance ticket online (for a long distance journey) and know whether there was a cycle space available to book. This makes the logistics of planning a cycling holiday more complicated.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I don't know about that, but I do think there should be a minimum legal seat width and pitch based on actual adult[1] humans for all public transport, as there is for UK-based airlines. That would get rid of most 3+2, though that provided in 2.81m+ wide vehicles like the Thames Turbos could probably stay as it's *just about* wide enough for an average male. So if you want 3+2, you need to build a wide, thin-walled vehicle - perhaps looking at short articulated vehicles, for example. Though I personally think it's better to provide 2+2 with proper standing space.
[1] 3+2 seated schoolkid coaches have their role, but in my view it should be an offence to carry adults for hire or reward in such seats. I bet teachers forced to use them would appreciate a couple of rows of 2+2 fitted to the front of such vehicles.
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On the whole I think the railway provision in this country is really good apart from the ticketing system. It is so insanely complicated a lot of the staff don't seem to understand it and it is also very expensive unless you do all the research months in advance off your own back. It makes me feel like I am paying a private company for a favour rather than a service. The amount of government subsidy given to profit making companies also rubs me up the wrong way. Why is Split Ticketing even a thing by the way? Thank god for it mind. Ha ha.
A few years back I went to Birmingham for a Liverpool v Aston Villa game. If I just went to the ticket office and asked for the cheapest ticket to get from Lime Street to Witton station and back a couple of weeks before I was travelling I doubt I would have been sold the bizarre combination of single First and Standard class tickets I ended up with. They were in fact far cheaper than just an advance return despite being in first for some parts.
A few years back I went to Birmingham for a Liverpool v Aston Villa game. If I just went to the ticket office and asked for the cheapest ticket to get from Lime Street to Witton station and back a couple of weeks before I was travelling I doubt I would have been sold the bizarre combination of single First and Standard class tickets I ended up with. They were in fact far cheaper than just an advance return despite being in first for some parts.
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alxndr
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Apr 2015
- Messages
- 1,472
Likes:
- Get most places pretty easily
- Reasonably cheap in comparison to owning a car (when I travel alone)
Dislikes:
- Complex ticketing/purchasing/refund system
- Lack of seats
- All too often inaudible on train announcements
- Lack of railcard once I become too old for the 16-25
- Get most places pretty easily
- Reasonably cheap in comparison to owning a car (when I travel alone)
Dislikes:
- Complex ticketing/purchasing/refund system
- Lack of seats
- All too often inaudible on train announcements
- Lack of railcard once I become too old for the 16-25
I find getting cheap deals ok as long as I book in advance and split my ticket. I have been able to save £60+ on one journey by splitting a London - York at a few intermediate stations on the way. It is very complicated (the system that is) and the average passenger would not possibly think of doing this. Leeds-York also seems massively expensive compared to a lot of places.
Now I have moved from Yorkshire to London, it is clear to see a North/South divide in rolling stock. Here, most suburban services are run by units not more than 15/20 years old. Go back to God's own country, and there are 30 year old pacers and sprinters everywhere you look.
Personal Hates:
3+2 seating. It is awful, I had to endure 2 hours of it the other day on a 350/2 from Euston to Birmingham International.
Voyagers. The smell, the vibrations, the poorly aligned seats. Even worse on X Country with the removal of the shop.
Now I have moved from Yorkshire to London, it is clear to see a North/South divide in rolling stock. Here, most suburban services are run by units not more than 15/20 years old. Go back to God's own country, and there are 30 year old pacers and sprinters everywhere you look.
Personal Hates:
3+2 seating. It is awful, I had to endure 2 hours of it the other day on a 350/2 from Euston to Birmingham International.
Voyagers. The smell, the vibrations, the poorly aligned seats. Even worse on X Country with the removal of the shop.
bramling
Veteran Member
Too busy, an issue on trains and, increasingly, stations too nowadays.
By far the most unpleasant aspect of rail travel is the behaviours exhibited by a minority of passengers.
In terms of round here (West Yorkshire) a lack of later trains. I understand the need to carry out works and the like but take Leeds to Castleford as an example 22:37 being the latest service...would it really harm to have another couple of trains say at 23:05 and 23:37 to Knottingley or Kirkgate for example?
Personally I feel there should be a general service running until around 1am - that would cover people getting home from the pub and from most shows etc. This is actually one area in which bus companies excel over rail there are more and more popular routes running services throughout the night, not just to airports!
I mean you can catch the 23:15 bus but when you've just got off a train from say Manchester it is a bit of a pain having to make it across to pretty much the other side of Leeds city centre for the bus station! (also it doesn't affect me with a Metrocard but I can hardly use the return portion of my rail ticket on the bus should I miss the last train, unless I've got PlusBus on it which is rare so another £3 - £4 outlay!)
Personally I feel there should be a general service running until around 1am - that would cover people getting home from the pub and from most shows etc. This is actually one area in which bus companies excel over rail there are more and more popular routes running services throughout the night, not just to airports!
I mean you can catch the 23:15 bus but when you've just got off a train from say Manchester it is a bit of a pain having to make it across to pretty much the other side of Leeds city centre for the bus station! (also it doesn't affect me with a Metrocard but I can hardly use the return portion of my rail ticket on the bus should I miss the last train, unless I've got PlusBus on it which is rare so another £3 - £4 outlay!)
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DelayRepay
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 May 2011
- Messages
- 2,929
What I like:
- My local line (Thameslink) has an very frequent service and trains run all night, so I don't need to worry about being delayed at work or going for beers in the evening.
- When I make Inter City journeys for work or leisure, the train is usually my choice as I much prefer sitting back and relaxing to driving long distances on the motorways.
- I think there are some excellent value long distance fares available if you know where to look which can make trips away for a weekend to visit friends or explore another city affordable.
Don't like:
- Disruption: Inevitable but annoying, especially when it occurs on the homeward journey.
- Lack of information during disruption (multiple threads and comments about this).
- The price of parking at stations.
- Rail Replacement bus services(!)
- Dirty trains filled with rubbish that haven't seen a hoover since the 1990s!
- People eating smelly food on the train.
- Other passengers in general; the railways would be far more pleasure to use if they were exclusively for me
Hope this helps!
- My local line (Thameslink) has an very frequent service and trains run all night, so I don't need to worry about being delayed at work or going for beers in the evening.
- When I make Inter City journeys for work or leisure, the train is usually my choice as I much prefer sitting back and relaxing to driving long distances on the motorways.
- I think there are some excellent value long distance fares available if you know where to look which can make trips away for a weekend to visit friends or explore another city affordable.
Don't like:
- Disruption: Inevitable but annoying, especially when it occurs on the homeward journey.
- Lack of information during disruption (multiple threads and comments about this).
- The price of parking at stations.
- Rail Replacement bus services(!)
- Dirty trains filled with rubbish that haven't seen a hoover since the 1990s!
- People eating smelly food on the train.
- Other passengers in general; the railways would be far more pleasure to use if they were exclusively for me
Hope this helps!
TheNewNo2
Member
The existence of seat reservations for non-MIPs, and the seats on VTEC/379s.
Blamethrower
Member
Dislikes:
Likes:
- 3 + 2
- board like seats
- overcrowding
- prices
- knock on effects of Thameslink failures
- relatively low speed of trains
- London-centric network
- London-centric electrification (chiltern is the only non-electrified line)
- Pacers
- condition of most DMU's beginning with 15x
- Time it takes for 390 and 350 trains to open their doors
- Pendo + voyager stink
- diesel fumes in large transheds
- lack of standardisation of trains and interiors
- lottery of where to stand for a morning commuter train so that you get a seat
- stupid yellow fronts
- lack of aesthetic appeal applied to almost all train designs and liveries (IEP + 700 + aventras hopefully have started to address that)
Likes:
- Pendolino / Voyager tilting at full chat (Rugby, Linslade)
- Class 395 acceleration
- Pendolino windows!!!
- Meridian interiors (best use of seats vs space)
- the whistling sound a 377/387 makes when accelerating
- HS1
- Eurostar
- Proposed HS2
- Machynlleth - Aberdovey
I think this is possible still if you book online through the Virgin Trains East Coast website for travel on any train, not just VTEC trains
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The two piece Standard seat cushions solve the problem on VTEC, but the First Class seats still have the old design flaw of the fact that the back of the cushion curves up, not down. They are only comfortable because you can slouch because of how big they are.
Dislikes:
Unco-ordinated service and fares structure since privatisation. Even if the trains were run by private firms rather than state ownership, what would have prevented a system like TfL where the elected authority sets the standards and firms tender to operate them? BR was not perfect but considering the constraints they were under, they did a good job (and invested heavily in electrification projects).
Pacers (OK, a legacy of BR!)
Short and overcrowded trains, e.g. Transpennine
Diesel trains running long distances 'under the wires' (e.g. again Transpennine)
Exorbitantly expensive standard fares
Comparative slowness of long-distance trains not going to London
Carriage design: lack of luggage space on intercity trains; 'airline' (aka bus) seating; blank walls instead of windows; cramped and narrow seats
Likes
Merseyrail
Improved frequency on most services
Improved punctuality on most services (or so it seems: what do the figures say?)
Virgin West Coast for speed if not much else.
Cheap advance tickets
Positive attitude towards re-opening closed lines
Unco-ordinated service and fares structure since privatisation. Even if the trains were run by private firms rather than state ownership, what would have prevented a system like TfL where the elected authority sets the standards and firms tender to operate them? BR was not perfect but considering the constraints they were under, they did a good job (and invested heavily in electrification projects).
Pacers (OK, a legacy of BR!)
Short and overcrowded trains, e.g. Transpennine
Diesel trains running long distances 'under the wires' (e.g. again Transpennine)
Exorbitantly expensive standard fares
Comparative slowness of long-distance trains not going to London
Carriage design: lack of luggage space on intercity trains; 'airline' (aka bus) seating; blank walls instead of windows; cramped and narrow seats
Likes
Merseyrail
Improved frequency on most services
Improved punctuality on most services (or so it seems: what do the figures say?)
Virgin West Coast for speed if not much else.
Cheap advance tickets
Positive attitude towards re-opening closed lines
trainophile
Established Member
Likes - mostly everything, except...
Dislikes -
Having to pay to use the toilets at some stations
Not being informed of the platform you need until a few minutes before departure, resulting in a stampede
Being informed of the platform in good time, only to find the train doors locked until a couple of minutes before departure
Standard Class seats on VTWC, backache after half an hour!
Birmingham New Street to Hereford London Midland sardine tins, whatever time of day I travel
Advance ticket connections that make you wait half an hour when you could easily get the train that leaves five minutes after you arrive at the station (Crewe is bad for this)
And finally, the remaining bus-seat Pacers, no leg room and the people behind literally breathing down your neck.
Dislikes -
Having to pay to use the toilets at some stations
Not being informed of the platform you need until a few minutes before departure, resulting in a stampede
Being informed of the platform in good time, only to find the train doors locked until a couple of minutes before departure
Standard Class seats on VTWC, backache after half an hour!
Birmingham New Street to Hereford London Midland sardine tins, whatever time of day I travel
Advance ticket connections that make you wait half an hour when you could easily get the train that leaves five minutes after you arrive at the station (Crewe is bad for this)
And finally, the remaining bus-seat Pacers, no leg room and the people behind literally breathing down your neck.
Likes
Cheap advance fares
Stations that exude atmosphere - Marylebone, Exeter St Davids
Reopening of lines and stations
Some of the most beautiful scenery that can be viewed in comfort
HST's
Dislikes
Overrunning engineering work
Lame excuses for delays
Seats on most Sprinter trains
Voyagers
Stations with buffets and waiting rooms that close ridiculously early
Cheap advance fares
Stations that exude atmosphere - Marylebone, Exeter St Davids
Reopening of lines and stations
Some of the most beautiful scenery that can be viewed in comfort
HST's
Dislikes
Overrunning engineering work
Lame excuses for delays
Seats on most Sprinter trains
Voyagers
Stations with buffets and waiting rooms that close ridiculously early
UK example: Annual ticket Brighton to London: GBP 4096 (80km)
Belgium example: Annual ticket Liege to Brussels: EUR 2229 = GBP 1722 (95km)
Netherlands example: Annual ticket Nijmegen to the Hague: EUR 3984 = GBP 3078 (137km)
Does anyone still think UK fares are good value?
(Sources: nationalrail.co.uk, sncb.be, ns.nl - routes chosen at random)
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al.currie93
Member
- Joined
- 27 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 381
What I like? It can be a very nice way to travel and quite relaxing, and the system generally does work well.
What I dislike? The massive fragmentation in the system and hence the large amount of bureaucracy and expense required to make it work like that.
What I dislike? The massive fragmentation in the system and hence the large amount of bureaucracy and expense required to make it work like that.
Minilad
Established Member
Generalisation much?
No, personal experience of many years commuting.
I can't think of any other consumer service where if you paid £5k that the response to any issues would be a shrug of the shoulders and an attempt to place the blame elsewhere.
Minilad
Established Member
So you are saying everyone does that?
And clearly you have never had a problem with a second hand car dealer!
Dislike : attitude from the minority of staff who know far less than they ought about the journey they're undertaking or the route or stations.
The guilty until proven innocent attitude taken by staff after colleagues have given bad advice.
Likes: not having to drive.
London to Edinburgh in 4hrs20
The lady at the cafe in Retford who stayed open until gone 9pm instead of 7pm when a southbound train was delayed by over 3 hours
Being able to give people advice that helps them greatly.
The guilty until proven innocent attitude taken by staff after colleagues have given bad advice.
Likes: not having to drive.
London to Edinburgh in 4hrs20
The lady at the cafe in Retford who stayed open until gone 9pm instead of 7pm when a southbound train was delayed by over 3 hours
Being able to give people advice that helps them greatly.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Yes, the "Euston scrum" is a strong dislike of mine, too.
Pretty much everyone, from the top to the bottom.
And frankly if you are comparing the railways to a second hand car dealer, you have accepted there is a problem.
R Trevithick
Member
- Joined
- 16 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 75
I am assuming you have proof that I have that attitude. If so please supply it
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