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What do you think about ‘pings’ because of the Track and Trace App?

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dk1

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A combination of being required to give my details for test & trace and having to use an app to order drinks. I don't have a smartphone but would have been willing to accept table service and paying using contactless card.
Ok mate but you only have to give a name & phone no & no requirement to use the T&T app. Table service accepting cash has been available throughout for those not using the Spoon app too. I cant say ive ever had an issue with Pret apart from it being so busy during lockdown & the initial opening during April.
 

WelshBluebird

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But ..... how can we be sure that people whose apps have them Covid-positive really have Covid? And if they do, why are they not isolating?

You begin to see why there is a compelling case for disregarding if not deleting the app.
We can be sure because the app only shows someone as covid positive of they have tested positive for covid.

As for why someone isn't already isolating, the point of the app is because people may well be positive before they get tested. I.e. I could go to the pub tonight but test positive tomorrow - the point of the app (and track and trace in general) is that I would probably have been positive the day before testing positive so could have been spreading it around before I knew I had it.

Now, as I said earlier, by all means people can argue that because of vaccinations it isn't important to worry about anymore, but the general concept isn't that hard to understand!
If its working as it should, then I have to ask why are the algorithms are to be amended?
I thought they had dropped changing it now? Either way the reasoning for amending it is pretty solid IMO - with the level or vaccinations we have it doesn't have to be as sensitive. Of course decreasing the sensitivity of it is also a political move (and part of the current media and government goal of shifting the blame to the app rather than it being on the increasing number of cases).
If the official guidance on social distancing is 2m. Why then is the app racking up points if your phone is within 4m of the phone of a confirmed case.
Because you have to remember that 2m is guidance based on risk. Being 2m or further away doesn't mean the risk decreases to 0. It very much depends on a lot of other factors. One of which is how long you are in contact with that person too which is why the app takes that into account. Of course ideally it would also take into account your location and the conditions of that location inside v outside, ventilated v not) but it isnt really feasible for the app to know that!
 

WestRiding

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A combination of being required to give my details for test & trace and having to use an app to order drinks. I don't have a smartphone but would have been willing to accept table service and paying using contactless card.
All spoons I have been to have had pen and paper on the entrance with a box to leave your details. And you can just use a member of staff to order too. They just prefer to use the app, but its not a requirement if just ask.
 

island

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I have almost always used the app to check into places as a notification from it to isolate isn’t legally binding. Whilst I would respect in spirit a notification to isolate, I would still envisage going for exercise daily at an otherwise deserted park near me etc.

From tomorrow I do not envisage checking in, using app or otherwise, anywhere.
 

alxndr

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I got "pinged" yesterday so self-isolating until the end of next Thursday. Feel fine, a lateral flow test has been negative and I find it highly improbable that I've caught anything, but as I was due to travel by train across the country to a training course I felt it would be irresponsible to do so just in case, plus if it does amount to something I'd rather be ill at home than in a hotel hours away from any support. That's always a possibility, app or no app, but I'd be furious with myself if I ignored it and ended up in that situation.

It's annoying that I've lost the course (no idea when I'll get another opportunity), but honestly I suffer so badly with the heat its unlikely that I'd have managed to go outside anyway so gives me an excuse to hide away without feeling guilty about not "making the most of it".

Based on what I did that day I'm fairly sure it was either another passenger on a train from Clapham Junction to Ewell East, or the guard of the train from Riddlesdown back to Clapham Junction as they were the only other person in the carriage. Those were the only times I was alone, and no one else I was with the reminder of the day has been "pinged".
 

_toommm_

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I have the app to check in, but I’ve had tracing off for a while. I’ve travelled nearly 15,000 miles by train this year (key worker), and no doubt if I had it on I’d have had to isolate so many times (not that it’s enforceable anyway).

I only check in because I feel I’d be a hypocrite if I kicked off about it, because I work on customer service.
 

kristiang85

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Went to my wedding venue today to sort some stuff; it's a normal venue, and every single person who came in when we were sat there signed in manually (I presume giving fake details) rather than using the app, and the barcode was clearly displayed.
 

CeeJ

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But ..... how can we be sure that people whose apps have them Covid-positive really have Covid? And if they do, why are they not isolating?

You begin to see why there is a compelling case for disregarding if not deleting the app.
Another comment has picked up the latter point, but on the first: In order to tell the app you're positive, you have to enter a code you receive from the NHS only if you test positive from a COVID test. Only the code can trigger exposure notifications (the 'pings').

I got pinged by the app and was able to undo the ping by removing and re-installing the app. Doing that it no longer advises you to isolate. The whole thing is pointless. I've got the app installed for check in purposes but turned contact tracing off. I've had both jabs and doing regular LFT's for work. For me the app is more of a hindrance than anything useful. Also answer this. If the official guidance on social distancing is 2m. Why then is the app racking up points if your phone is within 4m of the phone of a confirmed case.

View attachment 99863
I mean...deleting and reinstalling the app...what did you expect to happen?

The 2-4m distance is to capture spending prolonged periods of time in medium proximity to someone - at a pub, restaurant or on a train. Where the risk of exposure comes from the build-up of COVID aerosols in the air. This article explains it a bit more in detail. It's likely though that if the algorithm is tweaked this
I got "pinged" yesterday so self-isolating until the end of next Thursday. Feel fine, a lateral flow test has been negative and I find it highly improbable that I've caught anything, but as I was due to travel by train across the country to a training course I felt it would be irresponsible to do so just in case, plus if it does amount to something I'd rather be ill at home than in a hotel hours away from any support. That's always a possibility, app or no app, but I'd be furious with myself if I ignored it and ended up in that situation.
If it's any consolation, before the Euros I got pinged on the Friday and was going to see friends on the Sunday...decided to do a PCR test on Saturday (was convinced I was clear) and low-and-behold...tested positive. Had I not been alerted I wouldn't have caught it! (The LFT I did on Sunday evening had the thinnest of second purple lines, only showed up after about an hour)
 

infobleep

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I don't know if this is the right place to ask this but can anyone tell me who in Transport for London are part of the pilot not to isolate? I read kn the BBC that they were part of the pilot but further down the news article, they said staff linked by the app were isolating.

If that is the case who is part of the trial or are they lying?
 

Jonny

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Trick one is not to have the app at all. Trick 2 would be to load it onto a no-bluetooth device, maybe also make a mess of scanning the QR code!!!
 

Diplodicus

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Many individuals in tthe UK population have either minimised their infection risk by vaccine, by surviving the infection or pursuing a pattern of strict self-isolation.

The remaining citizens may have chosen to "keep calm and carry on" or are awaiting their opportunity to be vaccinated. These are the people who can spread the infection. The only way to stop this is for these remaining "unprotected" individuals to self-isolate until they have the antibodies. I cannot see this happening.

My conclusion is that remaining the COVID rules this morning was planned, almost from the outset, to enable "natural immunisation" (i.e. let the least vulnerable get infected and recover). After all, survival rates amongst the young and healthy are high.

The short-term challenge was the initial surge in numbers and a resulting (now relatively small) number of people who suffer severe reacions to the infection.

Test and Trace seems to be nothing more than a tool to intimidate citizens by throttling back contacts between the unprotected. By the start of the flu season, we should have ridden the surge that is about to sweep ashore.

Hopefully, someone will admit that this is the de facto path being followed and we can start an open discussion working out how to live with this (and similar) endemic threats.
 

infobleep

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The test and trace app hasn't been updated to include the changes. Either that or you need to install an app update for it to display the revised message.

My internal phone storage is low so an update might be waiting.
 

_toommm_

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The test and trace app hasn't been updated to include the changes. Either that or you need to install an app update for it to display the revised message.

My internal phone storage is low so an update might be waiting.

Mine updated about an hour ago:

AA66A614-F4DA-44ED-BFBA-A349F0FA406F.png

(The screenshot is of the NHS Track and Trace app, showing that ‘Most COVID-19 (coronavirus) legal restrictions have been lifted in England, including in LS6)
 

PHILIPE

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On the Cardiff Valley Network, the traincrews were only self-isolating for two days (Saturday and Sunday) with virtually full service again today. Plenty today in other areas
 

infobleep

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Mine updated about an hour ago:

View attachment 99894

(The screenshot is of the NHS Track and Trace app, showing that ‘Most COVID-19 (coronavirus) legal restrictions have been lifted in England, including in LS6)
Well, I've checked and there is no app update waiting to install but I'm still seeing out of date info in the app. I restarted the app too.

This is on Android.

photostudio_1626693079334.jpg
 
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Bantamzen

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Oh dear, chaos reigns. on the one hand business minister Agent Paul Scully says you do not necessarily have to isolate if pinged by the app, but a Downing Street spokesperson says its "crucial".

Cue the Monty Python music.....
 

WelshBluebird

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bspahh

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For me, the app updated to show the message that restrictions had been lifted yesterday afternoon. I didn't apply any updates from the Google Play store, but I did restart the phone during the day.
 

Bantamzen

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Some of the press were indicating last week that am update to the algorithms was in the pipe, but it is delayed (shock horror)


Plans to tweak the NHS Covid app to make its alerts less sensitive and avoid mass disruption to people’s lives will not be introduced for several weeks, a cabinet minister has said.
Senior government figures are scrambling to avoid the public deleting en-masse the app that notifies users if they have been identified as a “close contact” of a positive coronavirus case.
Robert Jenrick, the communities secretary, said the government had accepted the technology needed tweaking.
“It is important we have the app, that we take it seriously and that when we do get those messages, we act accordingly,” he told LBC radio on Thursday. “But we’re going to give further thought to how it is a proportionate response.
“The government is going to be setting out its plans in the coming weeks, so I’m not going to pre-empt those.”
 

Simon11

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Some of the press were indicating last week that am update to the algorithms was in the pipe, but it is delayed (shock horror)


O dear, they are really messing up!

I don't understand why they can't change the requirements when you get pinged? As soon as you are pinged, you should get a test ASAP, isolate for 1-2 days before having another test. If both are negative, you are free to roam again?

If the requirements are reasonable, people may consider keeping and actually using the app! I can't be the only one to check in when requested by staff and then cancel once inside to remove unnecessarily disruption to life?
 

Bantamzen

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O dear, they are really messing up!

I don't understand why they can't change the requirements when you get pinged? As soon as you are pinged, you should get a test ASAP, isolate for 1-2 days before having another test. If both are negative, you are free to roam again?

If the requirements are reasonable, people may consider keeping and actually using the app! I can't be the only one to check in when requested by staff and then cancel once inside to remove unnecessarily disruption to life?
Unfortunately even a couple of days could still cause huge problems for employers. I'm fairly sure there was an update a couple of months ago, which seemed to correlate to a sudden increase in pings. The fact that they are now scrambling to get another patch speaks volumes.

I'd already deleted this app yesterday, and the more I see the more I'm convinced it was the right move.
 

alxndr

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Unfortunately even a couple of days could still cause huge problems for employers.
Indeed. Any single day of my current isolation day would have put paid to the course I'm supposed to be on this week, so it wouldn't have made any difference if I'd been off for a couple of days or all six. They're still left paying me to sit at home, paying someone to cover me, probably have to pay for the course as it had to be cancelled at such short notice, and they'll have to wait until another slot to get me qualified to work on that type of level crossing.
 

ainsworth74

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Unfortunately even a couple of days could still cause huge problems for employers.

It does but I think it's closer to the right balance between trying to make sure people who do actually have it or might have it aren't just going around spreading it. Though personally I would still suggest that the self-isolation period should only last from when the ping comes into when you get a negative test result. Looking at my area today that could well be just about a day or so total. There's PCR testing available right now and the NHS advise that test results should take around a day to come through. That seems like a much more reasonable balance to strike between getting people back to normal but taking a sensible precaution.

Certainly though the stubborn reluctance to allow everyone to benefit from the "random trial" that Boris and Sunak were "lucky" enough to get onto is crackers and will just, quite understandably (especially after the performance this weekend!) cause people to delete the app or at the very least turn off the contract tracing function. I certainly haven't bothered with the contract tracing bit just the check in (on the basis that that remains sensible as it advises you to get tested which I'm perfectly willing to do rather than just imprison you for potentially no reason what so ever).
 

Bantamzen

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It does but I think it's closer to the right balance between trying to make sure people who do actually have it or might have it aren't just going around spreading it. Though personally I would still suggest that the self-isolation period should only last from when the ping comes into when you get a negative test result. Looking at my area today that could well be just about a day or so total. There's PCR testing available right now and the NHS advise that test results should take around a day to come through. That seems like a much more reasonable balance to strike between getting people back to normal but taking a sensible precaution.
The problem is that is the algorithm is flawed, then it will continue to ping more and more people and could for example wipe a maintenance depot, crew room, entire office etc etc. Clearly given the low incidence of pings in comparison back in May and previously, something drastic has changed in the last couple of months. Even as a two day isolation it could cause utter chaos in some sectors. I can tell you that in my home office, there has never been such a requirement, and I work for a public sector department!

Certainly though the stubborn reluctance to allow everyone to benefit from the "random trial" that Boris and Sunak were "lucky" enough to get onto is crackers and will just, quite understandably (especially after the performance this weekend!) cause people to delete the app or at the very least turn off the contract tracing function. I certainly haven't bothered with the contract tracing bit just the check in (on the basis that that remains sensible as it advises you to get tested which I'm perfectly willing to do rather than just imprison you for potentially no reason what so ever).
That was just another example of one rule for them.... We've seen that a lot in the last year and a half.
 

ainsworth74

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Clearly given the low incidence of pings in comparison back in May and previously, something drastic has changed in the last couple of months.

I mean, could it be possibly down to in May only having a couple of thousand cases per day on average and now having close to 40,000 cases per day. I mean that's quite a drastic change... ;)
 

WelshBluebird

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Clearly given the low incidence of pings in comparison back in May and previously, something drastic has changed in the last couple of months.
Yes it is has. We have many many more cases now than what we did in May, and people are out and about and in close contact much more now the restrictions have lifted. Both of those pretty obviously will lead to more people getting notified.
 

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