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What do you think about ‘pings’ because of the Track and Trace App?

TheEdge

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I mean, could it be possibly down to in May only having a couple of thousand cases per day on average and now having close to 40,000 cases per day. I mean that's quite a drastic change... ;)

It does seem to escape some people that maybe that is causing some of the problem. But no its all because the app doesn't work and vague "my civil liberties" arguments that belong in the weird parts of the US Libertarian movement.
 
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Bantamzen

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I mean, could it be possibly down to in May only having a couple of thousand cases per day on average and now having close to 40,000 cases per day. I mean that's quite a drastic change... ;)

Yes it is has. We have many many more cases now than what we did in May, and people are out and about and in close contact much more now the restrictions have lifted. Both of those pretty obviously will lead to more people getting notified.
Well yeah those are valid points, however with close to a million pings in 2 weeks, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that number won't be replicated in positive tests. I mean basically this is the equivalent of ringing your boss up to take 10 days off because someone sneezed on the train last night. This is the problem, there are companies literally saying they cannot operate properly anymore, even some saying that if this goes on for long the owners might move businesses out of the country to somewhere not determined to test forever.

Furthermore what's stopping people being pinged one day, isolating for 10, going back to work on day 11, being pinged on day 12, isolating for another 10....

It does seem to escape some people that maybe that is causing some of the problem. But no its all because the app doesn't work and vague "my civil liberties" arguments that belong in the weird parts of the US Libertarian movement.
I hope you'll remember that should you ever encounter a situation where you are denied a service because most of the staff are at home, and not "with covid"....
 

OuterDistant

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I'd start getting the toilet rolls in now. Surely if this carries on much longer, supermarket supply chains are going to be affected and panic buying will resume.
 

ainsworth74

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I'm going to go out on a limb and say that number won't be replicated in positive tests.

Well yes of course which is why it's crackers to persist with the policy of "you must self-isolate for the full period" rather than moving to a policy of "test and release" as it were. Which should also avoid quite so much of this issue you mention later:
Furthermore what's stopping people being pinged one day, isolating for 10, going back to work on day 11, being pinged on day 12, isolating for another 10....
But moving onto this:
This is the problem, there are companies literally saying they cannot operate properly anymore, even some saying that if this goes on for long the owners might move businesses out of the country to somewhere not determined to test forever.

Well yeah if you lose staff for potentially ten days at a time that's going to be a frackin nightmare to try and work around. And in reality basically impossible. I'm not necessarily opposed to tweaking the app to make it slightly less sensitive but for my money the biggest change needs to be a mixture of the double vaccinated not having to self-isolate from the app (unless they're symptomatic of course, though you'd hope they'd get a test off their own back) and for everyone else only having to self-isolate until they have a negative result which will still, of course, be disruptive. But losing a member of staff for maybe forty-eight hours is a very different kettle of fish to losing one for ten days.
 

GB

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I'll say it again. The app is voluntary and being pinged by it does not mean you have to isolate....isolating from the app is entirely voluntary. The government should be shouting this from the roof tops instead of applying different rules to different types of workers.
 

nlogax

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I'd start getting the toilet rolls in now. Surely if this carries on much longer, supermarket supply chains are going to be affected and panic buying will resume.

With the shortage of truck drivers I believe we're on the verge of some supply shortages even before the PingSplosion™ started. This really won't help.
 

Bantamzen

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Well yes of course which is why it's crackers to persist with the policy of "you must self-isolate for the full period" rather than moving to a policy of "test and release" as it were. Which should also avoid quite so much of this issue you mention later:

But moving onto this:


Well yeah if you lose staff for potentially ten days at a time that's going to be a frackin nightmare to try and work around. And in reality basically impossible. I'm not necessarily opposed to tweaking the app to make it slightly less sensitive but for my money the biggest change needs to be a mixture of the double vaccinated not having to self-isolate from the app (unless they're symptomatic of course, though you'd hope they'd get a test off their own back) and for everyone else only having to self-isolate until they have a negative result which will still, of course, be disruptive. But losing a member of staff for maybe forty-eight hours is a very different kettle of fish to losing one for ten days.
You could still have the same situation with 48 hours. It might not sound like a lot, but if you are trying to keep a business going when all your staff are off all at once. I mean you can easily be within 2 metres of someone and never be in their airflow. And the app only needs you to be within 2m for 15 minutes to start shouting at you, so many business could get wiped out for days in days.

I honestly think this testing regime is becoming the big problem. Sure you might find a couple of hundred thousand cases, but if it involves losing several million man days you have to ask just how long is that going to be viable? Like I said, its like calling in sick because someone sneezed.
 

35B

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Well yeah those are valid points, however with close to a million pings in 2 weeks, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that number won't be replicated in positive tests. I mean basically this is the equivalent of ringing your boss up to take 10 days off because someone sneezed on the train last night. This is the problem, there are companies literally saying they cannot operate properly anymore, even some saying that if this goes on for long the owners might move businesses out of the country to somewhere not determined to test forever.

Furthermore what's stopping people being pinged one day, isolating for 10, going back to work on day 11, being pinged on day 12, isolating for another 10....


I hope you'll remember that should you ever encounter a situation where you are denied a service because most of the staff are at home, and not "with covid"....
It would never replicate in positive tests - pre-emptive isolation is deliberately set wide to try to break the chain of transmission. The more relevant question is whether the impact of those pings impacts the transmission - something I've not seen any report of.

I deleted the app from my phone 10 days ago, on the basis that if somewhere needs me to check in, I'm willing to do so, but the risk/benefit of being pinged has changed markedly since it was introduced.
You could still have the same situation with 48 hours. It might not sound like a lot, but if you are trying to keep a business going when all your staff are off all at once. I mean you can easily be within 2 metres of someone and never be in their airflow. And the app only needs you to be within 2m for 15 minutes to start shouting at you, so many business could get wiped out for days in days.

I honestly think this testing regime is becoming the big problem. Sure you might find a couple of hundred thousand cases, but if it involves losing several million man days you have to ask just how long is that going to be viable? Like I said, its like calling in sick because someone sneezed.
The app instructions have always advised that in scenarios like being in a production line the app should not have tracking enabled. As for testing, I've no problem with the testing regime - my problem is that we aren't doing enough testing to support a test and release strategy, which would balance risk and consequence more evenly.
 

Cdd89

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I don't understand why they can't change the requirements when you get pinged? As soon as you are pinged, you should get a test ASAP, isolate for 1-2 days before having another test. If both are negative, you are free to roam again?
Because unfortunately too many in public health don’t “get” risk reduction and believe humans are automatons who will do whatever they say. Same as how we banned outdoor activities in lockdowns and moved people into higher risk (private) settings.
 

Bantamzen

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It would never replicate in positive tests - pre-emptive isolation is deliberately set wide to try to break the chain of transmission. The more relevant question is whether the impact of those pings impacts the transmission - something I've not seen any report of.
I've not seen any kind of report either, and I'm not sure it would something that would be easy to evidence. As a country we've done more than 229 million tests but they still keep coming.

I deleted the app from my phone 10 days ago, on the basis that if somewhere needs me to check in, I'm willing to do so, but the risk/benefit of being pinged has changed markedly since it was introduced.
Yes, the risk of a ping has increased, be it due to more cases, altered algorithms or a combination of both. I suspect as more people discover they don't need it for T&T anymore, lots more will delete it.

The app instructions have always advised that in scenarios like being in a production line the app should not have tracking enabled. As for testing, I've no problem with the testing regime - my problem is that we aren't doing enough testing to support a test and release strategy, which would balance risk and consequence more evenly.
Unfortunately that is not what is happening, people are taking a ping to mean instant isolation for 10 days, hence the growing concern within many industries. As someone said elsewhere, its rapidly becoming its own sort of lockdown by proxy.
 

infobleep

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alxndr

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Unfortunately that is not what is happening, people are taking a ping to mean instant isolation for 10 days, hence the growing concern within many industries. As someone said elsewhere, its rapidly becoming its own sort of lockdown by proxy.
And if they didn't we'd see similar comments to the thread a week or so ago regarding people being out and about while off sick. I'm sticking indoors after my ping partly because it's too darned hot, partly because it doesn't feel right that I should be going out and about after not going to work due to being pinged, and partly because that defeats the whole purpose of getting pinged!
 

bspahh

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I've not seen any kind of report either, and I'm not sure it would something that would be easy to evidence. As a country we've done more than 229 million tests but they still keep coming.


Yes, the risk of a ping has increased, be it due to more cases, altered algorithms or a combination of both. I suspect as more people discover they don't need it for T&T anymore, lots more will delete it.


Unfortunately that is not what is happening, people are taking a ping to mean instant isolation for 10 days, hence the growing concern within many industries. As someone said elsewhere, its rapidly becoming its own sort of lockdown by proxy.
Its not automatically 10 days. I was pinged and told to isolate for 6 days. I think that was because it was 4 days after my contact with the infected person.

Unfortunately that is not what is happening, people are taking a ping to mean instant isolation for 10 days, hence the growing concern within many industries. As someone said elsewhere, its rapidly becoming its own sort of lockdown by proxy.

When you get pinged, it says how many days you should isolate for. It can be 10 days. That is in whole days, until midnight. For me it was from 10pm-midnight on the first day and 5 full days, finishing at midnight. This is very clear on the app.
 
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Crossover

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Unless you delete the app you’ll keep getting irritating reminders to switch on Bluetooth.

Only get one reminder then it leaves you alone. At least in the Apple version.

I’m Samsung. It keeps going off without Bluetooth.
The contact tracing reminders appear to remind once and then not again. Mine on Apple never reminded me once, but then again I have notifications off for the app <(

Trick one is not to have the app at all. Trick 2 would be to load it onto a no-bluetooth device, maybe also make a mess of scanning the QR code!!!
Given what the app is supported on, I doubt you would find a device without Bluetooth, and from my recollection, the app won't function at all (even to turn contact tracing off) without access to the Bluetooth signal
 

fraser158

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What are people actually doing that gets them pinged?

I've been going to work in a supermarket every day and not been pinged.

Is it only really if people go to pubs and restaurants, etc.?
 

Ediswan

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Why is the country tying itself in knots over something that is not a legal requirement ? Even the legally binding rules after a contact from NHS Track & Trace are due to be relaxed in less than a month. Would it really make much difference if people started applying those relaxed rules to 'pings' now ?
 

Alex C.

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What are people actually doing that gets them pinged?

I've been going to work in a supermarket every day and not been pinged.

Is it only really if people go to pubs and restaurants, etc.?
I got pinged a few weeks ago as a result of a business lunch - one of the people i was with later tested positive for Covid, all the parties who were at our lunch then got a ping when they uploaded their test result. I suspect given there was no distancing that others around us would have been pinged.
 

DelayRepay

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Why is the country tying itself in knots over something that is not a legal requirement ? Even the legally binding rules after a contact from NHS Track & Trace are due to be relaxed in less than a month. Would it really make much difference if people started applying those relaxed rules to 'pings' now ?

I think any employer would be in a difficult situation if they instructed staff who had been 'pinged' to attend work anyway. It could be seen as endangering other employees unnecessarily and, although unlikely, if another employee contracted covid as a result could result in a legal claim.

Whilst I can legally go about my business if 'pinged', I would be breaking company policy and open to disciplinary action if I attended my office.
 

dk1

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What are people actually doing that gets them pinged?

I've been going to work in a supermarket every day and not been pinged.

Is it only really if people go to pubs and restaurants, etc.?
Sitting on buses & trains you have people sitting directly in front & behind & even beside you now. Often that’s for longer than 15 minutes so should any of those test positive over the next few days, your phone will no doubt sent you the notification.
 

alxndr

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What are people actually doing that gets them pinged?

I've been going to work in a supermarket every day and not been pinged.

Is it only really if people go to pubs and restaurants, etc.?
I'm pinged currently and the only pub or restaurant I've been in in since the start of covid was an empty one in May. Where it happened is a mystery to me.

I thought I'd been "got" on a train, but looking through the app again it turns out that my encounter happened the day before. That day all I'd done was left the hotel, walked to a training school, walked to a supermarket for lunch, and then walked back to the hotel in the afternoon. There was a thunderstorm so I stayed in and ate the snacks I'd brought the night before instead of going outside.

Other than when I was in my room, alone, I was with the same four other people who probably also have the app. Three definitely have not been pinged, no idea on the fourth.

One side of my hotel room was a service stairwell. Below and above may have had people in, but they must have been very quiet as I didn't hear them.
 

Failed Unit

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Sitting on buses & trains you have people sitting directly in front & behind & even beside you now. Often that’s for longer than 15 minutes so should any of those test positive over the next few days, your phone will no doubt sent you the notification.
Sorry if someone had already covered this before, but can you be ping by someone sat behind your cab, or are you told to switch off the app at work?
 

dk1

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Sorry if someone had already covered this before, but can you be ping by someone sat behind your cab, or are you told to switch off the app at work?
No worries mate. All devices must be switched off in the cab so that officially shouldn’t happen.
 

Vinnym

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This time last year the press were criticising T&T saying it was useless, it didn’t work and £37b had been wasted. Fast forward 12 months, it appears to be working and pinging more people as infections soar. The press are now criticising it because it seems to be working, funny times we are living through.
 

DannyMich2018

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What are people actually doing that gets them pinged?

I've been going to work in a supermarket every day and not been pinged.

Is it only really if people go to pubs and restaurants, etc.?
I got "pinged" a few weeks ago. I think I got it on the train. I and all others nearby were masked though. Train wasnt too busy and was at least several feet away from anyone else. Needless to say it was deleted!! I do twice weekly lateral flow tests for work anyway which were all clear. I'll never install it again.
 

Ianno87

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This time last year the press were criticising T&T saying it was useless, it didn’t work and £37b had been wasted. Fast forward 12 months, it appears to be working and pinging more people as infections soar. The press are now criticising it because it seems to be working, funny times we are living through.

Precisely my thinking:

Then:
"We need to fix T&T!"

Now:
"It's working too well!" (Possibly people who never assumed they would be pinged, only other people)
 

CrispyUK

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This time last year the press were criticising T&T saying it was useless, it didn’t work and £37b had been wasted. Fast forward 12 months, it appears to be working and pinging more people as infections soar. The press are now criticising it because it seems to be working, funny times we are living through.
It would be interesting to know what percentage of those getting pinged by the app actually turned out to have caught coronavirus as a result of that contact, a high percentage would show the app is working well, otherwise it’s just creating disruption.

I can appreciate the frustration of those getting pinged, particularly if you are double-vaccinated and/or regularly testing yourself anyway. I imagine it’s really annoying if you’ve been on holiday, paid hundreds of pounds for the collection of various tests you need and then get contact traced from a case on the plane!
 

Watershed

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Precisely my thinking:

Then:
"We need to fix T&T!"

Now:
"It's working too well!" (Possibly people who never assumed they would be pinged, only other people)
I think the criticism does have a legitimate basis.

Then:
"We're spending £37bn on something that is useless at stopping infection chains"

Now:
"We're spending £37bn on something that is causing untold economic damage whilst not really reducing deaths or hospitalisations very much"

It would be interesting to know what percentage of those getting pinged by the app actually turned out to have caught coronavirus as a result of that contact, a high percentage would show the app is working well, otherwise it’s just creating disruption.
I recall hearing a figure between 1 and 5%.

So clearly, it's not nothing (remember that current population-wide positivity is around 1% anyway). But the vast majority of people who are pinged won't have Covid, whether that's due to being vaccinated, having had Covid before, or simply because they weren't in close enough contact and/or for long enough.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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Well its now decimating train services. As predicted the risk was never people catching it it was the amount of people being pinged or instructed to self isolate. This will cause more disruption than any lockdown if not suspended.
 

dk1

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Well its now decimating train services. As predicted the risk was never people catching it it was the amount of people being pinged or instructed to self isolate. This will cause more disruption than any lockdown if not suspended.
It’s just something else we will all learn to live with for now. After the last 16 months or so I’m sure we’ll get through this stage of the pandemic.
 

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