FrozenPoints
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Are Super Off-Peak valid for the specific train you book, or does it work similar to Off-Peak tickets where you get on ANY off-peak train, basically after 10am.
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What does 'Super Off Peak' mean?
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SS4
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Super Off-Peak are essentially Off-Peak but with greater restrictions (I think you have to return on a certain day rather than within a calendar month but I could be chasing a false idea here)
ChrisTheRef
Established Member
It will depend on where you're travelling from and to.
To answer generally, no, super off-peak tickets will NOT tie you to a specific train
Ivo
Established Member
The main difference concerns the evening peak. Standard off-peak tickets are not valid for roughly two hours in the evening out of Paddington, whereas Super Off-Peaks are not valid for around four hours. That aside, there's very little (if anything) in it.
For the benefit of SS4 (and anyone else who may not know), there is such a thing as a Super Off-Peak Day Return, but it sees little if any use outside of the former NSE area. I know only of c2c and NXEA that offer "CBA" tickets (not sure where CBA comes from though...).
For the benefit of SS4 (and anyone else who may not know), there is such a thing as a Super Off-Peak Day Return, but it sees little if any use outside of the former NSE area. I know only of c2c and NXEA that offer "CBA" tickets (not sure where CBA comes from though...).
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No, that's Advance tickets (and various promotions that are effectively variants of advance tickets)
Similar, yes, "Valid at or after 1000" would be an example of a possible Super Off Peak restriction, however you would have to look up the restriction code and text for the specific ticket you want.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Tickets where you have to return the same day are suffixed as Day. According to National Rail website, tickets suffixed Day are still the same type as those that are not. So, by that logic, someone may be able to justify boarding a peak time train out of King's Cross such as the 18:30 with an Off Peak Day to Stevenage? (The boards say: Super Off Peak not valid, Off Peak valid!) In reality the outward portion of an Off Peak Day to Stevenage is valid but the return portion isn't. However the boards suggest otherwise. Anyone fancy trying it?!
bb21
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Like others have said, depends on the restriction code of each ticket.
There are many restrictions that differ widely from 10am. London Midland's OPR (Super Off-Peak Return) tickets are not valid for arrival at London Terminals before 1300 on weekdays, NXEA and FCC's CBA (Off-Peak Day Return) tickets are only available at weekends with no restrictions, and not available at all on weekdays, to name a few.
Tickets where you have to return the same day are suffixed as Day. According to National Rail website, tickets suffixed Day are still the same type as those that are not. So, by that logic, someone may be able to justify boarding a peak time train out of King's Cross such as the 18:30 with an Off Peak Day to Stevenage? (The boards say: Super Off Peak not valid, Off Peak valid!) In reality the outward portion of an Off Peak Day to Stevenage is valid but the return portion isn't. However the boards suggest otherwise. Anyone fancy trying it?!
ScotRail correctly has notices up at Waverley saying Off-Peak Day tickets are not valid between (whatever the evening peak is; I think it's 1616 to 1842).
Doesn't that depend on where you're going to? You can use an Off-peak Day back to Glasgow on the 1626 or 1630 services so the sign's rather misleading.
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Also the FCC super-off peak tickets are only available when issued TO London terminals (or travel card version), you can't get one to other stations.
BOJ is allowed so it is cheaper for example from Potters Bar to get the CBA to Kings cross than a CDR to finsbury Park.
I seem to remember FCC let them be used during weekday off-peak periods in August last year (though most of the TVMs would not sell them during the week!)
Failed Unit
Established Member
That is where it gets complex, that only applies to Scotrail priced tickets, East coast (and other operators) off-peak tickets are valid.
That is the major porblem with ticketing, you don't really know who prices your tickets in many cases but it makes a big difference to if it is valid or not.
Lets take a Super-Off peak and an example I have used in another thread.
London - Stirling
Not Valid on East Coast between 1459 and 1845 (well you can't use it on the currently last train at 1800), but it is Valid on all Virgin services out of Euston!
Simple!
I may have remembered the times wrongly. I shall check again when I am in EDB this weekend.
Does East Coast issue off-peak day tickets?
185
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It's like an off peak ticket, but the restrictions on it aren't just stupid, they're SUPER stupid 
Nonetheless it'll be an unusual station if all off-peak day ticket restrictions are the same.
Failed Unit
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Yes, Edinburgh - Glasgow are east coast only but others are inter-available. Dunbar for example.
scotsman
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There's a list of easements on the notice
Failed Unit
Established Member
Glasgow has all the SPT tickets as exclusions. On the 1700 you hear off-peak nit valid unless travelling to Croy.
Cheap day returns were far more distinguishable from saver returns than off-peak day returns are from off-peak returns.
The main First ScotRail restriction on Off-Peak Day Returns is H1.
OUTWARD AND RETURN TRAVEL
By any train except those timed to depart Mondays-Fridays before 0915.
Passengers MAY NOT JOIN at Glasgow Queen St or Central, Edinburgh or Haymarket Mondays-Fridays any service departing between 1642 and 1809 nor the 1815 Edinburgh-Glasgow Queen Street & the 1815 Glasgow Queen Street-Edinburgh services (except: Passengers may join the 1756 to Glasgow via Shotts).
Fares set by other TOCs will of course work differently. If the ticket is from Berwick-upon-Tweed then any train after 0915 is fair game. From Dunbar 0500 and later will do.
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Failed Unit
Established Member
Do any of the former strathclyde PTE tickets have evening restrictions?
Going back to the original question, back to BR
Blue saver became super saver which became super-off peak.
White saver became saver which became off peak.
Many operators abolished the super saver, which in BR was not valid on Fridays or in the peak so very few fares remain.
GNER introduced a business saver which had very similar restrictions to the old saver. It provided a more reasonable price for some trains. It was in regulated the saver was regulated. When "simplification took place" the saver became super off peak and the business saver became the off-peak. It gave some examples of the worse fare increases simplification forced on the industry. To make things even more simple if no business saver existed the saver became the off-peak. Gner had killed off the super-saver. Everyone confused yet
Going back to the original question, back to BR
Blue saver became super saver which became super-off peak.
White saver became saver which became off peak.
Many operators abolished the super saver, which in BR was not valid on Fridays or in the peak so very few fares remain.
GNER introduced a business saver which had very similar restrictions to the old saver. It provided a more reasonable price for some trains. It was in regulated the saver was regulated. When "simplification took place" the saver became super off peak and the business saver became the off-peak. It gave some examples of the worse fare increases simplification forced on the industry. To make things even more simple if no business saver existed the saver became the off-peak. Gner had killed off the super-saver. Everyone confused yet
According to National Rail, all Off Peak fares are the same 'category' and if there is a cheaper fare with more restrictions then it will be called Super Off Peak.
However in reality this is a lie (go on, correct me if I'm wrong ATOC!) as Off Peak Day often has more restrictions than Off Peak! Last night I boarded the 1830 from King's Cross and the board said Off Peak tickets were valid, however I know that Off Peak Day tickets are not valid (unless it's the outward portion to Stevenage), so what would happen if someone boarded and refused to pay an excess on that basis? If it went to court, could a customer successfully argue that National Rail says that if a ticket is more restrictive it will be called "Super" but their ticket was not, and that because the screens said Off Peak was valid and Super Off Peak wasn't valid, as their ticket is Off Peak Day and not Super Off Peak Day, it is therefore valid according to the information that is publicly available/advertised? If someone is prepared to challenge the TOCs on this issue, that would be very interesting indeed.
These statements are incompatible with the reality of the situation!
I await NR Lisa's response with great anticipation...
However in reality this is a lie (go on, correct me if I'm wrong ATOC!) as Off Peak Day often has more restrictions than Off Peak! Last night I boarded the 1830 from King's Cross and the board said Off Peak tickets were valid, however I know that Off Peak Day tickets are not valid (unless it's the outward portion to Stevenage), so what would happen if someone boarded and refused to pay an excess on that basis? If it went to court, could a customer successfully argue that National Rail says that if a ticket is more restrictive it will be called "Super" but their ticket was not, and that because the screens said Off Peak was valid and Super Off Peak wasn't valid, as their ticket is Off Peak Day and not Super Off Peak Day, it is therefore valid according to the information that is publicly available/advertised? If someone is prepared to challenge the TOCs on this issue, that would be very interesting indeed.
National Rail said:
National Rail said:
National Rail said:
These statements are incompatible with the reality of the situation!
I await NR Lisa's response with great anticipation...
bb21
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I thought they both became Off-Peak at Complication. Super Off-Peak was a brand new product.
For which flow? You can't answer any of these generic questions without knowing which specific flow is being referred to. The statement by Failed Unit may well be correct for a particular ticket, or range of tickets, but certainly isn't true for all of them!
Some former Savers are Anytime, some are Super Off Peak, and some are Off Peak.
I would also argue that Super Off Peak is not one product at all but several products all pretending to be the same (but it's a lie), this is pretty obvious given that there are (at least) two codes of Super Off Peak (without the Day), namely SSR and OPR, and that it is not a 'new' product either.
iphone76
Member
At Wickford Station (NXEA) this evening I noticed there were adverts for something called a "Weekend Hero Fare". I guess it is a marketing name for the super off-peak ticket, but I wonder if they really need another name for an off-peak ticket.
Excellent news
This new, simple, name means that I can buy with confidence and I know exactly where I stand, it also means I am doing the economy a favour, as there is no economic case for off peak fares according to ATOC, however as this fare is a hero fare, I guess there is an economic case for it.It must be new, as I can't find it in Avantix NFM8. The cheapest fare I can find from Wickford to London Terminals is £12.50 for a Super Off Peak Day Return.
iphone76
Member
Excellent news
It must be new, as I can't find it in Avantix NFM8. The cheapest fare I can find from Wickfoed to London Terminals is £12.50 for a Super Off Peak Day Return.
That's the price on the poster! Maybe it is just a marketing name for the Super Off Peak Day Return. Luckily, the new annual season ticket weekend scheme starts this weekend so my mate can travel with me to London this Saturday for free. Well £2980
The Colonel
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On SWT we have the "benefit" of the Super Off peak fares, with the later inward journey to London and evening restrictions as shown here:-
Super Off Peak Day Return
Including Super Off Peak Day Travelcard
Ticket validity: Valid on the date printed on the ticket.
Outward travel time:
- Generally valid for travel after 1100 Monday to Friday. If you are travelling on a longer distance journey to London, they are valid on trains arriving into London Waterloo or London Victoria at 1200 or later, Monday to Friday*.
-Valid at any time at weekends and public holidays.
Return travel time:
- Not valid on trains leaving: London Waterloo or Victoria between 1600 and 1900; Vauxhall between 1604 and 1904; Clapham Junction between 1607 and 1909. All times are inclusive, Monday to Friday*.
- Valid at any time at weekends and public holidays.
What I've wondered is if this is a Travelcard, how the evening restriction is enforceable? After all an Off Peak Travelcard is valid after 09.30 with no evening restrictions. So how can SWT refuse to allow it between W'loo & C Jct in the evening, and where does Victoria come in as SWT don't serve it? After all the same Travelcard would be valid from Liverpool St to Stratford or Paddington to Ealing Broadway between 16.00 & 19.00 so how can SWT bar it on their patch? I'd be interested to hear any valid reasons in the fare manuals.
Super Off Peak Day Return
Including Super Off Peak Day Travelcard
Ticket validity: Valid on the date printed on the ticket.
Outward travel time:
- Generally valid for travel after 1100 Monday to Friday. If you are travelling on a longer distance journey to London, they are valid on trains arriving into London Waterloo or London Victoria at 1200 or later, Monday to Friday*.
-Valid at any time at weekends and public holidays.
Return travel time:
- Not valid on trains leaving: London Waterloo or Victoria between 1600 and 1900; Vauxhall between 1604 and 1904; Clapham Junction between 1607 and 1909. All times are inclusive, Monday to Friday*.
- Valid at any time at weekends and public holidays.
What I've wondered is if this is a Travelcard, how the evening restriction is enforceable? After all an Off Peak Travelcard is valid after 09.30 with no evening restrictions. So how can SWT refuse to allow it between W'loo & C Jct in the evening, and where does Victoria come in as SWT don't serve it? After all the same Travelcard would be valid from Liverpool St to Stratford or Paddington to Ealing Broadway between 16.00 & 19.00 so how can SWT bar it on their patch? I'd be interested to hear any valid reasons in the fare manuals.
It isn't restricted within the zones.
They can't.
SWT set the terms so leaving from Victoria doesn't alter the validity (unless the restrictions list that as an easement) however they can't restrict travel from Victoria to Clapham or any other route within the Zones
It's only barred outside the boundary.
So if you are checked on a train between London & the boundary you are valid, unless of course the next station is outside the boundary!
clagmonster
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Many super cheap day returns will also have the same restriction code and assuming they are routed 'any permitted', most tickets valid into Waterloo are also valid into Victoria.
Yes, but the variants may also be called 'Super off peak', such as the
'Super Off Peak Day Travelcard' from Liverpool / Manchester to London, which is booked-train only on the outward.
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