What features should be on intercity trains?

[ooo]

What facilities do you think all intercity trains should have?

I've noticed on a number of discussions there's been complaints about the lack of certain features on trains so I was wondering which ones people see as important and necessary.

Choose as many from the poll as you think are should be available. If I've missed any off the poll tell me and I'll add it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wifi, plug sockets and First Class.

Either trolley or buffet, I don't mind (even better would be a sit-in Bistrowagen or Eurostar style standing cafe).

Don't care so much about doors. There are strengths and weaknesses of both options. I presently lean towards a 24-26m vehicle length with wide doors roughly at quarters (2 windows/seating bays at the ends and 5 or 6 in the middle section) and luggage racks in the inevitably blank spaces near the doors, or short vehicles like a FLIRT with a roughly central single wide set of doors.

 

[cj_1985]

Very simple...
Seats.

If you want to use the internet, pay for data... don't expect it to be provided, for free

 

[greyman42]

Very simple...
Seats.

If you want to use the internet, pay for data... don't expect it to be provided, for free

Comfortable seats.

 

[rustbucket]

First class & decent size tables (even if only seat back ones)

If i'm travelling it's normally with work which means I want space for both a coffee and a laptop - not to have to make a choice of one or the other!

 

[class387]

All of the above other than doors. For me where the doors are have no correlation to whether or not it is intercity. A 350/3 is just as, if not more, comfortable than a 444.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Many of the doors on 444s aren’t at the end anyway.

 

[Eccles1983]

Forget first class.

One class for all, and charging ports for electronics.

The rest is nice to have.

 

[ooo]

Now added information displays and reservations to the poll

 

[Hadders]

Quiet carriage

 

[ScotTrains]

Proper first class! The more luxurious the better. Modern first class seems to get worse with every new train design. People will happily pay a lot more to travel 1st if there is a significant difference between it and standard class. In the future the train will have to compete with cheap, driverless electric cars, therefore first class will need to stand out to attract business.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Very simple...
Seats.

If you want to use the internet, pay for data... don't expect it to be provided, for free

Well, this is the 21st century - internet is necessary, and data runs out.

All of the above other than doors. For me where the doors are have no correlation to whether or not it is intercity. A 350/3 is just as, if not more, comfortable than a 444.

Doors at a third and two thirds of the way through a train signify short distance, suburban or commuter train. 350s are not IC and the door positioning makes it obvious. An IC train also needs doors out of the main carriage area into a vestibule.

Forget first class.

One class for all, and charging ports for electronics.

The rest is nice to have.

Ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous comment! You may like to sit in Standard class with uncomfortable 2x2 (or sometimes even 3x2) seating and no recline/window curtain or complementaries but first class is often far from full and on intercity trains some of us like
to pay for a little luxury. If you want one class intercity trains in Britain then I pray that you don’t become transport minister!

Proper first class! The more luxurious the better. Modern first class seems to get worse with every new train design. People will happily pay a lot more to travel 1st if there is a significant difference between it and standard class. In the future the train will have to compete with cheap, driverless electric cars, therefore first class will need to stand out to attract business.

I very much agree and @Eccles1983 there you go. @ScotTrains is very right on how s/he says that people are willing to pay a significant difference if there is added value to the service. If I travel to Glasgow with Virgin, I get a larger seat, generous and much appreciated recline, window curtain, Reading light, large table, plug sockets, ample legroom, complementary high speed WiFi, a quieter atmosphere, and on a weekday something like a lamb shank with sautéed potatoes and seasonal vegetables followed by chocolate torte served to my table by a smiley first class host who will also bring me a coffee and Golden Oat Crumbles to dip, a newspaper and a Schweppes Lemonade. Oh, and the toilets always seem to be nicer in first too.

If I arrive early at my origin station I like to go to the first class lounge and relax in a leather armchair sipping from a complementary bottle fizzy water and nibbling on a complementary cherry Danish pastry whilst making use of the complementary WiFi by typing on the forum. It’s certainly nicer than shuddering waiting for a platform number on a smelly concourse anyway.

Different people like travelling all different ways.

 

[Skie]

With the way modern trains are built (and their windows coated) you do tend to have a terrible phone signal which then also affects battery life. A femtocell would be nice to alleviate that.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

With the way modern trains are built (and their windows coated) you do tend to have a terrible phone signal which then also affects battery life. A femtocell would be nice to alleviate that.

That problem only exists on the Voyager family of trains and, to a lesser extent, the 390s.

Everything built since has had radio-transparent windows.

 

[Halish Railway]

Something that bugs me is when you can't choose what seat you reserve e.g. TPE. Also NO 'reserve on the go' that XC uses.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Something that bugs me is when you can't choose what seat you reserve e.g. TPE.

Some TOCs use it as a selling point for their website. Personally I think there needs to be a standard interface onto a seat selector so as to make it available via all sales channels.

Also NO 'reserve on the go' that XC uses.

I'd go the other way. Marked reserved and unreserved areas and reservations wih seat selection available from all sales channels right up to boarding and indeed on board. It would completely solve the common issues caused by failure to place reservations, not to mention the Euston scrum (and regional equivalents).

 

[Clansman]

Dedicated unreserved carriages should be a must for Intercity services. Virgin West Coast set the example right for this, as opposed to their counterparts on the East Coast with their half arsed approach on the 225s.

 

[Halish Railway]

Do XC Class 221's have an unreserved coach so that they can get away from losing reservations if a 220 ends up on what should be a 221 diagram?

 

[superalbs]

Do XC Class 221's have an unreserved coach so that they can get away from losing reservations if a 220 ends up on what should be a 221 diagram?

Yes, Class 221s have unreserved coaches, but the Class 220s unacceptably do not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, Class 221s have unreserved coaches, but the Class 220s unacceptably do not.

To be fair, everything about the use of 4-car 22x on XC services is unacceptable, not just that aspect. They are quite simply way under capacity on almost every service they operate.

 

[Halish Railway]

Yep - I went on the 10:00 from Leeds (Originated at York) on a Sunday and I would say it was 75% full upon departure.

 

[xotGD]

All seats aligned with windows.

 

[physics34]

As mentioned on another thread, i think there is room for a premium economy coach. No frills first class basically. Nicer seats with good legroom

 

[Chester1]

As mentioned on another thread, i think there is room for a premium economy coach. No frills first class basically. Nicer seats with good legroom

I fully agree but anytime it has been suggested the media say its reintroducing third class. There is definately a market for a middle ground and Virgin could introduce it on their Voyager services without any stock changes. Their coach Ds where originally either first or standard class depending on time of service and would be ideal for premium economy. Free soft and hot drinks, guaranteed table + socket, wifi and an at seat service for hot food (but not free). I suspect ToCs don't push for it because the average premium economy passenger would be someone downgrading from first class rather than upgrading from standard. I would certainly support DfT making it a mandatory part of future intercity ITTs though. VTWC would be better as 2-2-5 and 2-3-6.

I think the main two enthusiast wishes are not on the list - loco-hauled and seats aligned with windows!

 

[mallard]

If the TOC accepts "m-tickets", then power sockets on all trains should be a basic requirement. Lack of (working) sockets should be a valid defence for not being able to present such a ticket. If the "m-ticket" application requires a data connection to display purchased tickets, then this must also be provided (if Wifi is paid, the server that the app uses can be "whitelisted" to be accessible for free). Nobody should be required to pay extra to retrieve their already purchased ticket.

Trolleys have no place on services where either there is expected to be a significant amount of luggage (especially since current luggage rack designs can take 4-6 reasonably sized "holiday" cases, while the carriage has a capacity of around 50 passengers) or standing passengers. That rules out virtually all "InterCity" services and most commuter services. Maybe have them on the "regional express" routes.

Information displays should be on all train services and should be improved; take some ideas from the continent, have timetable information, connections-at-next-station information, etc. Reduce the number and length of audio announcements.

I'd hazard to say that seat reservations and first class are what makes it an "InterCity" service; neither are needed on other types of route.

 

[fowler9]

Someone mentioned dedicated unreserved coaches and I totally agree. They are often the emptiest coaches which works for me. The things I left unticked where quiet coach and trolley service. Regarding quiet coaches they are next to impossible to enforce and just seem to cause arguments. Trolleys, don't care.

 

[mushroomchow]

You missed seating compartments.

A man can dream, eh?

 

[Eccles1983]

Ridiculous ridiculous ridiculous comment! You may like to sit in Standard class with uncomfortable 2x2 (or sometimes even 3x2) seating and no recline/window curtain or complementaries but first class is often far from full and on intercity trains some of us like
to pay for a little luxury. If you want one class intercity trains in Britain then I pray that you don’t become transport minister!


I very much agree and @Eccles1983 there you go. @ScotTrains is very right on how s/he says that people are willing to pay a significant difference if there is added value to the service. If I travel to Glasgow with Virgin, I get a larger seat, generous and much appreciated recline, window curtain, Reading light, large table, plug sockets, ample legroom, complementary high speed WiFi, a quieter atmosphere, and on a weekday something like a lamb shank with sautéed potatoes and seasonal vegetables followed by chocolate torte served to my table by a smiley first class host who will also bring me a coffee and Golden Oat Crumbles to dip, a newspaper and a Schweppes Lemonade. Oh, and the toilets always seem to be nicer in first too.

If I arrive early at my origin station I like to go to the first class lounge and relax in a leather armchair sipping from a complementary bottle fizzy water and nibbling on a complementary cherry Danish pastry whilst making use of the complementary WiFi by typing on the forum. It’s certainly nicer than shuddering waiting for a platform number on a smelly concourse anyway.

I dont pay for first class. Perks of actually working on the trains.

But you need to remove your head from ones own rear.

I'm not being funny but aren't you still a child? You may see it completely different when you're paying full bat.

Get rid of first class and get more people onto an already overloaded system to alleviate problems.

You can always read the beano and have your fizzy pop sat in a normal seat.

 

[bramling]

What facilities do you think all intercity trains should have?

I've noticed on a number of discussions there's been complaints about the lack of certain features on trains so I was wondering which ones people see as important and necessary.

Choose as many from the poll as you think are should be available. If I've missed any off the poll tell me and I'll add it.

Personally, I'd happily get rid of reservations off Intercity trains. I find they create more problems than they solve, in terms of people not getting the seat type they want, squabbles, etc -- plus during times of disruption they often don't apply which is precisely the time they're most needed. I realise some may value them, in which case an extra charge should apply, and not just a nominal sum like £1, but something more hefty than that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally, I'd happily get rid of reservations off Intercity trains. I find they create more problems than they solve, in terms of people not getting the seat type they want, squabbles, etc -- plus during times of disruption they often don't apply which is precisely the time they're most needed. I realise some may value them, in which case an extra charge should apply, and not just a nominal sum like £1, but something more hefty than that.

All that is solved by moving to marking reserved/unreserved areas and doing away with placing them. Compulsory would be a step too far (I really oppose this) though.

In disruption there are real improvements that that could provide, too - "your train is cancelled, you can either take the next one and cram in/stand, or there's plenty of reservations on the train 2 hours later - would you like some Delay Repay to pay for a nice meal and a much more enjoyable journey?"

I think an awful lot of people cram onto certain trains simply because they don't know until they are there that they will be busy.