What incentive is there to go by train?

[DB]

Surprisingly 45% of people buy train tickets from a ticket office, with just 8% from a vending machine, and 37% online. About 2/3rds of people using a vending machine are collecting tickets rather than buying them.

Given how confusing and awkward many ticket vending machines are, that's no great surprise. I think I've got the Northern ones sussed now, but even so if there's no queue in the ticket office will always use that in preference as it's quicker!

 

[Starmill]

We can jump through logical hoops to 'prove' that rail travel is of minor importance if it makes you feel comfortable, but the ridership trend has been upwards long term so you will have to bend logic increasingly far to support your assertion. I don't see why you are so emotionally invested in the idea that rial travel is for a minority anyway - do we feel any less special in the knowledge that our use of train travel does not make us part of an elite?

Whatever, the success in winning new traffic is proof that there are plenty of 'incentives' to choose the train and I think that the man or woman in the street would be able to do a better job articulating them than this forum of alleged rail enthusiasts. Maybe we as a community feel these benefits are in some way 'wooly' and are reticent to articulate amongst our peers for fear of ridicule? As a leisure traveller I certainly find train travel on the whole to be an enjoyable experience. Yes there are occasions when I misjudge and end up on a rammed service - and I pity my brother whose town visit route from Worcester to Birmingham is rarely anything but - whereas the majority of time it is a joy.

Mainly my motivation is that I think that too many people in the industry are complacent about growth, and that the government are fairly indifferent towards whether the growth is in railways or not. Statistically it's vital to distinguish between a fast growing market share and a commanding market position. Rail has done splendidly on the former but is as yet not approaching the latter.

 

[jtuk]

Reality of the signal on the WCML isn't good enough for a phone call or a continuous data call. Not on vodafone anyway.

It’s fine on O2 - except for Tring cutting and some of the tunnels.

It has always been dreadful on 3 in my experience so I would guess that O2 is the exception rather than the rule. I'll test EE next time I'm down in London but I can't see myself doing that for the foreseeable future unfortunately

 

[Energy]

It has always been dreadful on 3 in my experience so I would guess that O2 is the exception rather than the rule. I'll test EE next time I'm down in London but I can't see myself doing that for the foreseeable future unfortunately

I believe EE are used for the onboard WiFi so they will probably be quite good.

 

[DB]

I believe EE are used for the onboard WiFi so they will probably be quite good.

They may well use multiple networks, plus of course the antennae are much bigger than on a phone.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Free off peak parking would be an incentive IMHO.

 

[py_megapixel]

Free off peak parking would be an incentive IMHO.

Would have to require display of a train ticket, otherwise people will abuse it.

 

[xotGD]

Free off peak parking would be an incentive IMHO.

Good luck finding a parking space at many stations if you aren't there at the crack of dawn.

 

[Bald Rick]

Good luck finding a parking space at many stations if you aren't there at the crack of dawn.

I think @ChiefPlanner meant in the current circumstances, rather than under the ‘old normal’

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Good luck finding a parking space at many stations if you aren't there at the crack of dawn.

I can assure you that as far as SAC is concerned - more than 4 car in the car park at the moment is a crowd. At 0700 - (I see it most days) ......Basingstoke , which used to have a waiting system for spaces , has about 15 cars - not spaces - at the moment. If you want to get some off peak traffic on the trains - (let alone peak) - this would assist patronage. Nothing to lose.

 

[xotGD]

Forster Square's main purpose is to get people 15 minutes down the track to leeds and back. Not sure it needs much else.

I think @ChiefPlanner meant in the current circumstances, rather than under the ‘old normal’

I can assure you that as far as SAC is concerned - more than 4 car in the car park at the moment is a crowd. At 0700 - (I see it most days) ......Basingstoke , which used to have a waiting system for spaces , has about 15 cars - not spaces - at the moment. If you want to get some off peak traffic on the trains - (let alone peak) - this would assist patronage. Nothing to lose.

I was referring to normal times. A temporary relaxation of station parking charges might be a good idea.

 

[py_megapixel]

I was referring to normal times. A temporary relaxation of station parking charges might be a good idea.

I think you'll find that people will just leave their vehicles in the carpark even if not using the train, which defeats the object of trying to get people back on the trains.

You can see this at various places, where people will for example choose to fill up the carparks that supermarkets provide for free rather than use the council ones which have a charge, regardless of how negligible that charge may be.

 

[Bald Rick]

Clearly, such a proposal for free off peak parking would need to be selective. No point doing to for stations close to other attractions, eg the middle of the town centre, or where other parking is scarce/expensive. But certainly worth considering where this is not the case, like St Albans which is where @ChiefPlanner was referring to, and I completely agree.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think you'll find that people will just leave their vehicles in the carpark even if not using the train, which defeats the object of trying to get people back on the trains.

You can see this at various places, where people will for example choose to fill up the carparks that supermarkets provide for free rather than use the council ones which have a charge, regardless of how negligible that charge may be.

Guilty as charged - left my vehicle in a Tesco car park whilst I walked over to the town Wetherspoon to have a half and "tick it off"

Mind you I did buy something in Tesco and clearly observed the 2 hour free limit (think I parked for just over one hour including eating my lunch in the car before leaving).

 

[al78]

Unless demand gets so high from families that more rolling stock has to be procured. However the extra emissions from longer rolling stock will be far less than the equivalent number of car seats on the road.

Or they could do an XC and cram them all on short trains regardless!

Often whenever someone on here has asked why some company can't put more trains on, the answer is "where do they get the trains from?", implying that getting hold of extra trains is very difficult. I suspect that cramming people onto the existing stock is the first answer to increasing demand.

 

[miami]

Good luck finding a parking space at many stations if you aren't there at the crack of dawn.

Only reason to charge for parking would be if there's capacity restrictions

 

[py_megapixel]

Often whenever someone on here has asked why some company can't put more trains on, the answer is "where do they get the trains from?", implying that getting hold of extra trains is very difficult. I suspect that cramming people onto the existing stock is the first answer to increasing demand.

It's not that it's exactly complicated to actually order/build new trains, especially if the fleet is modern enough that a follow-on option is available to the original order - but the procurement is complex and the funding not usually forthcoming.

 

[DB]

It's not that it's exactly complicated to actually order/build new trains, especially if the fleet is modern enough that a follow-on option is available to the original order - but the procurement is complex and the funding not usually forthcoming.

It also doesn't help that pretty much nothing is compatible with anything else! If there was some standardisation of couplers (incouding heights and positions of electrical boxes) and a standardised set of communication protocols between units this would be easier.

 

[stj]

Only reason to charge for parking would be if there's capacity restrictions

No capacity problem at my local station as there is no other reason to park there, just a money spinner.

 

[Birkonian]

There is absolutely no incentive for me to use Avanti at the moment. My daughter has started a new job in London. her car is still here in Wirral while she sorts out a parking permit. My wife and I were planning to drive her car to London and get the train back to Liverpool on 16th August. Mortified to find that there are no Advance tickets available at any time that day. Standard single is £128.00 each. We need to renew our two Together Railcard so the even if we do that the cost would be £90 x 2 + £30 = £210 plus Merseyrail. The solution is to take two cars and drive home which is not environmentally friendly at all. A quick check shows that LNER are offering Advance tickets that day on their routes so it can't just be because of reduced capacity. We could book Advance West Midlands trains to Liverpool but don't fancy 3 hours+ on a train especially during the current situation.

 

[py_megapixel]

There is absolutely no incentive for me to use Avanti at the moment. My daughter has started a new job in London. her car is still here in Wirral while she sorts out a parking permit. My wife and I were planning to drive her car to London and get the train back to Liverpool on 16th August. Mortified to find that there are no Advance tickets available at any time that day. Standard single is £128.00 each. We need to renew our two Together Railcard so the even if we do that the cost would be £90 x 2 + £30 = £210 plus Merseyrail. The solution is to take two cars and drive home which is not environmentally friendly at all. A quick check shows that LNER are offering Advance tickets that day on their routes so it can't just be because of reduced capacity. We could book Advance West Midlands trains to Liverpool but don't fancy 3 hours+ on a train especially during the current situation.

This is because Avanti have significantly shortened the amount of time in advance that tickets can be booked. If you try to book a few days beforehand Advances may well be available for Avanti.

 

[Bald Rick]

There is absolutely no incentive for me to use Avanti at the moment. My daughter has started a new job in London. her car is still here in Wirral while she sorts out a parking permit. My wife and I were planning to drive her car to London and get the train back to Liverpool on 16th August. Mortified to find that there are no Advance tickets available at any time that day. Standard single is £128.00 each. We need to renew our two Together Railcard so the even if we do that the cost would be £90 x 2 + £30 = £210 plus Merseyrail. The solution is to take two cars and drive home which is not environmentally friendly at all. A quick check shows that LNER are offering Advance tickets that day on their routes so it can't just be because of reduced capacity. We could book Advance West Midlands trains to Liverpool but don't fancy 3 hours+ on a train especially during the current situation.

This is because Avanti have significantly shortened the amount of time in advance that tickets can be booked. If you try to book a few days beforehand Advances may well be available for Avanti.

Yep, advances are typically on sale a week or so out at the moment due to the amended timetables causing all further amendments for weekend engineering having to be re-amended.

 

[Birkonian]

Strangely, much cheaper off peak singles have appeared since I looked earlier today.

 

[PeterC]

Given how confusing and awkward many ticket vending machines are, that's no great surprise. I think I've got the Northern ones sussed now, but even so if there's no queue in the ticket office will always use that in preference as it's quicker!

I thought the point was that ticket machines had to be "fair" and give the passenger every possible option. There is a balance that has to be struck:
Simple = edge cases that are deemed "unfair"
Fair = confusing causing demands for simplification

 

[DB]

I thought the point was that ticket machines had to be "fair" and give the passenger every possible option. There is a balance that has to be struck:
Simple = edge cases that are deemed "unfair"
Fair = confusing causing demands for simplification

It's the number of options you have to go through just to tell them 'I want a day return / open return from A to B'. The Northern ones are particularly bad, even by ticket machine standards.

 

[al78]

It also doesn't help that pretty much nothing is compatible with anything else! If there was some standardisation of couplers (incouding heights and positions of electrical boxes) and a standardised set of communication protocols between units this would be easier.

Interesting, I hadn't appreciated that (who would if they don't work in the indutry?). Sounds a bit like building your own PC, it is not that difficult but you have to be careful with your component selection to ensure everything is compatible.

 

[DB]

Interesting, I hadn't appreciated that (who would if they don't work in the indutry?). Sounds a bit like building your own PC, it is not that difficult but you have to be careful with your component selection to ensure everything is compatible.

I don't work in the industry, but it's stuff I've got to know over the years!

BR were actually well on the way with this - all of the second-generation DMUs use BSI couplers and nearly every combination can multi-work quite happily between classes. The second-generation EMUs used Tightlock couplers, and could similarly work together.

Then when it was all split up into separate operators there was no rule stating that compatibility was required (which there should have been). 170s and 172s have BSI couplers so can work with second-generation BR classes, but apart from that each manufacturer did their own thing (they all used Dellner couplers, but with no consistency as to whether the control box was above or below, and no standard control protocol. A standard height did evolve, but some classes such as 22x and 390 are different. The control protocol sometimes changed between generations from the same manufacturer so even if the heights are the same and the units can physically couple, they often cannot work in multi so any coupling of them is for rescue purposs only - I believe this is the case with 222s, for example, which cannot work with 220s or 221s.

With locos BR weren't particularly consistent - the first generation of diesels mostly used blue star (with a few exceptions), but after that a number were in-class only. with electrics they eventualy standardised on TDM, as fitted from new to 89/90/91, and retro-fitted to 86 and 87. With privatisation it worked better, largely because of the dominance of GM in new locos at the time, hence the US standard AAR multi-working system is found on classes 59/66/67 and later 70 (and fitted to all flavours of 73/9 during rebuild). The 68s and 88s use a European system and can work with each other but nothing else in the UK. The 'Chiltern' 68s have been fitted with what I understand is a cut-down version of AAR additionally, which allows them to be controlled from an AAR-fitted DVT, but not to work in multi with other AAR locos.

 

[mikey9]

£1.65 each way for a 14 mile - 22 minute journey to work compares well with owning another car just to commute - especially when the scenery is the Highlands of Scotland as a backdrop.
Usually with a choice of tables of 4 just for me...

Nothing - other than cycling in as the sun rises, competes really.