What is a train?

[Mat17]

Some buses go around displaying "Choo Choo, I'm a Train" text on the destination blind. If that's how they wish to identify then who are we to judge?

When the Supertram network was partially closed for engineering works and bustituted, the replacement buses said 'tram' on the front and I thought, that's rather amusing.

I was trying to envision a way they could get the tram to say 'bus' on the front... But how often is a bus taken off and a replacement tram service provided?

 

[Grumpy Git]

I find that people who call the railway station the "train station" also have a tendency to call the sheet of glass in the front of a car the "window screen". I'm not sure why, as there is no obvious correlation (and the latter is plainly incorrect), but there you go!

I also know of at least one person who thought the rail replacement bus was a bus that ran on the rails.

 

[noddingdonkey]

To me the key elements are (I have taken the first post to mention something, so thanks and apologies to anyone who also gave the same answer):




You start with what the children know and move on from there.

This then takes you onto the key difference between road vehicles and trains

you can then move onto the main types of providing power, and I must remember to add in gravity, ropes and horses to my list of power sources.

Are you considering trams (Metrolink, Supertram etc) as a subset of "train" or do you need to add something about the tracks (usually) being segregated from road traffic?

 

[HST274]

What isn't a train (Deep philosophical question)?

 

[Annetts key]

Are you considering trams (Metrolink, Supertram etc) as a subset of "train" or do you need to add something about the tracks (usually) being segregated from road traffic?

Except that in some places train tracks (for heavy rail) ran down the middle of roads…

 

[Ken H]

Are you considering trams (Metrolink, Supertram etc) as a subset of "train" or do you need to add something about the tracks (usually) being segregated from road traffic?

metrolink runs on old rail lines away from roads. I think the bury line has signals*. Does it become a train once its past Victoria tram stop?

Edit
* Just watched a drivers eye view on you tube. deffo got signals.
Link to drivers eye video of Bury - Heaton park

 

[gage75]

A MU is a powered unit that can operate in multiple, isn't it? So a 153 is, but an HST isn't?

Wasn’t the HST classed as a MU as Cls 253 / 254??

 

[noddingdonkey]

Except that in some places train tracks (for heavy rail) ran down the middle of roads…

I thought I had addressed this with the "(usually)"

 

[Annetts key]

Wasn’t the HST classed as a MU as Cls 253 / 254??

HSTs were classed as multiple units.
GWR now have the 2+4 HST sets as 255 Castle class (see the name plates) but still have the power cars numbered as class 43s!

But back in the 1980s various classes of DMUs were hauled by (normally) a class 47 locomotive due to the DMUs suffering engine problems. This often happened all day. So what would this configuration be classed as?

What are top and tailed trains (loco at both ends) classed as? Loco and carriages/wagons or a multiple unit train?

And what do you call two or more engineering machines (e.g, tampers) coupled together and running on a main line, DMUs?

 

[Roast Veg]

Surely it would just be a case of. Car has tires and steering wheel, drives on road. Train has metal wheels, no steering wheel, goes on track.

What about the rubber tyred stock of the Paris Metro? Or a variety of airport shuttle "trains"?

 

[etr221]

As I put it earlier

I think the 'train' is one of those terms that - while we all sort of know what it means - is used in several subtly different ways (for the London Underground I identified three distinct meanings) that can be difficult to define precisely.

... what we perhaps need in this forum is a 'dead horses' section, whence it can be banished for infinite indecision.

In the meantime, looking elsewhere I was pointed at the equally uncertain issue of what is soup

 

[61653 HTAFC]

HSTs were classed as multiple units.
GWR now have the 2+4 HST sets as 255 Castle class (see the name plates) but still have the power cars numbered as class 43s!

But back in the 1980s various classes of DMUs were hauled by (normally) a class 47 locomotive due to the DMUs suffering engine problems. This often happened all day. So what would this configuration be classed as?

What are top and tailed trains (loco at both ends) classed as? Loco and carriages/wagons or a multiple unit train?

And what do you call two or more engineering machines (e.g, tampers) coupled together and running on a main line, DMUs?

From new, the power cars were always numbered as 43xxx, complete with a W prefix for Western region sets and an E on the East Coast ones.

What about the rubber tyred stock of the Paris Metro?

Those things are an abomination which only exist because the French Government wanted to prop up Michelin!

 

[al78]

All you need is a basic answer - Trains are like buses but on a track to take people to places quickly. Don't need anything more than that for young kids...

That depends on which places you are trying to get to and from.

 

[Darren Jones]

When talking to school children (up to the age of 11) about railways there are two questions that come up time and time again:

how old is it?

what is a train?

I must admit that having started to search the internet for an answer to the second question I am even more confused. I thought I had an answer, but I am not so sure now.

Remembering the age group(s) I am talking about - how would you answer this question? You may like to give different questions for the three school groups: Early Years (under 5), KS1 (5-7) & KS2 (8-11)

do kids these days not play with trains anymore?

 

[Steve Harris]

I suppose in it's basic form a train is the collection of vehicles coupled together. It operates to a schedule, with individual parts of that schedule being known as a service. However common usage blurs this line a bit.

As mentioned, the pedantry of whether a light loco counts as a train will not be relevant to 11 years and under.

I think your kinda on the right lines..
I would of said a train is one or more carriages/trucks that carry people/goods between 2 places on a railway line !

Always best to KISS (Keep it simple stupid) the above of course can be expanded on if needs be. For example trains can only go where the railway line goes and can't swerve out of the way !

Note: Tracks can be substituted for railway line.

 

[Grumpy Git]

A 'camel train' doesn't need any rails.

 

[Steve Harris]

A 'camel train' doesn't need any rails.

Sounds like your've got the hump with the terminology used.

 

[CrilMitic]

I believe that in our time, everyone learns everything through the Internet, so children and especially adults can rarely have a question: what is a train?

 

[Steve Harris]

I believe that in our time, everyone learns everything through the Internet

Which is not necessarily a brilliant thing. For instance, Wikipedia is a wonderful resource but most of the time its only approx 75% accurate IMO (as it either generalises far to much or contains factual errors.
Yes the internet is a good thing, but you can't take everything you read on it to literally (this forum (at times) proves that point).

 

[Rescars]

The first book I had about trains was "Thomas the Tank Engine". The second book I had was "Toby the Tram Engine". I have been confused about these definitions for almost a lifetime!

 

[Mat17]

So what about class 399? A tram-train...

 

[Calthrop]

The first book I had about trains was "Thomas the Tank Engine". The second book I had was "Toby the Tram Engine". I have been confused about these definitions for almost a lifetime!

If only the Rev. Awdry had not happened to have a parish on the Wisbech & Upwell Tramway, in the last years of steam on that line ! That bloke has a lot to answer for, one way and another...

 

[SouthStand]

Can remember once the annoyed guard shouting for everyone to move down the train. It was one of those single unit Lincoln to Peterborough jobs, and the last service of the day at 16:00 or something. He wasn't too impressed when I pointed out if this actually was a train we wouldn't all be packed in like sardines

 

[DerekC]

I will ask my six year old grandson and report back!

 

[plugwash]

metrolink runs on old rail lines away from roads. I think the bury line has signals*. Does it become a train once its past Victoria tram stop?

Edit
* Just watched a drivers eye view on you tube. deffo got signals.
Link to drivers eye video of Bury - Heaton park

AIUI metrolink got rid of the rail-style block signals on all the lines they control*, finding that driving the trams on visual separation was more efficient. I believe they still have tram-style signals to protect conflicting moves at junctions.

* There is a small area round altrincham where the line is controlled by network rail and still has rail-style signalling.

 

[Steve Harris]

So what about class 399? A tram-train...

That's clearly not KISS !

 

[mirodo]

What isn't a train (Deep philosophical question)?

 

[Mat17]

Ah class 101 the epitome of a train.

 

[Annetts key]

 

[40129]

Don't have it to hand as it's still at my parents house so can only go from memory, but IIRC "Clear Ahead" (the second of the three "God's Wonderful Railway" childrens books contains a paragraph or two about the the definition of a train according to the GWR.

The scene is in the Station Masters office at Highley station and the Station Master (Mr Jellicoe) is explaining to the Lad Porter (George Grant) what a train is and isn't. One thing that Mr Jellicoe was particular;y clear on was that "An engine itself is not a train."

Must try and dig out those books next time I visit