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What is each TOC's over-served service

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gnolife

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This is sort of the opposite of the "what is each TOC's weak relation" thread
For each TOC, what would you say is the biggest carrier of fresh air

I'd say that for Northern (again, based on the fact that I'm not too familiar with the east side), would be the Romiley lines (Man Picc - Rose Hill, Marple or New Mills Cent). This line gets a south-bound express that carries roughly 0 in the way of passengers. The return working of this skips out what I feel to be the 'key stations' at Brinnington and Reddish North, but calling at the sheds (sorry to anyone who uses these) of Ryder Brow and Belle Vue. This seems to me to be a clear waste of stock that could be used to supplement much busier lines such as the Victoria to Blackpool.

For EMT, this would be the Corby-London St Pancreas as it usually carries nothing but air after Kettering

For Virgin, Manchester to Euston via Stoke-on-Trent doesnt warrant 2tph. I personally think that 1 tph on this route, calling Stockport, Macc, Stoke, MKC and Euston would be better than having the current trains which skip out either Macc or MKC. Also, in a related-but-not-relevant thing, I feel that XC should put in an additional call at Macc on their Bristol - Manchester trains, to give a straight 3 tph fast to Macc and Stoke.

And for the last one that I can think of, TPX's worst offender would be having the Newcastle, Middlesbrough and Cleethorpes trains terminate at Manchester Airport rather than at Manchester Piccadilly. (Another piece of off-topic) I personally would have the Cleethorpes continue to Liverpool Lime Street, in the place of the current Scarborough-Liverpool, and have the Scarborough terminate at Manchester Piccadilly. This means that the Scarborough wouldn't cut right across the throat of the station at Piccadilly, meaning potentially more services can run south out of the station.
 
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Lampshade

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Does Merseyrail really need 4tph to Ormskirk?

Rose Hill doesn't need an express calling only at Romiley either.

Not a service but Chorley must be one of the most over-served stations.
 

MidnightFlyer

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And for the last one that I can think of, TPX's worst offender would be having the Newcastle, Middlesbrough and Cleethorpes trains terminate at Manchester Airport rather than at Manchester Piccadilly.

Run gnolife! How dare you say that on here? You best sleep with one eye open tonight!

I do agree though ;), shame many others don't.

I can't argue with what you said for the rest either, but off-peak EBW Virgin services can be deserted too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Not a service but Chorley must be one of the most over-served stations.

Indeed, stopping Scottish services there amazes me!
 
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gnolife

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Run gnolife! How dare you say that on here? You best sleep with one eye open tonight!

I do agree though ;), shame many others don't.

I can't argue with what you said for the rest either, but off-peak EBW Virgin services can be deserted too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Indeed, stopping Scottish services there amazes me!

I know, and thats my local line that I'm complaining about being overserved, I must be crackers!
 

causton

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For FCC, Bayford station ;) 3tph to London M-F (2tph north to Hertford + 1tph to Letchworth), whereas Welwyn North gets 2tph. Bearing in mind in 2008/09 Welwyn North got almost 500,000 passengers, but Bayford got 35,000...
 

MidnightFlyer

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For FCC, Bayford station ;) 3tph to London M-F (2tph north to Hertford + 1tph to Letchworth), whereas Welwyn North gets 2tph. Bearing in mind in 2008/09 Welwyn North got almost 500,000 passengers, but Bayford got 35,000...

I would say Brookmans Park doesn't warrant 6tph ;) (and maybe Welham Green too).

I think it's more down to the Hertford Loop being a 'Metro' type service, and Welwyn North being on one of the most aggravating bottlenecks in the country (as well as the mix of IC, semi-fast and stoppers too).
 

scotsman

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Don't diss the Man Airport services! Do you know how many Scottish folk take the train to Manchester Airport because the train goes straight there?! Even if they knew it was one change, they might be tempted, but they honestly never knew until TPE started promoting the route!
 

142094

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The very early morning Newcastle - Chathill train. I was the only person on this service. Think it picked up one person at Chathill on the way back.

Of course this is mainly due to the poor service that the Northern stations north of Morpeth (not counting Alnmouth) have.

Plus there is the conundrum:

Poor service=low passenger numbers

or

Low passenger numbers=poor service?
 

All Line Rover

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During much of the day, Virgin only needs 2tph between Manchester and Euston. 1 via Crewe (calling at Stockport, Wilmslow and Crewe), and 1 via Stoke (calling at Stockport, Macclesfield, Stoke and Milton Keynes).

The same applies to Birmingham to Euston - it also needs only 2tph. 1 from Wolverhampton (calling at Sandwell & Dudley, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International, Coventry and Watford Junction), and 1 from Birmingham (calling at Birmingham International, Coventry, Rugby and Milton Keynes). I've always been of the opinion that the EBW route has too many intermediate stops, but that's the subject of another thread!

Both routes only require 3tph towards London between 06:00am and 10:00am, and in both directions between 16:00pm and 20:00pm (even that's probably a bit generous). During the rest of the day, the Pendolino's are simply carting around fresh air! Unfortunately, the DfT are never going to let this idea happen... :(
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Yes, but most of them go on to other places.

And many of them are packed to the rafters...
 

craigwilson

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has anyone mentioned Southeastern Hispeed yet?

I'd narrow that to the Faversham-Gravesend-St Pancras route.

The Margate-St Pancras trains are always well-patronised. In my experience, you'd better be on fast at Canterbury West if you want a seat!

As I generally want to go to Euston to go to destinations north of London, the HS1 route is super-convenient for me.

Those who have the impression that the 395s carrry around air must have been travelling on Faversham trains. The Margate route is successful, as you get a big time saving, and especially so from Canterbury and Ashford, but there isn't much time saving at all with the Faversham route, hence the lower numbers.
 

Mutant Lemming

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I'd narrow that to the Faversham-Gravesend-St Pancras route.

The Margate-St Pancras trains are always well-patronised. In my experience, you'd better be on fast at Canterbury West if you want a seat!

I tend to use the HS route mainly at weekends and tend to get not just a seat but a carriage to myself both directions regardless of whether I am heading to the Medway towns or out Ashford way.
 

Ivo

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I don't want to say this, for about 1,935 reasons (exaggeration, but you get the point), but Cardiff Bay is a pretty obvious one... :(

Elsewhere, I would suggest the Hounslow loop, Windsor & Eton Central and Greenford. Notice anything about these? Like, how local they are to one-another?
 

anthony263

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I don't want to say this, for about 1,935 reasons (exaggeration, but you get the point), but Cardiff Bay is a pretty obvious one... :(

Elsewhere, I would suggest the Hounslow loop, Windsor & Eton Central and Greenford. Notice anything about these? Like, how local they are to one-another?

I think the current service level on the slough - Windsor & eton central route is just right always carrys a good load. The greenford line on the other hand is quite til you get to west ealing then it picks up a bit. There is some minor local traffic on the branch but not much.
 

Mojo

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Elsewhere, I would suggest the Hounslow loop, Windsor & Eton Central and Greenford. Notice anything about these? Like, how local they are to one-another?
Yet in the other thread it was mentioned that Greenford could possibly pass as FGW's worst! I personally don't see what's so over-served about it. It's only halfhourly with the last train before 10pm and it doesn't run Sundays!
 

Ivo

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I honestly would suggest Greenford as FGW's biggest overkill route. There is very little demand for the intermediate stations (I learned earlier today that Castle Bar Park has a small amount of peak staffing; my reaction was, quite simply, "Why?"), and Greenford itself is covered by LUL anyway. And come Crossrail this situation will become far worse, when it is left behind as the GWML advances greatly...

I have been on a few Greenford services before now and have never seen more than about 20 people on them. Compare that with the 12(?)-an-hour 8-car service on the Central line; which do you think people would choose? And similarly, people can just use a bus if they really need the Greenford-Ealing link...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Different area now; is there any evidence to suggest that improving the frequency to Southminster was actually worthwhile? Notwithstanding pathing issues west of Shenfield, wouldn't improving Southend Vic to 15 have been a better option?
 

tbtc

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I'd say that for Northern (again, based on the fact that I'm not too familiar with the east side), would be the Romiley lines (Man Picc - Rose Hill, Marple or New Mills Cent). This line gets a south-bound express that carries roughly 0 in the way of passengers. The return working of this skips out what I feel to be the 'key stations' at Brinnington and Reddish North, but calling at the sheds (sorry to anyone who uses these) of Ryder Brow and Belle Vue. This seems to me to be a clear waste of stock that could be used to supplement much busier lines such as the Victoria to Blackpool

Its a real mess of service.

With a blank sheet of paper you could have

Manchester Piccadilly - Guide Bridge - Rose Hill Marple (half hourly)
Manchester Piccadilly - Reddish North - Marple (half hourly, extending to Sheffield bi-hourly)

What we have is a complete carcrash of a timetable, compared to the simplicity of the half hourly Glossop service (which uses the same platforms at Piccadilly).

Presumably the gaps needed for TPE services is the reason, in which case I hope that the Romiley services become more "normal" after TPE moves to Victoria

As for TPE, the provision to Manchester Airport is well over the top (other than when it stops in southern Manchester at rush hour) - I've been on plenty packed Sheffield - Manchester services which carry under a dozen beyond Piccadilly. Handy for the few who go to the Airport, but a waste of resources in the Bigger Picture. But then every single town/village needs a direct service to the Airport (apparently)...
 

Squaddie

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ATW Cardiff Central - Pontypridd 6 tph plus proposals for more.
Others on this forum have noted how heavily-loaded the Valley lines are, and no fewer than three of the Valleys routes pass through Pontypridd.

How would you propose running adequate services from Cardiff to Merthyr, Aberdare and Treherbert while simultaneously reducing the service between Cardiff and Pontypridd?
 

12CSVT

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FCC - all stations services which run north of St. Albans.

Could never see the point when there are already 4 Bedford - Brighton per hour which serve Luton to St. Albans.
 
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