What is London Underground?

[BanburyBlue]

I've just been on a P&O cruise and took part in many quizzes while on board.

Now, on one quiz the question asked was... "What is the name of the latest London Underground line". Easy I thought, Jubilee Line - obvious. The answer came back as the Elizabeth Line. Despite my protestations that Crossrail was not London Underground, the quiz master refused to accept my answer as correct.

So, was I right to spend the evening sulking in my cabin at the injustice of it all, or has the world moved on and do we now consider Crossrail and DLR as part of the London Underground?

Looking at the new Tube maps, it doesn't really clarify?

Thanks.

 

[trainmania100]

I have heard that it is part of the London underground
They have made quite a few tunnels, a lot of the tube stock does go above ground too such as the Ealing Broadway section. I had only just learnt that it was.

They say you learn something new every day

 

[ValleyLines142]

To be fair, I think it can include any line that's on there, including DLR, Overground and Crossrail. The Emirates Airline could also be classed as a line too as that is on the latest addition.

 

[district]

You're definitely right."London Underground" can only be used to describe services run by "London Underground Ltd." which does not include the DLR, Overground, TfL Rail, Crossrail, Trams, Emirates Airline or any other transport service.

 

[me123]

... I tried to warn people that "Elizabeth Line" would cause confusion...

It's clearly not an LU line. It will be part of TfL, but it's not a part of London Underground. Jubilee line is correct (AFAIK).

Besides, it's not in operation, so I'd argue that it's definitely not a valid answer to that question! The latest lines to appear on the map would be the local services out of Liverpool Street IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong). But it's a quiz on a P&O Cruise, so I'm not going to get my knickers in a twist.

 

[Ianno87]

The Jubilee line has been operating since the 1970s. Wouldn't Hammermith & City or the East London Line qualify, if the question was around the last new line name to be introduced?

Anyway, I would agree that Crossrail does not form part of London Underground.

 

[me123]

The Jubilee line has been operating since the 1970s. Wouldn't Hammermith & City or the East London Line qualify, if the question was around the last new line name to be introduced?

Wouldn't it then be Waterloo & City (incorporated into the tube network in 1994)?

I think we've managed to get ourselves into quite the minefield here

 

[Clip]

At hte end of the day the people who use it will call it the tube just like they do for the rest of the system

 

[Rup]

I think that the Elizabeth Line was the obvious layman's answer. One can argue about whether it was technically correct or not, but this was a cruise ship quiz not a train specialists' quiz!

I do think the quiz master should have allowed your answer though!

And no, it didn't justify a sulk

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

I wouldn't have accepted the currently non-existent Elizabeth Line.
And if it's going off the map, the latest addition is a tramline.

 

[kwrail]

You can take the moral high ground as you were right. The video link below might help.
Londonist videos are normally very good and Geoff Marshall is spot on here. It shouldn't even be called Elizabeth line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaBBg6Cyv9Q

 

[Camden]

I've just been on a P&O cruise and took part in many quizzes while on board.

Now, on one quiz the question asked was... "What is the name of the latest London Underground line". Easy I thought, Jubilee Line - obvious. The answer came back as the Elizabeth Line. Despite my protestations that Crossrail was not London Underground, the quiz master refused to accept my answer as correct.

So, was I right to spend the evening sulking in my cabin at the injustice of it all, or has the world moved on and do we now consider Crossrail and DLR as part of the London Underground?

Looking at the new Tube maps, it doesn't really clarify?

Thanks.

They are incorrect even by their own reckoning, because Crossrail is not yet open.

If they're calling Crossrail LU then that brings in the other overground lines too. Using their terms of reference, the latest LU line would be the equally catchy "TFL Rail" line.

I would telegraph the Captain my disapproval.

 

[adrock1976]

The question

"What is the name of the latest London Underground line"?

can be interpreted in a variety of ways here, especially in the context of the word "latest".

Is latest meant to mean in the most recent context? If so, I would interpret the answer being the Jubilee Line Extension (1999).

Is latest meant to mean the last London Underground line to have been constructed in its entirety, with no further extensions? If so, I would interpret the answer being the Victoria Line (1968).

Is latest meant to mean the last named line or route of London Underground? If so, I would interpret the answer being Hammersmith & City Line (1990 - was part of the Metropolitan).

Is latest meant to mean including lines or routes transferred to London Underground? If so, the answer would be Waterloo & City (1994).

Is latest meant to mean routes added to the London Underground map? If so, the answer is both TfL Rail (the former Great Eastern Railway local all stations services between Liverpool Street and Shenfield), and London Overground (Liverpool Street to Enfield Town and Cheshunt via Seven Sisters) (2015).

All in all, it depends on how the person who set the question interprets which answer is correct. Given the various options above, I believe that there is no correct answer, and that perhaps similar questions could be phrased differently?

 

[BanburyBlue]

thanks all for all your replies.

I think I can claim a moral victory.

I think it was just a very badly worded question. If the question was "What is the name of the latest line to go under London" I would have said Crossrail/Elizabeth line straight away.

Interesting You Tube video about the name of Crossrail. I notice on the latest TfL map it's called TfL Rail.

 

[Greenback]

I was on a P&O cruise once and fell out with the quizmaster over a badly worded question. Naturally, I had the right answer, not them.

I felt my only recourse was to sulk in the bar with twelve large Stella's, and to write in the strongest possible terms to head office when I got home. I did not receive a reply and I have not sailed with them since.

Sadly there was no such thing as Twitter in those days.

Sorry to go off topic. You could let it ruin your life, as I did it, or you could simply rest assured that your knowledge is vastly superior and be very smug about that!

 

[cornishjohn]

Is latest meant to mean the last named line or route of London Underground? If so, I would interpret the answer being Hammersmith & City Line (1990 - was part of the Metropolitan).

Even this kind of claim is awkward. My copy of "The Metropolitan Line - A Brief History" (pub. 1972) refers to Hammersmith and City Services. It also says the "Hammersmith and City Railway" was incorporated in 1861! A lot hinges on whether the word "Line" is part of the name, but clearly the "route" was named as such well before 1990.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

. It shouldn't even be called Elizabeth line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaBBg6Cyv9Q

Even Liney McLineface would be preferable

 

[Wolfie]

The Jubilee line has been operating since the 1970s. Wouldn't Hammermith & City or the East London Line qualify, if the question was around the last new line name to be introduced?

Anyway, I would agree that Crossrail does not form part of London Underground.

My view, quite simply, is that if TfL and London Underground don't regard something as part of the Underground then it isn't! Hence I agree with your Crossrail/Elizabeth line comment.

The Waterloo and City line as cited by others isn't a bad call - it transferred to TfL/London Underground ownership in 1994.

While the Hammersmith & City as a stand-alone line is new in reality all it was is a rebranding in 1990 of what had been part of the Metropolitan line.

The East London line as an Underground line existed from 1933 to 2007, mostly as part of the Metropolitan line, only becoming a line in it's own right in the 1980s and becoming orange on the map in 1990. It reopened in revamped format as part of London Overground in 2010.

 

[Rup]

It's pretty clear to me that the quiz master didn't say:
"What is the name of the latest London Underground line?"

He said:
"What is the name of the latest London underground line?"

So in the generic sense of being underground and being in London, the Elizabeth Line is correct

 

[Busaholic]

I was on a P&O cruise once and fell out with the quizmaster over a badly worded question. Naturally, I had the right answer, not them.

I felt my only recourse was to sulk in the bar with twelve large Stella's, and to write in the strongest possible terms to head office when I got home. I did not receive a reply and I have not sailed with them since.

Sadly there was no such thing as Twitter in those days.

Sorry to go off topic. You could let it ruin your life, as I did it, or you could simply rest assured that your knowledge is vastly superior and be very smug about that!

I spent a year as a 'reserve' on a pub quiz team, which in effect meant almost every week, and I fell out with a quizmaster over the question 'what was the Beatles' first no. 1 hit?' to which I replied something like 'no doubt the answer you have there is 'Please Please Me' but if you take the New Musical Express chart which was the most well-regarded at the time it only reached no. 2, so according to their chart it would be 'She Loves You' - my answer was disqualified, probably on grounds of pomposity

 

[yorkie]

At best, the question is ambiguous.

But for sure, you were correct to say the answer should not be The Elizabeth Line (more commonly and sensibly known as Crossrail)

 

[Harbornite]

Did you mention that it serves Reading, an area outside of London? Either way, you were right.

 

[Wolfie]

Did you mention that it serves Reading, an area outside of London? Either way, you were right.

Pedant alert!

Well the Metropolitan line (definitely and unequivocally part of London Underground) serves Watford, an area outside London...
The Central line (definitely and unequivocally part of London Underground) serves Epping, an area outside London...

 

[Rup]

Pedant alert!

Well the Metropolitan line (definitely and unequivocally part of London Underground) serves Watford, an area outside London...
The Central line (definitely and unequivocally part of London Underground) serves Epping, an area outside London...

I knew Elizabeth line was the right answer all along

I asked my misses the original quiz question last night, and she immediately replied the Elizabeth line. And as anyone married knows, the misses is always right

 

[Deepgreen]

Elizabeth line is incorrect on at least two counts - when it opens it will be part of TfL, not LU, and, of course, it does not yet exist as an operational railway, so cannot be referred to as "the latest", which has the inescapable implication of being operational. Otherwise, the "latest" could include the Northern line extension to Battersea, which is due to open after Crossrail/Elizabeth.

 

[Busaholic]

Did you mention that it serves Reading, an area outside of London? Either way, you were right.

Shenfield is outside London too.

 

[mark-h]

They are incorrect even by their own reckoning, because Crossrail is not yet open.

By their logic HS2 is the latest rail line in the UK (if you exclude the as of yet unplanned HS7).

 

[Harbornite]

Pedant alert!

Well the Metropolitan line (definitely and unequivocally part of London Underground) serves Watford, an area outside London...
The Central line (definitely and unequivocally part of London Underground) serves Epping, an area outside London...

Sugar, didn't think of that! However, Crossrail starts outside London at both ends (as mentioned elsewhere on 'ere) and will be run by TFL, not LU!

 

[D365]

However, Crossrail starts outside London at both ends (as mentioned elsewhere on 'ere)

Which both ends?

 

[Wolfie]

Which both ends?

Not the Abbey Wood bit I assume...

PS As an alumnus of Brum Uni I really had to tease Harbornite, it just had to be done....