What is so bad about a Pacer?

[ValleyLines142]

I have to say, Arriva's Pacers are in a LOT better condition than Northern's Pacers. But they have absolutely no strength whatsoever. Look what happened to 142008 when it collided with 87027 at Winsford in 1999. It was as if 87027 literally ate 142008 like it was a sweet in a candy shop!

Also, the very complex network of tracks to the west of Cardiff, near Canton depot, is not fun when you're travelling on a City Line service, crossing over from platform 7 to the tracks winding around the side of the depot!!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Ah, the memories of discovering the Skippers / Slippers on the Exmouth and Barnstaple branches, back in '86. 6'6" frame wedged into the bench seats. Shouting to hear one another over the engine strain and the flange squeal. The 'al fresco' effect of cold wind through the door gaps. Managing to reach Central from St David's at the second attempt. And, all in the name of progress...

 

[Whistler40145]

IMHO Pacers are an acquired taste, ride can be rough, but when they pickup speed, then they're ok.

Once endured a Pacer in the middle of winter working the 03:xx Blackpool North to Manchester Airport, it was absolutely freezing, in fact it was warmer outside the train!

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

IMHO Pacers are an acquired taste, ride can be rough, but when they pickup speed, then they're ok.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

With Blackpool Pleasure Beach station so near at hand that has seen the passage of Class 142 Pacers in its time, one could say the same for the cars on the wooden-framed Grand National roller coaster that is also of a "certain vintage".

Why does my mind always conjure up an immediate similarity when the terms "Blackpool Pleasure Beach" and "Class 142 Pacers" are mentioned in the same posting.....

 

[pemma]

With Blackpool Pleasure Beach station so near at hand that has seen the passage of Class 142 Pacers in its time, one could say the same for the cars on the wooden-framed Grand National roller coaster that is also of a "certain vintage".

Why does my mind always conjure up an immediate similarity when the terms "Blackpool Pleasure Beach" and "Class 142 Pacers" are mentioned in the same posting.....

I suggested before painting some Pacers in a Donkey livery and naming them as 'Nodding Donkeys' and pretending they are one of the Pleasure Beach rides.

 

[fireftrm]

I really don't know, the word pleasure would be an oxymoron for any sentence including a description of a Pacer, unless it had the adjective masochistic attached.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

But they have absolutely no strength whatsoever. Look what happened to 142008 when it collided with 87027 at Winsford in 1999. It was as if 87027 literally ate 142008 like it was a sweet in a candy shop!

I hope this link works:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/2831/image1vtb.jpg

It shows that all the passenger saloon area remained intact. The rear cab was destroyed, but the passenger area remained intact.

The bodyshell detached from the underframe because that is what it was designed to do in the event of such an accident - as built, Pacer bodies were secured to the underframe by four "shear bolts".

After Winsford, an additional fixing points which do not shear were installed on the fleet with the aim of preventing bodyshell detachment; if a similar impact occured today the consequences would as a result be considerably worse because the impact would not now push the bodyshell out of the way..

 

[pemma]

It shows that all the passenger saloon area remained intact. The rear cab was destroyed, but the passenger area remained intact.

So if it had been in passenger service and the guard was in the rear cab he would have almost certainly lost his life.

The passenger area remained intact doesn't mean there wouldn't have been passenger fatalities if the train had been loaded with passengers. Any standing persons in the rear cab would have been particularly vulnerable.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

On page 32 of the July edition of "Modern Railways", there is a half-page image of the original BRE-Leyland Railbus.

Was it Leyland that used to go out on strike nearly every week in the 1970's ?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So if it had been in passenger service and the guard was in the rear cab he would have almost certainly lost his life.

The passenger area remained intact doesn't mean there wouldn't have been passenger fatalities if the train had been loaded with passengers. Any standing persons in the rear cab would have been particularly vulnerable.

That is true on both points.

One would hope, though, that had the guard been in the rear cab he / she would have noticed the approaching train in time to exit to cab and shout a "hold tight" warning to the passengers.

My point was that the Pacer stood up to the impact better than most would have expected it to.

 

[edwin_m]

I hope this link works:
After Winsford, an additional fixing points which do not shear were installed on the fleet with the aim of preventing bodyshell detachment; if a similar impact occured today the consequences would as a result be considerably worse because the impact would not now push the bodyshell out of the way..

According to Ian Walmsley in last month's Modern Railways, any passenger in the train at Winsford would have suffered injury because of the sudden acceleration of the bodyshell as it split from the chassis (presumbly whiplash-type injuries). The modification still allows the two to separate but provides some damping so that the acceleration is less.

 

[tbtc]

So if it had been in passenger service and the guard was in the rear cab he would have almost certainly lost his life.

The passenger area remained intact doesn't mean there wouldn't have been passenger fatalities if the train had been loaded with passengers. Any standing persons in the rear cab would have been particularly vulnerable.

Anyone standing in the rear cab of a DMU when a 100mph train shunts into it is going to be vulnerable, whether Pacer, Sprinter or 172!

 

[ryan125hst]

I hope this link works:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/2831/image1vtb.jpg

It shows that all the passenger saloon area remained intact. The rear cab was destroyed, but the passenger area remained intact.

The bodyshell detached from the underframe because that is what it was designed to do in the event of such an accident - as built, Pacer bodies were secured to the underframe by four "shear bolts".

After Winsford, an additional fixing points which do not shear were installed on the fleet with the aim of preventing bodyshell detachment; if a similar impact occured today the consequences would as a result be considerably worse because the impact would not now push the bodyshell out of the way..

I can see some sort of separation and maybe a door before the saloon. Is that because it is where the parcels van is (well, was as it has been destroyed in the crash). I found out a few years ago that many DMU's (even 156's) had parcels vans in the 80's, but I've only found out that Pacers also had them recently. I was very surprised given there lack of seating capacity. People who complain about not getting a seat today would have even more to complain about if they weren't removed!

Any standing persons in the rear cab would have been particularly vulnerable.

I presume that you are referring to staff, as no passengers should be in the rear cab. That said, it does raise concerns about standing near to the doors on the front or rear of the train. In fact, I stood with my friend right by the doors just behind the drivers cab as far as Worksop. We then moved down to try and meet our other two friends, but ended up only getting as far as the vestibule and toilet area. We confused the guard as well: He asked for our tickets again (which confused me, given that he had only checked them half an hour previously!). After hesitating, I went to get the ticket out of my pocket when he finally realised that we were standing at the front before!

 

[swcovas]

I have been told that a Pacer was put on a north bound HOWL service some months ago. whatever the goods and bads about pacers I certainly wouldn't have fancied an almost 4 hour journey to Shrewsbury on one. It didn't do the full journey but turned round when crossing the southbound service at Llanwrtyd Wells. Not sure when and not seen any photos.....not even sure if it's fact!!

 

[pemma]

I presume that you are referring to staff, as no passengers should be in the rear cab.

I obviously meant carriage.

 

[Darren R]

With Blackpool Pleasure Beach station so near at hand that has seen the passage of Class 142 Pacers in its time, one could say the same for the cars on the wooden-framed Grand National roller coaster that is also of a "certain vintage".

I believe the Grand National ride at the Pleasure Beach is now no more. I think it could be a while before the 142s meet the same fate though!

Is that because it is where the parcels van is (well, was as it has been destroyed in the crash). I found out a few years ago that many DMU's (even 156's) had parcels vans in the 80's, but I've only found out that Pacers also had them recently. I was very surprised given there lack of seating capacity. People who complain about not getting a seat today would have even more to complain about if they weren't removed!

I think calling it a parcels van is over-egging the pudding somewhat: there was a small area that had a longitudinal tip-up seat where a bike could go!

 

[Haydn1971]

Related, I'm riding to work in a Northern Rail 321 this morning, built in 1990 according to Wikipedia - it still looks old, but the condition of the interior, the ride, general ambience, lack of black soot grime inside makes it feel in a different league - it also helps that there are four carriages rather than the typical two that you get on Pacer/Sprinter routes. Whilst I'm not entirely happy to be taking the cast off FCC stock, with a rebuild, things could look a lot better for northern lines... However, I'm half expecting a recover and lick of paint refresh instead :-/

 

[yorksrob]

I believe the Grand National ride at the Pleasure Beach is now no more. I think it could be a while before the 142s meet the same fate though!



I think calling it a parcels van is over-egging the pudding somewhat: there was a small area that had a longitudinal tip-up seat where a bike could go!

Indeed. Infact pretty much every pacer variation I‘ve ever been on still has this facility which is usually pretty well used for bycicles, prams, passengers avoiding Merseyrail style seating etc.

 

[ainsworth74]

Whilst I'm not entirely happy to be taking the cast off FCC stock

Good job you're not then isn't it The 321/9s which Northern operate were built for Regional Railways to operate the newly electrified Doncaster - Leeds services.

 

[pemma]

Good job you're not then isn't it The 321/9s which Northern operate were built for Regional Railways to operate the newly electrified Doncaster - Leeds services.

I think the cast off FCC stock being referred to is the 319s given that Haydn1971 seems to be talking about it in future tense rather than past tense.

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Twitter is full of upset passgengers again today on Northern Rail, according to them when they buy their tickets one of the conditions of travel on the cattle trucks is that Northern Rail do NOT to have the heating on full blast so that they turn into toast

 

[evoluzione]

Twitter is full of upset passgengers again today on Northern Rail, according to them when they buy their tickets one of the conditions of travel on the cattle trucks is that Northern Rail do NOT to have the heating on full blast so that they turn into toast

Trust me it was just as hot in the cab, like being sat in a greenhouse up front on a 142, I was baking yesterday

 

[tbtc]

Twitter is full of upset passgengers again today on Northern Rail

Twitter is where people go to rant about things. I wouldn't take it as a serious bellweather.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

I believe the Grand National ride at the Pleasure Beach is now no more. I think it could be a while before the 142s meet the same fate though!

The Grand National (1935) twin track (Mobius loop) wooden racing roller coaster is operational! Still one of the best rides at BPB! http://rcdb.com/792.htm

A 142 ride to Pleasure Beach is much enjoyed by Pleasure Beach fans! Everyone squeezing into just 2 coaches for the journey back is not so much fun.

 

[Drsatan]

With regards to 142s, the only good thing about them is their large windows. Until December 2011, when FGW's seven 142s were transferred to Northern, their large windows made them ideal for services from Exmouth to Paignton.

A month ago, I traveled on the 1429 Preston to Ormskirk which I enjoyed, even though the journey was diagrammed for a 142. This was because the train wasn't busy, the large windows offered better views than in a 153 and the train's low overall speed meant that jointed track didn't affect the ride quality too badly. That is the sort of journey a Pacer would be suited for, which is why I believe when they're all withdrawn in 2019 a few heritage railways might acquire a few for off-peak services (suggestion in this month's Railway Magazine). What they're not suited for, as others have suggested, are peak hour services such as Manchester Victoria - Southport services.

 

[Haydn1971]

I think the cast off FCC stock being referred to is the 319s given that Haydn1971 seems to be talking about it in future tense rather than past tense.

It is indeed ! However, given the news about Thameslink today in NCE, I've got my fingers crossed for a fleet of Class 700 dropping into the north from 2018.

"Thameslink at risk, warns NAO
A “significant” risk exists that infrastructure being built under the £5.5bn Thameslink project will not be compatible with the trains procured for the upgraded line, the government’s spending watchdog has warned."

 

[yorksrob]

Twitter is full of upset passgengers again today on Northern Rail, according to them when they buy their tickets one of the conditions of travel on the cattle trucks is that Northern Rail do NOT to have the heating on full blast so that they turn into toast

I'm sure most of the 142‘s have a pretty standard room thermostat on them, so it shouldn‘t be too difficult for the guard to turn down.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"Thameslink at risk, warns NAO
A “significant” risk exists that infrastructure being built under the £5.5bn Thameslink project will not be compatible with the trains procured for the upgraded line, the government’s spending watchdog has warned."

Bit of a sticky wicket !

 

[Temple Meads]

I like Pacer's overall from an enthusiasts view, but there are caveats:

Anything over 30 minutes on a Pacer is far too long, I did the FGW 142 farewell tour, that was 8 hours of Pacer bashing - I'm still not sure my back has recovered

The odd bash as an enthusiast is fine, but if I was a commuter I'd find them unacceptable.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Of course it's all moot now, but I do wonder if, given how the Southern Region Slammers continued to give sterling service right up to withdrawal, a heavy refurbishment of the 1950s DMUs might have worked out better value than the introduction of pacers. Low-density DMUs such as 101s, 104s and 110s with CDL and new engines (at mid-1980s standards) would have presumably lasted up to around 2008 (as the 421s did) if not beyond. Round about now they'd be struggling I suppose- but replacing those with 172s or similar might have a better CBR than replacing the current fleet of pacers now would.

Of course that's just wishful thinking really, but it'd be nice to jump onto a 110 at Denby Dale rather than a Merseytravel 142...!

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Trust me it was just as hot in the cab, like being sat in a greenhouse up front on a 142, I was baking yesterday

Your poor thing, you have our sympathy

What other route do you have to drive using the hot cattle trucks ?

Twitter is where people go to rant about things. I wouldn't take it as a serious bellweather.

Twitter is a powerfull tool and should not be underestimate, take it your not on it tbtc ?

Of course it's all moot now, but I do wonder if, given how the Southern Region Slammers continued to give sterling service right up to withdrawal, a heavy refurbishment of the 1950s DMUs might have worked out better value than the introduction of pacers

I would love to send a load of 142 Cattle Trucks down London way, no offence to people in the smoke, but I would love to see Boris travel on one and see what fuss he would kick up