What is the experience of train travel in India vs the UK or other countries?

[Jozhua]

Recently been fascinated by the Indian rail system and wanted to find out some more perhaps from the perspective of people more used to travel in the UK/Europe.

I really like the energy of it, they've got some trains running at high speeds on tracks that don't particularly seem designed for it! Is passenger comfort fairly good, or can it be a bit bouncy? Is the service reliable, how much does it cost and what's the general frequency/journey times?

It seems like they have got the art of widespread electrification down and many of the trains look fairly clean and modern inside. I'm sure the larger prevalence of loco hauled trains makes things a bit quieter. The large amount of at grade crossings makes them seem to ride the horn a bit, but this is fairly common around the world, especially in North America. Europe is probably the exception for this, rather than the rule!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Basic but absolutely fascinating. I think I may have posted these photos before (and I've put a lot of weight on since these) but have a nose

With regard to ride, I found it pretty decent in most places on the mainlines. There's also a lot more electrification than you'd think.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And a few more

Edit: I love the religious message (which was on the station wall at Shimla), perhaps that needs to be said more.

X8.jpg shows a mysterious Shimla "second station" (appears to have been called the "Shimla Extension Railway Station") which was at the time disused (you could walk down the trackbed to it) and was built into the underneath of the old ISBT (Interstate Bus Terminal), this would have been a useful interchange but the bus station has now moved a fair way away. It has now been converted to a museum.

 

[U-Bahnfreund]

And a few more

What's an "electric complaint room"?

 

[Bletchleyite]

What's an "electric complaint room"?

I think, in the wonderfully olde-worlde Indian way, it refers to a room where you can go and make a complaint and it will be entered straight onto the IT system rather than you having to complete paper forms.

 

[WideRanger]

It has been 6 years since my last journey on an Indian train, but before that, I rode them pretty frequently for a few years. Some observations that might have a bearing on some of the things mentioned above:

• There are some pretty modern trains. But these are very much the exception.
• A typical intercity train will be 16-20 carriages, running once a day, on a journey of between 12 hours and 3 days. Some routes with multiple trains per day will have massive variations in overall speed. If I remember correctly, the fastest journey between Mumbai and Delhi I saw was around 11 hours. The slowest was well over 24 hours.
• First class is cheap by British standards, but generally more expensive than flying for long distances. Other classes are even cheaper. My 10km commute in Mumbai was the equivalent of 4 pence in 2nd class and 20 pence in 1st class. The only difference between the two classes being the number of people who can afford it. The queue for tickets sometimes took as long as the journey itself.
• Every TV programme about Mumbai railways features the dabba-wallers. Interesting as they are, they are really not at all a big feature of the trains.
• Booking trains always used to be an extremely painful experience with random outcomes using the Indian Railways website. It felt like an computer front end to what was an essentially manual system
• Safety is not the strong point. Forget classic images of people sitting on the top of trains. I never saw that. Not least because of OHLE. But it was quite common to have people hanging out of the side of train, with their fingertips. Or riding on the buffers between cars because of a lack of space in the train itself. Sadly, many didn't have as good a grip as they hoped. And signals were often closer to the train than they estimated. Stand in the doorway, and you should expect to be shoved out before the train comes to a stop.
• Lots of people walk, live and go to toilet freely along the side of the track, so the concept of an at-grade crossing as a point of danger is a bit meaningless.
• When I was there, the daily death toll on the Mumbai commuter railway alone was 11 people, on average. They didn't stop the trains for casualties.
• There is always something interesting to buy on Indian commuter trains for less than 50p. And there was always an interesting argument happening somewhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Another curious (non-railway, but transport related) thing about India is that it has its own Milton Keynes, with a grid and roundabouts - it's called Chandigarh. Most intriguing.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

My brother in the late 1980s got a first class all line Indian rail rover. He said it was worth every penny.

 

[Bletchleyite]

• Every TV programme about Mumbai railways features the dabba-wallers. Interesting as they are, they are really not at all a big feature of the trains.

However, the "chai-wallahs" definitely are. Chaichaichaichaichaichaichaichaichaichaichai! Also, Eggbiryanivegbiryanieggbiryanivegbiryani....

• Booking trains always used to be an extremely painful experience with random outcomes using the Indian Railways website. It felt like an computer front end to what was an essentially manual system

To some extent it still is, and trains have long, long waiting lists often months ahead, there is not nearly enough capacity. However, when I was there (10 years ago or thereabouts) there were "tourist quotas" which were available at short notice but only to people with a tourist visa, as well as a quota called "Tatkal" which was released 48 hours in advance at an additional fee but get in quick! It was the latter that got me on a train as I couldn't use the tourist quota as I had a business visa (as it was some tourism tacked onto a work trip). This was, FWIW, the correct way to do such a trip, but in India bureaucracy reigns supreme and so if you haven't got the exact right paperwork you aren't coming in! Discretion is not widely used.

"Unreserved second class" is as it says unreserved so you can just rock up and buy a ticket, though not available on every train, but would be purgatory for a long journey. Full and standing doesn't come close to describing it.

 

[cav1975]

I have used the suburban trains in Chennai (Madras) occasionally over the last 3 or 4 years. Very cheap - less than 10 pence for a 30 minute journey in 2nd class but 10 times that for 1st. My experience was that timekeeping was brilliant with all the trains that I can remember being on time. The trains were generally 12 cars long with separate zones for 3rd class, 1st Class, Ladies and Vendors. Very full with the flow in the rush hour but perfectly usable at other times. Seats are wood which is quite practical for short journeys and means that they are clean. Many trains, but not all, had tri-lingual displays showing the next station and some had tri-lingual pre-recorded announcements.

There were quite a few long distance trains on the adjacent fast lines - many 22 carriages long with a single electric loco!

Overall I was impressed.

Chennai has a new Metro. Air conditioned "clinical" trains, much more expensive than the suburban trains and almost empty.

 

[Jozhua]

Basic but absolutely fascinating. I think I may have posted these photos before (and I've put a lot of weight on since these) but have a nose

With regard to ride, I found it pretty decent in most places on the mainlines. There's also a lot more electrification than you'd think.

Very fascinating, good to hear the ride is of a decent quality.
Clearly done a much better job of electrification than we have!

It has been 6 years since my last journey on an Indian train, but before that, I rode them pretty frequently for a few years. Some observations that might have a bearing on some of the things mentioned above:

• There are some pretty modern trains. But these are very much the exception.
• A typical intercity train will be 16-20 carriages, running once a day, on a journey of between 12 hours and 3 days. Some routes with multiple trains per day will have massive variations in overall speed. If I remember correctly, the fastest journey between Mumbai and Delhi I saw was around 11 hours. The slowest was well over 24 hours.
• First class is cheap by British standards, but generally more expensive than flying for long distances. Other classes are even cheaper. My 10km commute in Mumbai was the equivalent of 4 pence in 2nd class and 20 pence in 1st class. The only difference between the two classes being the number of people who can afford it. The queue for tickets sometimes took as long as the journey itself.
• Every TV programme about Mumbai railways features the dabba-wallers. Interesting as they are, they are really not at all a big feature of the trains.
• Booking trains always used to be an extremely painful experience with random outcomes using the Indian Railways website. It felt like an computer front end to what was an essentially manual system
• Safety is not the strong point. Forget classic images of people sitting on the top of trains. I never saw that. Not least because of OHLE. But it was quite common to have people hanging out of the side of train, with their fingertips. Or riding on the buffers between cars because of a lack of space in the train itself. Sadly, many didn't have as good a grip as they hoped. And signals were often closer to the train than they estimated. Stand in the doorway, and you should expect to be shoved out before the train comes to a stop.
• Lots of people walk, live and go to toilet freely along the side of the track, so the concept of an at-grade crossing as a point of danger is a bit meaningless.
• When I was there, the daily death toll on the Mumbai commuter railway alone was 11 people, on average. They didn't stop the trains for casualties.
• There is always something interesting to buy on Indian commuter trains for less than 50p. And there was always an interesting argument happening somewhere.

Yeah, the deaths are unfortunate, but considering the danger involved with the roads, I'd bet it's probably fairly even. A programme of public education on the subject could really go a long way, just making people aware how high the risks are. Noting the Florida Brightline also had issues with this, when they increased the speeds of trains going through at grade crossings.

"Unreserved second class" is as it says unreserved so you can just rock up and buy a ticket, though not available on every train, but would be purgatory for a long journey. Full and standing doesn't come close to describing it.

Bit like pre-pandemic Transpennine Express then

Considering India's increasing wealth, are they managing to work on expanding the capacity of trains? Maybe they could do with an in-house rail manufacturer, to pump out some cheap carriages and locos. *Correction - looked it up and this is exactly what they are doing*

Perhaps buying up some used fleets from Europe and the US could work too, if they were willing to fit broad gauge bogies.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Very fascinating, good to hear the ride is of a decent quality.
Clearly done a much better job of electrification than we have!

Yeah, the deaths are unfortunate, but considering the danger involved with the roads, I'd bet it's probably fairly even. A programme of public education on the subject could really go a long way, just making people aware how high the risks are. Noting the Florida Brightline also had issues with this, when they increased the speeds of trains going through at grade crossings.

Bit like pre-pandemic Transpennine Express then

Considering India's increasing wealth, are they managing to work on expanding the capacity of trains? Maybe they could do with an in-house rail manufacturer, to pump out some cheap carriages and locos. *Correction - looked it up and this is exactly what they are doing*

Perhaps buying up some used fleets from Europe and the US could work too, if they were willing to fit broad gauge bogies.

They do have some stock which look like tarted-up Mark 2 AC coaches. Think there's a red and a blue version depending on the service.

Shatabdi Express - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

Perhaps buying up some used fleets from Europe and the US could work too, if they were willing to fit broad gauge bogies.

Loading gauge on broad gauge lines is very generous. Cars are over 3.2 metres wide, so European stock would be inconveniently narrow and passenger capacity would be lower. In any case, Indian Railways factories make thousands of passenger cars every year.

ICF set a new record producing 2,503 coaches in the fiscal year 2017–2018. It became the world's largest railway coach manufacturer, rolling out 3,262 coaches in the fiscal year 2018–2019, up from 1,437 coaches in 2009–2010,[2] expecting to produce 4,000 units in the fiscal year 2019–2020.

 

[eMeS]

I was surprised to find that much of Indian Railways is broad gauge, when my history lessons tried telling me that the UK was responsible for creating the early railways in India.

 

[Jozhua]

I was surprised to find that much of Indian Railways is broad gauge, when my history lessons tried telling me that the UK was responsible for creating the early railways in India.

Yeah, I mean the British were responsible for seeding some of the early railways around the world, but I doubt we're responsible for the majority of the networks we see in these places today.

Indian railways have grown significantly and dealt with large passenger number increases since the end of British rule. Frankly, considering what they have achieved in regards to electrification, it seems like they have done a better job upgrading the network than we have. At least considering resources available and the distances that need to be covered.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

I was surprised to find that much of Indian Railways is broad gauge, when my history lessons tried telling me that the UK was responsible for creating the early railways in India.

Your lessons were not wrong.

The erstwhile Great Indian Peninsula Railway introduced a broad gauge of 1,676 mm (5 ft 6 in) for the first passenger railway line in India, between Bori Bunder and Thane. This was later adopted as the standard throughout the country, as it was thought to be safer in areas prone to cyclones and flooding.