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What is the largest size of road vehicle that can be carried on GB rail?

swt_passenger

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I have seen land rover, "protected patrol vehicles" (?) and infantry fighting vehicles ( Warrior?) moved by rail in this country and I have seen pictures of challenger tanks on trains in Germany.

I am also sure i read a report a few years ago about the army moving tanks through the channel tunnel by train as part of an exercise.
There are reports online of a 2017 exercise which moved 5 main battle tanks to France and back on flat wagons, but there’s nothing in the report about how the tanks reached the tunnel on this side. Presumably standard road transporters as far as Dollands Moor?
 
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DarloRich

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As an aside I am sure I recall an "infantry fighting vehicle" sliding off a train on the Wensleydale ( used as Catterick Garrison is over the hill) and ending up in a field!
There are reports online of a 2017 exercise which moved 5 main battle tanks to France and back on flat wagons, but there’s nothing in the report about how the tanks reached the tunnel on this side. Presumably standard road transporters as far as Dollands Moor?
at least they had a nice ride out on the train for some of the journey ;)
 

signed

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The VIIA France-Luxemboug rail link has specific terminals where the trailers are brought onto the flat railcars with its own lorry with the cars rotating allowing for a RoRo experience

maxresdefault.jpg

Image from
 

DarloRich

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There are reports online of a 2017 exercise which moved 5 main battle tanks to France and back on flat wagons, but there’s nothing in the report about how the tanks reached the tunnel on this side. Presumably standard road transporters as far as Dollands Moor?
found such a report here:


Army moves tanks through Channel Tunnel during secret exercise
Defence sources tell Sky News the rail network could be commandeered during a crisis as five tanks are taken to France and back.
 

Dr Hoo

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Back in the day, many USA Sherman tanks were shipped to GB in advance of D-Day and moved by rail. They were 8’ 10” wide, so within gauge.
(Some later versions of Shermans, with wider tracks and so on, were up to 9’ 10” wide but not relevant to this thread.

The Wensleydale incident above highlights the difficulty of lateral containment of vehicles if there is no wagon ‘side’ beyond the wheels or tracks. This obviously requires an even greater gauge, often below platform level, for ‘well’ or ‘pocket’ types of wagon.
 

D6975

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A Challenger 3 is 3.5m wide, the new Ajax IFVs are 3.35m. The Warriors they replace are 3.03m. The CVRT family were all around 2.4m.
I have seen warriors being moved by rail in the UK through Northallerton station.
 

Dr Hoo

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I’ve dealt with Warriors by rail but only as an out-of-gauge load. They had to be very precisely positioned on the wagon and very firmly secured. Had to be a flat deck, not a ‘well’ type.

Not a standard load by any means.
 

swt_passenger

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I’ve dealt with Warriors by rail but only as an out-of-gauge load. They had to be very precisely positioned on the wagon and very firmly secured. Had to be a flat deck, not a ‘well’ type.

Not a standard load by any means.
At the width stated eatlier, would they overhang platforms slightly?
 

furnessvale

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Just to add to that, the last roadrailer trains have just run in the USA where the concept started.

I believe the traffic is to continue in conventional containers.
Further to the above post, I have just seen video, recorded on 10 Sept of the new "Triple Crown" roadrailer replacement.

It is a unit train of 5 car sets of container/road trailer cars. The load was a mixture of standard 48ft containers mounted directly on the cars, containers on skeletal trailers on the cars and new road trailers. Interestingly, some of the trailers were still the old roadrailers but being carried on conflats. No doubt these will be replaced as more new equipment comes along.

Unless anyone knows differently, this would appear to be the end of the roadrailer concept.
 

ac6000cw

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this would appear to be the end of the roadrailer concept.
I agree.

It is a unit train of 5 car sets of container/road trailer cars. The load was a mixture of standard 48ft containers mounted directly on the cars, containers on skeletal trailers on the cars and new road trailers. Interestingly, some of the trailers were still the old roadrailers but being carried on conflats. No doubt these will be replaced as more new equipment comes along.
So basically a normal single-level mixed container & TOFC intermodal train consist.
 

furnessvale

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So basically a normal single-level mixed container & TOFC intermodal train consist.
Yes, although double stacks are beginning to appear in the consist.

On the use of roadrailer trailers as TOFC, I wonder if some are internally fitted out for specific customers? This could lead to their continued use until life expired or replacement by similarly fitted boxes.
 

Rhydgaled

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There is absolutely no need to carry a full road vehicle about on rail, when its body can be lifted off and transferred to rail in the same length of time it takes to transfer the artic trailer.

I have always said, " show me a loading gauge in the UK large enough to carry any given road vehicle complete with its wheels, and I will leave the wheels behind, carrying an even larger swap body on the train."
Is there really any advantage in roadrailer vs just transshipping a container, if it's not a tunnel-shuttle sort of operation?
It's tunnel-shuttle sort of operations that I was thinking of when I started this topic. Specifically, a few years ago I vaugely remember seeing that the UK Government were running a consultation on increasing the maximum size of HGV permitted on UK roads. I was wondering, if they did the opposite and made the largest HGVs a bit smaller, could rail-based shuttle services be set up to allow HGVs to get round sections of road where a HGV ban is put in place?

those front loaders or gantry cranes come rather expensive
Which is one of the reasons why I think a roll-on, roll-off train would be the ideal solution for the scenario I have in mind.

In a reverse of the railway situation, road vehicles can be taller here than in a lot of Europe - standard height for HGVs in the EU is 4m, compared with 5m here (16'6" strictly). So to carry a standard EU HGV a train needs a much smaller loading gauge. There is an ongoing project to expand various routes across the Alps to be able to fit 4m trucks on.

Container flats have ~1m high floors, so you could easily carry a high-roofed Transit anywhere, but there's nothing like the space for even a 9ft container to be carried whilst still on a trailer, let alone anything bigger
I don't know about the UK, but even the standard French loading gauge was not enough to accommodate many lorry trailers. Early rolling motorways were limited to tankers, until they raised some bridges. Tankers are generally smaller than the 4,00m maximum legal height of trucks on the continent.

There are no restrictions on vehicle height in the UK, so they can be noticeably taller - up to 5m I understand. Given the GB W6 and W12 guage is so much smaller than the continent, then only small road vehicles could fit.
Blast; that sounds like even reducing the legal limits on the size of HGVs on UK roads would be unlikely to help get around areas where HGVs are unwelcome on the roads. On the other hand, if even the biggest Transit vans will fit on rail, perhaps having a load of them on a train instead of 2 or three HGVs could be a solution?

Almost exactly 10 years ago I was west of Harrisburg PA on the Norfolk Southern (ex-PRR) mainline when the only RoadRailer I've ever seen 'in the metal' rolled past heading east, followed a few minutes later by a westbound mixed trailer-on-flatcar (TOFC) and single-stacked container train. As a bonus, that was headed by bright green 'Illinois Terminal' NS heritage loco #1072:


(Updated to longer version of YT video, showing the whole of the RoadRailer train - which takes 3 minutes to pass)
Wow! How long was that RoadRailer? Several miles?
 
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PyrahnaRanger

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A long rigid lorry would need a lot more room to manoeuvre than an artic so road safety could be worse.
The longest rigid I drive is about 35ft and you have to really swing out at junctions to avoid the kerb and also watch for the large overhang at the back.

I’d argue there’s precedent though. For many years, “standard” size coaches were 40ft, but we can now have anything up to 15m rigid coaches, which is around 50ft I think. I’m never sure which is easier to corner with mind - a coach with its front wheels 6ft behind you, or a wagon with them at the front of the vehicle!
 

65477

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This thread is of revelvance

 

Adrian Barr

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So, my question is, how big can you go before a road vehicle would be out of guage? Would a relatively small reduction in the maximum size of Heavy Goods Vehicle permitted on UK roads have the side effect of allowing all road vehicles to also travel by rail? Or are the biggest HGVs on our roads already massively out of guage for our rail network (not just a little bit)? I guess this is a question with several answers, since special wagons which are lower can be used to carry a larger payload and the loading guage varies across the network. So, can a large Ford Transit be carried by rail on a route which is only cleared for W6? If so, what is the largest road vehicle that will fit? How about W7? W12? Etc.

This is an interesting question! I've done my best to answer by comparing the gauge requirements to the ones for containers:

Firstly I dug out some lorry dimensions for a haulage company with a range of mostly curtain-sided trucks that will do as a representative real-world example from the UK:
https://huntstransport.co.uk/our-fleet/dimensions-and-capabilities/

And here are some dimensions for the larger (taller) varieties of transit vans: https://www.vanguide.co.uk/guides/ford-transit-dimensions/

Taking the transits first, the heights vary from around 2.5 to 2.8 metres. This is comparable to the difference between the standard container height of 8 ft 6" (2.6m) and high cubes at 9ft 6" (2.9m).
The width quoted of 2.474m is very similar to a container, which are usually either 8ft (2.44m) width for deep sea containers or 2.5m wide for European ones.
From this you can assume that it wouldn't be too difficult to transport the taller models of transit vans around on the same routes you can take containers, without the wagons needing a lower deck than a typical container wagon.

Transit vans built at Swaythling (and later imported) were a familiar traffic on rail from Eastleigh and Southampton, although the wagons used would perhaps not have allowed the taller models:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shawfordjunction/40083602872/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/solent-rails/10176904605/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/71092681@N07/16634761329/

Some container wagons (I'm thinking of the IFA / FIA "multifret" design with a deck height of 945mm) are already in use by STVA for car traffic, fitted with flat-decks which are mounted like containers. In fact here they are with transits loaded onto them: https://www.flickr.com/photos/50619197@N07/24769628785/
If the deck fitted raises the height to something slightly below a metre above rail, the taller models of transits (not loaded in the picture) would probably end up creating similar gauging restrictions to W10 container traffic, although being vehicles rather than containers they would need to run under "X load" conditions (which is already the case for the regular flows of cars in double-deck wagons). A slightly lower deck design (similar to the multifrets) would allow traffic on a wider variety of routes, similar to W8 container gauge.

As can be seen, the problem is that even the ubiquitous types of van that are used to deliver Amazon parcels are already close to being the same size as containers that require gauge enhancement beyond the standard W6A.

Now for the lorries...
The haulier mentioned earlier has 7.5 ton GLW curtainsiders which are 3.5m tall, 12 ton curtainsiders which are 3.75m tall, and anything bigger than that is listed as 4.1m or 4.2m overall height.

Comparing this to intermodal container traffic, a typical "standard" intermodal flat has a deck height slightly below 1 metre above the rail, which can carry containers up to ~2.9 metres tall within W10 gauge. So we can imagine that, at most, we have 3.9m to play with for our vehicle traffic to operate on the same network as the core W10 intermodal network (which is already somewhat restricted in terms of routes).

Ignoring special wagons with small wheels (FLA, IDA with deck heights between 700 and 730mm), "pocket" wagons (KTA) and the FAA well-type wagons, the lowest flat-deck intermodal wagons in widespread use are the "megafret" types (IKA, FKA) with an 825mm deck above rail height. If you imagine some similar wagons were built with a flat deck suitable for vehicles, deducting the 825mm deck from the total available height of 3.9m leaves a little over 3m for the vehicles themselves, which is hopeless for lorry traffic.

To get around this, combinations of specialised wagon with specialised trailer have been used in the past. Apart from the "Piggyback" design mentioned above, there was also the "Eurospine" design for which special Parcelforce lorry trailers (capable of being lifted on and off by crane) were built. They did operate in regular service between Mossend and Willesden for a while.
Quite a sight on the WCML (not to mention the 37 + 92 combination at the front)... https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/52211365229/
And looking suitably surreal at Warrington: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wagonsontheweb/9205064139/

Extra height is gained by having the wheels of the trailer positioned below the top of the rail wheels. However, you are restricted to lifting on the trailers (or in the case of Piggyback, other awkward manoeuvres which are a far cry from the "rolling motorway" concept of Le Shuttle). By the time you have built a special wagon and a special lorry trailer (well below the typical height of ones used for parcels and mail) and lifted it onto the train at an intermodal terminal... you might as well just be using a container, or driving a regular lorry the whole distance.

Another road-rail system was trialled by Blue Circle but was very short-lived. Although cement tankers had far less problem with gauging due to their round profile, I think there was still some sacrifice of payload compared to a conventional cement lorry, added to the hassle of loading and unloading. Looking at a picture of the train, I assume these also must have been lifted in and out from the wagons. The caption is rather cynical about the motives for the trial, but it does make for a lovely picture, like something from a model railway: https://www.flickr.com/photos/97660049@N06/31605741071/
The wagons ended up in Europe before reappearing in the UK for a brief period, used as low-deck container wagons on an Immingham - Doncaster Iport trial service:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/74356787@N05/51739730798/
https://www.iportrail.com/humber-express-shuttle-service-launched/

I'm not sure how well reported it was in the railway press, but there was a one-off trial of lorry trailers from Cologne to Barking (Ripple Lane) container terminal via HS1 for TX Logistick in June last year:
https://www.railjournal.com/freight/london-cologne-intermodal-service-to-launch-in-september/
The wagons used have some resemblance to the general design of the Eurospine discussed above:
https://gueterwagenkatalog.dbcargo.com/catalogue/by-wagon-category/T3000e-Sdggmrss-T3000es-Sdggmrs--9121260

An unusual feature is that the system is designed to load standard lorry trailers by placing them in a sort of "cassette" for loading onto the wagons. Pictures of this can be seen in the railjournal article above, which says that "The service will be able to carry semitrailers using the NiKrasa system, which allows non-craneable semitrailers to be loaded onto pocket wagons without the need to adapt wagons, trailers or terminal facilities."
In the end I don't think there was enough demand for the trial to bring it into regular operation, although it says the system is in use in Europe operating between Germany and Italy.

With a typical lorry being 2.5m wide (the same width as a European container) it can be seen that along with the height, width would be an issue for any sort of "drive-on" service for lorries. To fit within the loading gauge it seems inevitable that lorry trailers would have to be securely mounted in a similar way to containers, rather than "parked" on a wagon with any room to spare each side. I also wonder whether those T3000 / Sdggmrs wagons would fit the regular UK gauge even when empty - they are wider than the lorry trailers they carry which might foul the UK loading gauge for station platforms, for example. Ignoring that possibility, the info appears to say that the trailers are carried a mere 270mm (0.27m) above rail height.

Going back to the roughly 3.9m above rail to fit within the W10 gauge for container traffic, that would still only allow trailers of about 3.6m height, lower than the 4.1m or 4.2m listed on that haulier website. It's hard to imagine getting the trailers much lower to the rail, so UK gauging will always be an issue no matter what wagon type is designed for lorry traffic.

To work out similar back-of-the-envelope calculations for other gauges (as requested in the original post), this is a very "rough and ready" guide to gauges as they relate to container traffic of a similar 2.5m width to the average lorry:

Max Height from rail for 2.5m wide containers to fit different gauges*:

W7 gauge = 3.393m (W7 gauge created for 8’ high ISO containers on standard flats)
W7a = 3635mm for 2.5m wide boxes
W8 gauge = 3.618m (W8 gauge created for 8’6” high ISO containers on standard flats)
W9 gauge = 3.715m (W9 gauge created for SB1C 9’0” high 2.6m wide European swapbodies)
W9A gauge = 3.730m (W9a gauge created for S45 swapbodies (2.9m) on 825mm deck megafrets)
W10 gauge = 3.891m (W10 gauge created for 9’6” high 2.5m wide boxes on most standard height flats)
W11 gauge = 3.891m (W11 gauge created for 2.55m wide 9’ 6” swapbodies on certain wagons)
W12 gauge = 3.896m (W12 gauge created for 2.6m wide 9’ 6” swapbodies on certain wagons)

*N.B this is a simplified digest compiled from various sources and the figures are not 100% accurate. There are some slight variations with different wagon types. The “J tables” in the rule book determine which combinations of wagon and container fit within each gauge. Gauging is not calculated purely on height, it also takes into account suspension characteristics and other engineering calculations which I don't pretend to understand.

It can be seen that moving "up" through the gauges does not always mean a big increase in height, as some are focused on allowing for wider European "swapbodies" with non-standard dimensions. Even a universally applied W12 gauge would be of very limited benefit for any sort of "rolling road" for lorries, which would require dedicated infrastructure...

Before there was HS2... there was the "Central Railway" freight proposal!

....a 400 mile railway linking Liverpool and Lille... intended to operate flat wagons that could be used by lorry trailers, rather than being aimed at containers.
https://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2...y-of-the-freight-railway-that-never-happened/
 

Tester

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This is an interesting question! I've done my best to answer by comparing the gauge requirements to the ones for containers:

Firstly I dug out some lorry dimensions for a haulage company with a range of mostly curtain-sided trucks that will do as a representative real-world example from the UK:
https://huntstransport.co.uk/our-fleet/dimensions-and-capabilities/

And here are some dimensions for the larger (taller) varieties of transit vans: https://www.vanguide.co.uk/guides/ford-transit-dimensions/

Taking the transits first, the heights vary from around 2.5 to 2.8 metres. This is comparable to the difference between the standard container height of 8 ft 6" (2.6m) and high cubes at 9ft 6" (2.9m).
The width quoted of 2.474m is very similar to a container, which are usually either 8ft (2.44m) width for deep sea containers or 2.5m wide for European ones.
From this you can assume that it wouldn't be too difficult to transport the taller models of transit vans around on the same routes you can take containers, without the wagons needing a lower deck than a typical container wagon.

Transit vans built at Swaythling (and later imported) were a familiar traffic on rail from Eastleigh and Southampton, although the wagons used would perhaps not have allowed the taller models:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/shawfordjunction/40083602872/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/solent-rails/10176904605/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/71092681@N07/16634761329/

Some container wagons (I'm thinking of the IFA / FIA "multifret" design with a deck height of 945mm) are already in use by STVA for car traffic, fitted with flat-decks which are mounted like containers. In fact here they are with transits loaded onto them: https://www.flickr.com/photos/50619197@N07/24769628785/
If the deck fitted raises the height to something slightly below a metre above rail, the taller models of transits (not loaded in the picture) would probably end up creating similar gauging restrictions to W10 container traffic, although being vehicles rather than containers they would need to run under "X load" conditions (which is already the case for the regular flows of cars in double-deck wagons). A slightly lower deck design (similar to the multifrets) would allow traffic on a wider variety of routes, similar to W8 container gauge.

As can be seen, the problem is that even the ubiquitous types of van that are used to deliver Amazon parcels are already close to being the same size as containers that require gauge enhancement beyond the standard W6A.

Now for the lorries...
The haulier mentioned earlier has 7.5 ton GLW curtainsiders which are 3.5m tall, 12 ton curtainsiders which are 3.75m tall, and anything bigger than that is listed as 4.1m or 4.2m overall height.

Comparing this to intermodal container traffic, a typical "standard" intermodal flat has a deck height slightly below 1 metre above the rail, which can carry containers up to ~2.9 metres tall within W10 gauge. So we can imagine that, at most, we have 3.9m to play with for our vehicle traffic to operate on the same network as the core W10 intermodal network (which is already somewhat restricted in terms of routes).

Ignoring special wagons with small wheels (FLA, IDA with deck heights between 700 and 730mm), "pocket" wagons (KTA) and the FAA well-type wagons, the lowest flat-deck intermodal wagons in widespread use are the "megafret" types (IKA, FKA) with an 825mm deck above rail height. If you imagine some similar wagons were built with a flat deck suitable for vehicles, deducting the 825mm deck from the total available height of 3.9m leaves a little over 3m for the vehicles themselves, which is hopeless for lorry traffic.

To get around this, combinations of specialised wagon with specialised trailer have been used in the past. Apart from the "Piggyback" design mentioned above, there was also the "Eurospine" design for which special Parcelforce lorry trailers (capable of being lifted on and off by crane) were built. They did operate in regular service between Mossend and Willesden for a while.
Quite a sight on the WCML (not to mention the 37 + 92 combination at the front)... https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/52211365229/
And looking suitably surreal at Warrington: https://www.flickr.com/photos/wagonsontheweb/9205064139/

Extra height is gained by having the wheels of the trailer positioned below the top of the rail wheels. However, you are restricted to lifting on the trailers (or in the case of Piggyback, other awkward manoeuvres which are a far cry from the "rolling motorway" concept of Le Shuttle). By the time you have built a special wagon and a special lorry trailer (well below the typical height of ones used for parcels and mail) and lifted it onto the train at an intermodal terminal... you might as well just be using a container, or driving a regular lorry the whole distance.

Another road-rail system was trialled by Blue Circle but was very short-lived. Although cement tankers had far less problem with gauging due to their round profile, I think there was still some sacrifice of payload compared to a conventional cement lorry, added to the hassle of loading and unloading. Looking at a picture of the train, I assume these also must have been lifted in and out from the wagons. The caption is rather cynical about the motives for the trial, but it does make for a lovely picture, like something from a model railway: https://www.flickr.com/photos/97660049@N06/31605741071/
The wagons ended up in Europe before reappearing in the UK for a brief period, used as low-deck container wagons on an Immingham - Doncaster Iport trial service:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/74356787@N05/51739730798/
https://www.iportrail.com/humber-express-shuttle-service-launched/

I'm not sure how well reported it was in the railway press, but there was a one-off trial of lorry trailers from Cologne to Barking (Ripple Lane) container terminal via HS1 for TX Logistick in June last year:
https://www.railjournal.com/freight/london-cologne-intermodal-service-to-launch-in-september/
The wagons used have some resemblance to the general design of the Eurospine discussed above:
https://gueterwagenkatalog.dbcargo....gory/T3000e-Sdggmrss-T3000es-Sdggmrs--9121260

An unusual feature is that the system is designed to load standard lorry trailers by placing them in a sort of "cassette" for loading onto the wagons. Pictures of this can be seen in the railjournal article above, which says that "The service will be able to carry semitrailers using the NiKrasa system, which allows non-craneable semitrailers to be loaded onto pocket wagons without the need to adapt wagons, trailers or terminal facilities."
In the end I don't think there was enough demand for the trial to bring it into regular operation, although it says the system is in use in Europe operating between Germany and Italy.

With a typical lorry being 2.5m wide (the same width as a European container) it can be seen that along with the height, width would be an issue for any sort of "drive-on" service for lorries. To fit within the loading gauge it seems inevitable that lorry trailers would have to be securely mounted in a similar way to containers, rather than "parked" on a wagon with any room to spare each side. I also wonder whether those T3000 / Sdggmrs wagons would fit the regular UK gauge even when empty - they are wider than the lorry trailers they carry which might foul the UK loading gauge for station platforms, for example. Ignoring that possibility, the info appears to say that the trailers are carried a mere 270mm (0.27m) above rail height.

Going back to the roughly 3.9m above rail to fit within the W10 gauge for container traffic, that would still only allow trailers of about 3.6m height, lower than the 4.1m or 4.2m listed on that haulier website. It's hard to imagine getting the trailers much lower to the rail, so UK gauging will always be an issue no matter what wagon type is designed for lorry traffic.

To work out similar back-of-the-envelope calculations for other gauges (as requested in the original post), this is a very "rough and ready" guide to gauges as they relate to container traffic of a similar 2.5m width to the average lorry:

Max Height from rail for 2.5m wide containers to fit different gauges*:

W7 gauge = 3.393m (W7 gauge created for 8’ high ISO containers on standard flats)
W7a = 3635mm for 2.5m wide boxes
W8 gauge = 3.618m (W8 gauge created for 8’6” high ISO containers on standard flats)
W9 gauge = 3.715m (W9 gauge created for SB1C 9’0” high 2.6m wide European swapbodies)
W9A gauge = 3.730m (W9a gauge created for S45 swapbodies (2.9m) on 825mm deck megafrets)
W10 gauge = 3.891m (W10 gauge created for 9’6” high 2.5m wide boxes on most standard height flats)
W11 gauge = 3.891m (W11 gauge created for 2.55m wide 9’ 6” swapbodies on certain wagons)
W12 gauge = 3.896m (W12 gauge created for 2.6m wide 9’ 6” swapbodies on certain wagons)

*N.B this is a simplified digest compiled from various sources and the figures are not 100% accurate. There are some slight variations with different wagon types. The “J tables” in the rule book determine which combinations of wagon and container fit within each gauge. Gauging is not calculated purely on height, it also takes into account suspension characteristics and other engineering calculations which I don't pretend to understand.

It can be seen that moving "up" through the gauges does not always mean a big increase in height, as some are focused on allowing for wider European "swapbodies" with non-standard dimensions. Even a universally applied W12 gauge would be of very limited benefit for any sort of "rolling road" for lorries, which would require dedicated infrastructure...

Before there was HS2... there was the "Central Railway" freight proposal!
Thank you very much for this very comprehensive post.
 

Dr Hoo

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Fantastic post from @Adrian Barr .

Something that still hasn’t been mentioned very often is that the ‘craneable’ trailers mentioned above for some trials usually needed a slightly narrower wheel configuration to allow for adequate (and fairly tight) lateral containment. Although not particularly relevant to the size and capacity of the bodies it nevertheless meant that the trailers were ‘bespoke’ and thus more expensive than standard ones, further undermining the economics.
 

furnessvale

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Fantastic post from @Adrian Barr .

Something that still hasn’t been mentioned very often is that the ‘craneable’ trailers mentioned above for some trials usually needed a slightly narrower wheel configuration to allow for adequate (and fairly tight) lateral containment. Although not particularly relevant to the size and capacity of the bodies it nevertheless meant that the trailers were ‘bespoke’ and thus more expensive than standard ones, further undermining the economics.
Anything "craneable" is by its very nature bespoke as a standard road trailer would buckle at any attempt to lift it at the points used by piggyback loaders.
 

mpthomson

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18 Feb 2016
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I’d argue there’s precedent though. For many years, “standard” size coaches were 40ft, but we can now have anything up to 15m rigid coaches, which is around 50ft I think. I’m never sure which is easier to corner with mind - a coach with its front wheels 6ft behind you, or a wagon with them at the front of the vehicle!
15m coaches tend to be tri-axle with the rear axle also steering.
 

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