What is the most dismal un-passenger friendly large railway station in UK

[Ken H]

follow on from Manchester Victoria thread.
Lets define large as 7 platforms or more. a through platform counts as 2
ignore any letter suffixes, like 4a,4b,4c unless they are really separate platforms.
so Lancaster has 3 throughs and 2 bays so counts 8

If you nominate Birmingham New St, you have to nominate a 2nd choice or that will drown out all others!

Ideas to make them better welcome.

 

[Iskra]

Manchester Piccadilly. Used to be alright but the new red box system with petty jobsworths literally yelling at passengers on P13/14 is a truly awful experience that should not exist in this day and age.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Manchester Piccadilly. Used to be alright but the new red box system with petty jobsworths literally yelling at passengers on P13/14 is a truly awful experience that should not exist in this day and age.

I actually like New St these days and go out of my way to change/stop over there for a brew and a bit of food. Still has its faults, but overall an amazing transformation.

Crewe is pretty rubbish. There are decent food places nearby (including a quite good curry house I patronised yesterday evening - out of the door, turn left, cross the road and it's on your left a bit further up) but nothing of note on the station, the pub shuts early and it's freezing cold in winter.

Picc is civilised and pleasant if using the main trainshed platforms. 13/14 are a disgrace, and this will only be solved by either building 15/16 or significantly cutting the number of trains using it, however much they try to prat about with it and have people shouting at you.

Bristol Temple Meads is quite poor. The trainshed is stunningly beautiful, but it completely lacks a concourse and has a very poor selection of retail/food. They really need to convert part of the old trainshed into a food concourse as was done at Leeds.

 

[DarloRich]

I actually like New St these days and go out of my way to change/stop over there for a brew and a bit of food. Still has its faults, but overall an amazing transformation.

Crewe is pretty rubbish. There are decent food places nearby (including a quite good curry house I patronised yesterday evening - out of the door, turn left, cross the road and it's on your left a bit further up) but nothing of note on the station, the pub shuts early and it's freezing cold in winter.

Picc is civilised and pleasant if using the main trainshed platforms. 13/14 are a disgrace, and this will only be solved by either building 15/16 or significantly cutting the number of trains using it, however much they try to prat about with it and have people shouting at you.

Bristol Temple Meads is quite poor. The trainshed is stunningly beautiful, but it completely lacks a concourse and has a very poor selection of retail/food. They really need to convert part of the old trainshed into a food concourse as was done at Leeds.

I agree with all that. I find Temple Meads just a bit meh. I am not sure what more they can do at Piccadilly. Those side platforms get awfully crowded.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not sure what more they can do at Piccadilly. Those side platforms get awfully crowded.

Build 15/16 or cut the number of trains through it[1]. Those are the only fixes, despite all the wibble the Government come out with.

[1] It would work fine as a Thameslink/LU subsurface/Merseyrail style thing with long trains (Class 700 style) and uniform door positions - but that would require moving *all* the IC type stuff like TPE to Victoria and removing the TPE Manchester Airport through trains, which is not popular.

 

[Doomotron]

Albeit not the worst by any means, London Victoria and St Pancras are confusing. Then again, they are both beautiful.

 

[DarloRich]

Build 15/16 or cut the number of trains through it[1]. Those are the only fixes, despite all the wibble the Government come out with.

Agreed. but it doesn't look like happening soon.

It would work fine as a Thameslink/LU subsurface/Merseyrail style thing with long trains (Class 700 style) and uniform door positions - but that would require moving *all* the IC type stuff like TPE to Victoria and removing the TPE Manchester Airport through trains, which is not popular.

manchester Airport is a success story. Why make it less attractive?

 

[yorksrob]

I actually like New St these days and go out of my way to change/stop over there for a brew and a bit of food. Still has its faults, but overall an amazing transformation.

Crewe is pretty rubbish. There are decent food places nearby (including a quite good curry house I patronised yesterday evening - out of the door, turn left, cross the road and it's on your left a bit further up) but nothing of note on the station, the pub shuts early and it's freezing cold in winter.

Picc is civilised and pleasant if using the main trainshed platforms. 13/14 are a disgrace, and this will only be solved by either building 15/16 or significantly cutting the number of trains using it, however much they try to prat about with it and have people shouting at you.

Bristol Temple Meads is quite poor. The trainshed is stunningly beautiful, but it completely lacks a concourse and has a very poor selection of retail/food. They really need to convert part of the old trainshed into a food concourse as was done at Leeds.

I still dislike new street. Same old horror at platform level and the snazzy new shopping centre doesn't even have a "Tap" type establishment to get a decent beer. A wasted opportunity.

I like all the others you mention.

Picc has its train shed, Crewe has all of its old railway charm, but has also been tidied up a lot from twenty years ago.

My personal observation:

I dislike Reading generally, but at least the station used to have a bit of Great Western charm. Now it looks like a spaceship. I'd have preferred them to have built some new platforms in a sympathetic style.

 

[Ken H]

I am going to say Reading.
In winter its an inhospitable place
The bridge over the tracks is cold - I really feel for the the poor people who have to man the catering outlets up there. No attempt to make it even slightly weatherproof.
and the canopy sweeps up to cover the escalators so unless there is no wind, the platforms there are wet, as are the escalators.

 

[Bletchleyite]

manchester Airport is a success story. Why make it less attractive?

Because the 13/14 situation is much, much more pressing - even with the shouty men and the red line someone is going to get hurt sooner or later if there is much more growth in passenger numbers. However, I would rather it was fixed properly by building 15/16.

 

[Ken H]

...
manchester Airport is a success story. Why make it less attractive?

Cos the infrastructure cant cope.

 

[theshillito]

I'd say Euston. Constantly leaving it until the last minute to announce platforms, causing crushing crowds by the very few ticket gates (especially on Virgin Trains platforms). Sure, there's food places, but then nowhere to sit down to eat. The first class lounge is a fist fight to get a few pretzels (and, again, typically nowhere to sit down). As far as "un-passenger friendly" goes, Euston is the only one I'd give that title to for definite.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd say Euston. Constantly leaving it until the last minute to announce platforms, causing crushing crowds by the very few ticket gates (especially on Virgin Trains platforms). Sure, there's food places, but then nowhere to sit down to eat. The first class lounge is a fist fight to get a few pretzels (and, again, typically nowhere to sit down). As far as "un-passenger friendly" goes, Euston is the only one I'd give that title to for definite.

I quite like Euston, one of the best in my view. Just needs the "Euston scrum" to be abolished.

There are places to sit and eat - upstairs and just outside on the plaza there are eat-in restaurants (though upstairs suffers from non-eaters sitting there, and that needs solving). The takeaway places are intended for taking on the train with you.

 

[DarloRich]

Cos the infrastructure cant cope.

Because the 13/14 situation is much, much more pressing - even with the shouty men and the red line someone is going to get hurt sooner or later if there is much more growth in passenger numbers. However, I would rather it was fixed properly by building 15/16.

Cut/move some other services then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cut/move some other services then.

What other services? The vast majority of trains from Platform 13 go to Manchester Airport. Therefore, reducing services from Platform 13 will require reducing services to Manchester Airport, and the overall impact to passengers from removing the Liverpool to Norwich services would be much higher than from lopping 2 of the Airport trains (say).

 

[ooo]

I actually like New St these days and go out of my way to change/stop over there for a brew and a bit of food. Still has its faults, but overall an amazing transformation

I agree. Birmingham New Street is one of better places to change trains. The main thing I would like from it would be a away to know if the train is at the platform yet so I don't have to go down too early. The Tesco express upstairs is very useful for getting some food. I also like the Foyles upstairs - quite often I end up buying a book while waiting

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree. Birmingham New Street is one of better places to change trains. The main thing I would like from it would be a away to know if the train is at the platform yet so I don't have to go down too early.

Use Realtime Trains

Though to be fair, it would benefit from having "boarding" on the displays like some other stations do. Note to Euston: "boarding" means the doors are actually open, this isn't Stansted and it isn't Ryanair; a train is not "boarding" if I can't get on and take a seat, so don't waste my time.

 

[DarloRich]

What other services? The vast majority of trains from Platform 13 go to Manchester Airport. Therefore, reducing services from Platform 13 will require reducing services to Manchester Airport.

of course you are right. Got myself confused there! The ones to Rose Hill/New Mills etc go from the main station!

 

[Bletchleyite]

of course you are right. Got myself confused there! The ones to Rose Hill/New Mills etc go from the main station!

Indeed they do, the main station isn't an issue and is quite civilised.

I suppose you could send Liverpool-Norwich via Victoria and Denton, though the people of Warrington would be unhappy at losing their other fast Manchester train and train beyond Manchester, and there might not be room on Chat Moss for it.

 

[theshillito]

Use Realtime Trains

I don't know if BHM is any different, but I've had trains at Euston be at completely different platforms to those on RTT.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know if BHM is any different, but I've had trains at Euston be at completely different platforms to those on RTT.

When the platforms go bold on RTT they are in my experience 100% accurate at both those stations and it means the train is in that platform and has been entered into the signalling system as being there. Until they do they are just an expression of what normally happens.

Some other stations (most notably London Victoria) do have that issue, though.

 

[yorksrob]

I quite like Euston, one of the best in my view. Just needs the "Euston scrum" to be abolished.

There are places to sit and eat - upstairs and just outside on the plaza there are eat-in restaurants (though upstairs suffers from non-eaters sitting there, and that needs solving). The takeaway places are intended for taking on the train with you.

Yes, I like Euston (the concourse at least) as well. A bit of a period classic.

 

[martinsh]

Does Blackpool North qualify ?

 

[Ken H]

Cut/move some other services then.

Indeed they do, the main station isn't an issue and is quite civilised.

I suppose you could send Liverpool-Norwich via Victoria and Denton, though the people of Warrington would be unhappy at losing their other fast Manchester train and train beyond Manchester, and there might not be room on Chat Moss for it.

do a significant number of people travel on the EMT/TPE (from Sheffield) through Manchester or do most get off to be replaced by manc-l'pool passengers? so would many passengers be inconvenienced by terminating these trains at Picc?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Manchester Piccadilly. Used to be alright but the new red box system with petty jobsworths literally yelling at passengers on P13/14 is a truly awful experience that should not exist in this day and age.

Wins hands down on unfriendliness. It really is an unpleasant experience waiting for a train on P14 now. Whoever came up with that needs sacking. I don’t blame the people doing the job, they’re just following instructions with probably about 23 seconds of training, but the concept is a disgrace.

 

[coppercapped]

I am going to say Reading.
In winter its an inhospitable place
The bridge over the tracks is cold - I really feel for the the poor people who have to man the catering outlets up there. No attempt to make it even slightly weatherproof.
and the canopy sweeps up to cover the escalators so unless there is no wind, the platforms there are wet, as are the escalators.

All these 'cons' are true!

But on the 'pro' side the extra platforms and widened circulation spaces have dramatically reduced the crush that used to exist. Having more platforms has also made the platform allocation for different routes and services more consistent - which helps everyone.

The station is not perfect - but, as I have written before, the reason the bridge is open to the elements is because if it were to be enclosed then a whole new raft of fire precautions take effect. These would have been /very/ expensive - additional emergency exits, smoke control, sprinklers and so on. In a perfect world...

 

[Ken H]

Does Blackpool North qualify ?

8 bay platforms so scores 8, so yes!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I like Euston (the concourse at least) as well. A bit of a period classic.

Warm in winter, cool in summer, big, impressive, spacious, doesn't stink of human waste like Paddington does. Not only a period classic, but also quite good at its job.

The Euston scrum is an operating policy issue, not an issue with the design of the station. There are a number of ways it could be reduced or stopped, and it occurs (and is just as bad) in other locations as well, such as a number of Scottish stations, though curiously not Manchester Piccadilly, as well as pretty much all other London termini.

With regard to Reading, the mind boggles as to why they spent so much on bringing it up to the sort of standard of the likes of Bern Hbf, but then left the horrid, run-down old concourse in place rather than replace that with something more in keeping too. Other than that, the only criticism of the design to me is that it's been designed with a lot of places that accumulate visible muck but with seemingly no plan to clean those places, but that's a British disease you get in many places, not just there, and many stations (e.g. Manc Vic) are worse in having muck that *is* accessible but is still not cleaned, e.g. the filthy perspex footbridge.

 

[Journeyman]

Yes, I like Euston (the concourse at least) as well. A bit of a period classic.

I know a lot of people still foam at the mouth about the demolition of the old station, but as far as I can tell, it was a nightmare to operate, however nice it looked. I agree - I quite like a bit of brutalist concrete! The platforms are dingy and grotty, but the concourse is a very nice bit of modernism and generally works pretty well.

 

[Mogster]

Salford Crescent.

Spent many freezing winter evenings there waiting for connections... I know some will argue it’s just an interchange but it now has zero facilities.