Unless you are a large built bloke with a thuggy attitude, then all you have to do when challenged is tell the guard if he doesn't leave you alone you'll smash his face in (or words to that effect), then he'll leave you alone for safety reasons.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
What is the point of : Buying a ticket
- Thread starter nuneatonmark
- Start date
- Status
Unless you are a large built bloke with a thuggy attitude, then all you have to do when challenged is tell the guard if he doesn't leave you alone you'll smash his face in (or words to that effect), then he'll leave you alone for safety reasons.
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Because reality is that many people get away with it again and again and again
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I can understand a lone guard not putting themselves at risk but revenue teams who are only too happy to try and intimidate somebody who comes over as meek and mild tend to 'let off' anybody who looks like trouble.
Of course there's always the chance that the guard will clock your face and discretely arrange for a reception at your destination.
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,810
That only works if travelling one stop to an unmanned station, and even then is a risky approach to take, as one never knows who is on the train (and indeed, who the guard is - some of my colleagues have various martial arts as hobbies). I take it you have never tried it
Had a bloke yesterday refused to show me his ticket as showing it was giving in to the so called power structure'. Better than his first answer 'f#%k off, I'm on the phone, f#@king c#@t. He said he had one, and more money than anyone else on the train. And then he got personal.:roll:
Lovely bloke. Got off the train at Horley. Only mainly annoying thing was, my train up to London, full of plod, that train, plod on at Bridges, but plod on there and then, nope. He seemed the sort that if he had money, it was got though 'odd'* means.
*You used to see them on the first trains up from Brighton, rolls of cash, no tickets. One day, big BTP sting. Also lots of 'substances'. they were dealers heading home. Dumbo's. If they had bought tickets, nice easy trip, but nahhhhh, they are to clever for that.:roll:
Last edited:
ChiefPlanner
Established Member
*You used to see them on the first trains up from Brighton, rolls of cash, no tickets. One day, big BTP sting. Also lots of 'substances'. they were dealers heading home. Dumbo's. If they had bought tickets, nice easy trip, but nahhhhh, they are to clever for that.
______________
Reminds me of a massive excercise we did on the Watfod DC line one Friday evening circa 1997 - matey had no ticket , kicked off , (we had BT about 2 yards away) --so after reasoning to no avail for a single from Camden Road - turned out he was (a) out on licence (b) had just come from Pentonville seeing a mate (c) the bike he had was nicked (d) he threatened me / and the BT (e) He was in possession of class A drugs ....guess where he spent the evening and more ....!
I have only ever travelled twice without a ticket before. It was pretty hideous as the ticket machine can often get vandalised and the station where I get on only has one. So I couldn't collect my tickets (the ticket office apparently "can't" print off your tickets for you), But the conductor already knew (as pointed out on here, there seems to be notice) and saw my email confirmation and was on his way...
This leads me to question what happens if you have no internet connection or haven't screenshotted your confirmation?
This leads me to question what happens if you have no internet connection or haven't screenshotted your confirmation?
I always pick up my advanced internet booked tickets well before traveling, so no problems if the machines aren't working on the day of travel.
I recently did a Wessex/HOE rover combo and got my tickets checked every time between Bristol and Brum, although one person accepted the Wessex out of New St on the way home once when I accidentally put the HOE back in my ticket wallet behind the Wessex after putting it through the barriers at N St.
I recently did a Wessex/HOE rover combo and got my tickets checked every time between Bristol and Brum, although one person accepted the Wessex out of New St on the way home once when I accidentally put the HOE back in my ticket wallet behind the Wessex after putting it through the barriers at N St.
But people will do it because they assume that there isn't an off duty police officer on the train that will step in, or BTP ready to come out and deal.That only works if travelling one stop to an unmanned station, and even then is a risky approach to take, as one never knows who is on the train (and indeed, who the guard is - some of my colleagues have various martial arts as hobbies). I take it you have never tried it
They probably got away with it before, or know others that did. And I'm sure statistically they're right, sadly.
I really feel for front line staff who have to put up with this sort of thing. There's a rising tide of scum in this country that needs dealing with. Easier said than done of course.
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,810
They travel on the same trains, we work the same trains. We get to see them again.
I used to see one male regularly on late trains from a certain station. I once had that kind of response from him. For a long time afterwards, I'd look out the window for him as I pulled in to the station, go and unlock where he was standing (usually with security standing behind him as he was known to be a scrote), and then ask to see his ticket before letting him board. He invariably didn't have one, so I would refuse to let him board. "But it's the last train", "You're being racist", "I'm doing you for harrasment", and my favourite, one cold night, "But it's snowing!". Same answer every time "No ticket, no travel" and I'd wave him goodbye as we pulled out. He never got the message, he never had one. (He eventually ended up with a Railway ASBO and jail).
They might win the battle once or twice, but they have to get lucky every time.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
As I have posted on here previously one chap did that to me when asked for his ticket, refused to show, recused to pay kept playing with his phone. When a BTP officer overheard what was going on he also challenged him and he continued to refuse, then when he left the train at Stalybridge he was arrested. Turned out he was wanted for assault, knife crime, credit card fraud amongst others.
If only he had paid the £3.60..... Instead he was carted off to London courtesy of the Met!
If only he had paid the £3.60..... Instead he was carted off to London courtesy of the Met!
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Depends on the station they are heading to, but it is a game of cat and mouse. Sometimes we have to admit defeat and just let them go, sometimes fate can deliver us a backup plan that even surprises us.
Only a couple of weeks ago a lad got abusive with me because he had no ticket from Scarborough to Seamer and didn't want to pay. As Seamer is an unmanned station there was realistically nothing I could do, however, these people tend to follow patterns so now before I leave Scarborough I look out for him and for a few other well known scrotes who ply the trip regularly. Next time I see him he will be refused travel. Ticket or no ticket!
A young chav lad when I encountered him at Chester Le Street refused to pay even tho he had money and a threat to call police at Newcastle simply gave him a big grin like he relished this option. Unbeknown to me a Northumbria bobby was stood opposite and he flashed his badge and stepped in, lad suddenly paid up but started ranting about how he was going to complain about his treatment! Turned out this lad was on his way to court to do bird, hence his dilligaf attitude.
For his £4 fare out of a £20 he got no notes and loads of change back!
Last edited:
What these anecdotes display (thanks all for them) is that the majority of the 'brave' recalcitrants have other issues against them. I have read that when police stop cars that are not DVLA kosher, they often find the driver is wanted for I don't know what else.
I suspect that arming staff with decent recording devices could play a big part in rolling up all manner of outstanding warrants.
I suspect that arming staff with decent recording devices could play a big part in rolling up all manner of outstanding warrants.
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
All of our Revenue Protection Officers now wear personal CCTV cameras. As soon as they encounter any issues the camera is turned on straight away. You be surprised how quickly any trouble potential miscreants suddenly become fully compliant!
Flamingo
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Apr 2010
- Messages
- 6,810
I am constantly surprised at the number of times I request BTP to find that the individual concerned has an outstanding warrant!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Once, I asked an RPI how the camera evidence stood up in court. "We've no idea" he replied, "Nobody has ever kicked off once we've started filming them!".
Personally, I think they are getting small and cheap enough that they should be on issue to all frontline staff. I'd happily wear one, and have considered getting my own.
I should have added to my previous comment that I was referring more to DOO services with various RPIs. However, said scrotes will come unstuck when RPIs work in a group (or even with police assistance). But if RPIs are working alone, they probably do 'win' more often than they lose.
I think it's the way forward. I'd recommend every motorist gets a dashcam for the same reasons.
Sadly, we seem to live in a time where 'no pictures, didn't happen' is like a get out of jail card.
I also think it's not going to be long until delivery drivers, heating engineers and mechanics will decide to equip themselves with cameras to avoid false accusations about not knocking on a door, venturing in to other rooms to steal property, or trying to rip off a customer.
One day you'll have EVERYONE recording everyone else! Heck, why not have all rail staff with cameras to record every conversation!
Last edited:
Or a gun and a license to kill
One step at a time!
Why do you say "a rising tide"? Do you have statistics to back that up?
People seem more aware of their rights, but not responsibilities. People also get increasingly angry if anyone dares point out their mistakes or a lack of consideration for others.
Getting away with things, and getting support from others when anyone dares take action (how dare they? haven't they got better things to do?) just compounds the situation.
Getting away with things, and getting support from others when anyone dares take action (how dare they? haven't they got better things to do?) just compounds the situation.
I remember being told by my teachers at school that my generation was the worst to date (which is a really horrible to thing to tell young children, when you think about it). I guess they were told the same by their teachers, and so on in to antiquity. Read this quote from Socrates (469–399 B.C.): "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." (http://www.bartleby.com/73/195.html)
You are not the first to think these things about your era. Please show statistics if you want them to be believed.
Last edited:
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
I totally agree with you. I can't chastise my own kids without getting into an argument with my wife over what's right and wrong, being 10 years younger and comp educated against my (admittedly useless) private scholarship means we have significantly different ideas and she all to often throws the human rights argument at me!
However when a police officer once made virtually the same statement to me a couple of years ago and that he added the decline seems to have occured in a very short space of time goes to show it is being noticed and felt. Understanding of the Rights should be encouraged, (eg I jave the right to a peaceful existence) but so should the responsibilities tied in with those rights (I.e so does my next door neighbour!) Sadly too many individuals of certain stereotypes are more bothered about their rights and entitlements and the PC brigade merely encourage them!
Probably just a general observation, and one that I wouldn't disagree with!
Good on you (and Flamingo) - I take my hat off to you and your colleagues - the restraint that you must have to show is admirable. Although not in a railway environment, I had to deal with a serious altercation with a customer a few years ago and it wasn't pleasant, but I was shocked at the language used towards Sarahj as quoted above.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Statistics? Don't be silly, the police have all but given up on low level crime and anti-social behaviour. There's more traffic on the roads today than there was in 1985, and the trains are a lot busier, but I don't need statistics to help tell me that.
And who mentioned children?
Those four words sum up your argument more perfectly than I ever could!
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
Err.... I think the observations of several posters on here, including myself, painting a very similar picture despite being in very different parts of the countrye evidently says a lot more than mere statistics. Evidence, as in peoples experiences, is hard facts. Statistics merely suggest trends and but can be manipulated and misinterpreted.
Hardwired human cognitive biases aren't going anywhere soon.
http://io9.gizmodo.com/5974468/the-most-common-cognitive-biases-that-prevent-you-from-being-rational
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
- Status