What might a Boxing Day Service look like?

[6Gman]

A thread to ponder what a Boxing Day service might look like - NOT to debate the rights and wrongs of working that day/ contracts/ family life/ religious affiliations/ hangovers etc etc

Having been involved in the LM Boxing Day service of the late 70s, and having seen how well used it was (Full & Standing) even in a time when most shops didn't open on that date my suggestion for what was once called the LMR would be:

1. Urban local services to be specced by the local authorities of Manchester, Merseyside, W Midlands etc

2. Hourly Euston-New Street
3. Hourly Euston- Manchester
4. Hourly Euston-Liverpool/ Carlisle (ext to Glasgow if Scotland so wishes!)
3 & 4 to pick up the various intermediate stops - M Keynes, Rugby, Nuneaton, Stafford
5. Hourly Brum-Liverpool
6. Hourly Brum-Manchester (via Stoke)

IF Merseyrail/ and or Northern are running into Chester, then an Hourly Crewe-Chester shuttle

Possibly rail-replacement buses Crewe/Chester-North Wales; Preston-Blackpool etc

The above would provide a pretty effective service to a pretty high %age of the population, without requiring huge numbers of traincrew, signalling or station staff.

Add in basic Cross Country services e.g. Hourly Newcastle-Plymouth etc and most people could get to most places.

Clearly, where there is large-scale engineering then some serious 'tweaking' would be necessary.

Advance bookings/reservations for long-distance services would be very, very advisable - perhaps compulsory? Certainly compulsory for any long-distance bus services!

Comments invited.

 

[bluenoxid]

My views are that there should be a premium on services provided and I would like to see some of this used to subsidise the costs but also to contribute to either direct and very apparent rail investment or charity.

In the North East, with Tyne and Wear Metro and the buses, I don't think there are many calls for additional trains but an hourly service on the mainline ECML (calling virtually everywhere) would be a nice to have.

Additional services.

Well we have buses running to M'boro and Hexham. Carlisle would be nice as would M'boro but I would encourage any service via Sunderland to either go to Saltburn, Darlington or onwards towards York.

The problem is line closures. There is no point providing half a service and trying to connect it up. It just won't work.

 

[radamfi]

Sunday service would be easy to understand, and for compatibility with TfL buses and tubes (strike permitting). Of course, a British Sunday service is still worse that the Sunday service they get in most of Europe on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

 

[Goatboy]

My views are that there should be a premium on services provided

Like there is a premium on fuel purchased on boxing day? Or goods in stores? Or roads used?

 

[6Gman]

Sunday service would be easy to understand, and for compatibility with TfL buses and tubes (strike permitting). Of course, a British Sunday service is still worse that the Sunday service they get in most of Europe on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

I think the problem with a Sunday Service on long-distance services would be that it would be excessive.

 

[radamfi]

I think the problem with a Sunday Service on long-distance services would be that it would be excessive.

What makes you think it would be excessive? Lack of demand or lack of willingness to get rail staff to work?

 

[313103]

I do not travel on either days and never had (apart from 2004/05 when i was holiday in Jamaica and went to the beach), so i couldnt possibly say what kind of service should be run.

I think that if London Overground had there way it would run a Saturday service but start later at around 06.30. That would mean a service patten of a train every ten or so minutes between trains.

 

[tsr]

I will speak for the area with which I am most familiar. I would suggest the following from 0800 to 2000, if a reasonably full service were deemed necessary:

Hourly:

London Victoria - Brighton (CLJ, ECR, RDH and then all stations South of GTW)
London Bridge - Horsham (all stations PUR to HRH)
London Bridge - Tattenham Corner & Caterham (all stations NXG to ECR)
Reading - Gatwick Airport (all stations East of Wokingham)
Watford Junction - East Croydon
Brighton - Lewes (extended to Seaford every second hour)
Brighton - Havant (all stations)
London Bridge - Epsom via West Croydon
London Bridge - Sutton via Mitcham Junction
Outer SLL

Two-hourly:

London Victoria - Portsmouth Harbour (alternating hourly with the service below, to create an hourly frequency as far as possible; ending earlier in the Northbound direction)
London Victoria - Southampton Central (alternating with the service above; ending earlier in both directions)
The above would call at all stations from Horsham to Barnham, in addition to the usual weekday scheduled stops.
Redhill - Tonbridge (starting later)
Dorking Main - Horsham (starting later)
Brighton - Ashford Int. (all stations, where practical to serve)
Plus East Croydon to both routes South of Oxted (alternating hourly)

 

[imagination]

For FGW:
hourly service London-Oxford calling Ealing, Southall (only if no Heathrow connect), Hayes, West Drayton, Slough, Maidenhead, all stops to Didcot then Oxford.
hourly service London-Bristol Temple Meads calling Reading, Didcot, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath, Bristol Temple Meads, extended alternate hours to Bristol Parkway, Newport and Cardiff Central. Possibly one service a day extended from Cardiff to Swansea and from Bristol to Exeter or even Plymouth - though this would depend on whether or not you would need a whole load more staff for the signalling etc (I don't know much about how this works) - if so then these extensions wouldn't be worth it.

The trains would be timed so that anyone travelling between London and Oxford could conveniently use the fast train from London to Didcot.

If there was no SWT service from Basingstoke to London, then a FGW service Basingstoke - Reading connecting in with the fast train at Reading would also be appropriate.

Possibly also a service running Gatwick - Redhill - Dorking - Guildford - North Camp - Wokingham - Reading, though I don't know how much demand for this there would be with far fewer connections available at Reading than usual.

 

[6Gman]

What makes you think it would be excessive? Lack of demand or lack of willingness to get rail staff to work?

Lack of demand, though lack of traincrew might also be a problem.

 

[richw]

Interestingly even in Cornwall all the shops are open except the medium sized supermarkets today, yet there was no public transport what so ever!

 

[317666]

I think a two-hourly service on most routes would be sufficient (obviously apart from those which are even less frequent normally such as the Heart of Wales).

 

[bicbasher]

In my area.

Southern:

London Bridge to Tattenham Corner - 2tph all stations on the Sydenham slow, based on the Sunday timetable but finishes at Christmas Eve times.

London Overground:

2tph Highbury & Islington to Crystal Palace, Dalston Junction to West Croydon, increasing to 4tph during shopping hours, reducing to 2tph on both branches finishing at Christmas Eve times.

 

[anthony263]

Swansea - Cardiff - 2 hourly swanline service calling at all stations between Swansea & Bridgend with a 2 hourly Maesteg - Cardiff service on alternative hours to the swanline services.

There should at least be an hourly service between Barry/Penarth - Cardiff - Pontypridd/Caerphilly with a limited number of services continuing to Rhymney, Merthyr Tydfil etc. Start times should be around 08:15 and finishing around 18:15



There should also be an hourly service shuttling between Cardiff Central & Bath spa calling at all stations with the exception to Pilling running from 07:30 til 19:30

There maybe demand for a limited service between Weston Super Mare and Bristol Parkway say operating between 08:30 & 18:30

 

[nicobobinus]

For Greater Anglia on the West Anglia side:

Hourly Liverpool Street - Enfield Town all stations via Seven Sisters
Hourly Liverpool Street - Cambridge calling at Seven Sisters, Edmonton Green, Southbury loop stations, Cheshunt, Broxbourne, Harlow Town and all stations. Possibly supplemented by an hourly faster variant via Tottenham Hale, as LST - Cambridge would be take 90+ minutes on this service.
Half hourly to Stansted Airport calling at Tottenham Hale, alternate Broxbourne/Harlow and same trains alternate Bishops Stortford/S Mountfitchet.
Hourly Liverpool Street - Chingford calling at Hackney Downs and all stations.
Hourly 0900-1900 Stratford - Herford East calling Tottenham Hale, Ponders End and all stations.

c2c:

Hourly Fenchurch - Shoebury all stations via Laindon.
Hourly Fenchurch - Southend Central via Chafford Hundred and Grays. Possibly enhanced service for Lakeside traffic during the day.
Hourly Barking - Grays shuttle via Purfleet.

First Capital Connect, Great Northern side:

Hourly King's Cross - Welwyn all stations via New Barnet
Hourly King's Cross - Stevenage via Hertford North
Hourly King's Cross - Peterborough calling Finsbury Park, Potters Bar, Hatfield, Welwyn and all stations.
Hourly King's Cross - Cambridge calling Finsbury Park, Stevenage and all stations. Possibly two-hourly onto Ely.

 

[PHILIPE]

Of course, you would have to run it past the Unions first and I feel sure they would demand an excessive enhancement of pay to co-operate making services a loss maker. It's harder to replace something which once existed and has been taken away

 

[barrykas]

Obvious one for Chiltern land:

Half hourly Marylebone - Bicester North from 8am to 9pm, calling Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe and Princes Risborough, to cater for Bicester Village shoppers. Preferably LHCS, with the DVT being used for storage.

Probably hourly Marylebone - Birmingham, fast to Bicester (pick up only Northbound, set down only Southbound) and Marylebone - Aylesbury via Amersham.

 

[jon0844]

My wife is Swedish (where Christmas is celebrated on Christmas Eve) but services run throughout. Trains, buses, coaches - the lot. Often in some rather testing weather conditions.

I have no idea how powerful their unions are or if it has always been that way, but people can still get about to travel and see family, or tourists to get around when staying there for the holidays.

I wonder if they have rail forums that laugh at us for shutting down so many things despite having a much larger population, which is a hugely diverse population with many people not even celebrating Christmas!

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Of course, you would have to run it past the Unions first and I feel sure they would demand an excessive enhancement of pay to co-operate making services a loss maker. It's harder to replace something which once existed and has been taken away

They'd probably be loss making even without the unions, if there was money to be made it would already be happening

 

[imagination]

Obvious one for Chiltern land:

Half hourly Marylebone - Bicester North from 8am to 9pm, calling Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe and Princes Risborough, to cater for Bicester Village shoppers. Preferably LHCS, with the DVT being used for storage.

Probably hourly Marylebone - Birmingham, fast to Bicester (pick up only Northbound, set down only Southbound) and Marylebone - Aylesbury via Amersham.

Do you honestly think there would be that much demand?

I would have said hourly Marylebone to Bicester, and no service at all between Bicester and Banbury, unless the WCML was closed. If you want to connect the service to other lines, have it run to Oxford instead (by next boxing day this should be in operation).

 

[richw]

I think in general a Sunday service would be most appropriate in most areas having thought about this. A majority of retailers were operating Sunday hours, except Next who opened at 5am in the majority of places. A friend who is employed by Next was disciplined for turning up to work unfit to work, she was simply tired, and had a lack of sleep due to being required to report to start at 0430am this morning.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I think in general a Sunday service would be most appropriate in most areas having thought about this. A majority of retailers were operating Sunday hours, except Next who opened at 5am in the majority of places. A friend who is employed by Next was disciplined for turning up to work unfit to work, she was simply tired, and had a lack of sleep due to being required to report to start at 0430am this morning.

That's insane. Why would anyone want to go shopping in Next at 5am?

The only stuff that's ever on sale is the stuff that no-one wanted before Christmas. I'm sure some stores might have designer handbags and that, but only a very limited supply and purely to get people through the doors and buy other stuff when their limited chance of getting one has gone.

 

[richw]

The last next sale I went to was selling the previous seasons unsold left overs, nothing of interest to me whatsoever, but I hear they are very popular and busy events.

 

[causton]

In the store I work in we had nothing that wasn't discounted on Christmas Eve (the price change happened on the 23rd/24th) but it was busy - we smashed the prediction! I think a lot of people were desperate to spend their Christmas money... and we had a lot fewer returns than we were expecting! We didn't have a Boxing Day sale but our stuff is pretty much discounted (or "discounted") all year round so people flood in anyway!

Also, I have a Choice store near me, which is basically the Next sale all year round - they sell last season's stuff for cheaper than the Next sale does and you can pick up some good deals from ex-corporate and ex-Next clothing. For example, last season's suits were about £20 for jacket and trousers and £5 or so for most polo shirts (they do sell some current season non-reduced stock but not much)

 

[richw]

In the store I work in we had nothing that wasn't discounted on Christmas Eve (the price change happened on the 23rd/24th) but it was busy - we smashed the prediction! I think a lot of people were desperate to spend their Christmas money... and we had a lot fewer returns than we were expecting! We didn't have a Boxing Day sale but our stuff is pretty much discounted (or "discounted") all year round so people flood in anyway!

Also, I have a Choice store near me, which is basically the Next sale all year round - they sell last season's stuff for cheaper than the Next sale does and you can pick up some good deals from ex-corporate and ex-Next clothing. For example, last season's suits were about £20 for jacket and trousers and £5 or so for most polo shirts (they do sell some current season non-reduced stock but not much)

and I still dont know the difference between this season and last. Obviously jumpers against shorts and T Shirts etc, but suits, trainers etc I wouldnt know the difference other than the 50-70% reduction in Price/

 

[Andyjs247]

Do you honestly think there would be that much demand?

I would have said hourly Marylebone to Bicester, and no service at all between Bicester and Banbury, unless the WCML was closed. If you want to connect the service to other lines, have it run to Oxford instead (by next boxing day this should be in operation).

Well put it another way, approx. 40,000 people visited Bicester Village on Boxing Day 2012. This is up from 30,000 who visited in 2011 (which in itself is equivalent to the total population of Bicester). People again abandoning cars at the side of the A41 as there was not enough spaces to park. Congestion stretching back to the M40 and A34.

And only last week Cherwell District Council approved a further expansion of Bicester Village on the site of the current Tesco supermarket which would be demolished to make way for 28 new shops - a 23.8% expansion. Incidentally Bicester Village were urging people *not* to travel until the 27th December when of course trains were running again.

Personally speaking, the rebuilt Bicester Town station and Evergreen 3 service linking Oxford and Marylebone can't come soon enough. New service is scheduled for 2015, hopefully there's scope to run trains on Boxing Day as the demand is certainly there.

 

[Flamingo]

I hate to burst the bubble of all those who think that the lack of service it's down to greedy staff demanding excessive payments.

Staffing costs are a minimal part of running any Inter-City service. Paying Network Rail is the biggest cost, followed by fuel. I'll cover the entire on-train wages in most busy weekend journeys with the First Class upgrades alone.

Getting staff to agree to work is going to be the big hurdle, and it's not just a Driver and Guard, there are dispatch staff, other station staff, catering staff, cleaners, ticket offices, gate-line, station shops, the list goes on.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I was out and about on Boxingday and have to say in Edinburgh the buses etc that were running were well used and there was full loads on Citylinks 900 Edinburgh Glasgow coach and even the fast Inverness service I caught loaded well throughout. The big one north of the border is New Year and I had huge problems getting home from work new years day when down south trains etc opperate. Jan 2nd aint much better with a modified Sunday service on many bus and rail services and none at all on others. In short, madness!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Obvious one for Chiltern land:

Half hourly Marylebone - Bicester North from 8am to 9pm, calling Gerrards Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe and Princes Risborough, to cater for Bicester Village shoppers. Preferably LHCS, with the DVT being used for storage.

Probably hourly Marylebone - Birmingham, fast to Bicester (pick up only Northbound, set down only Southbound) and Marylebone - Aylesbury via Amersham.

The Bicester shuttle very nearly happened in 2011. Wont be a loco though.

With a 168 you can work DOO. You could run an hourly shuttle for most of the day with half a dozen drivers and one signal box open. No need to open the line north of Aynho. No need to open the signal boxes at Banbury. No need to ferry in a guard from Banbury, Birmingham (or Stourbridge) to work on the loco hauled rake.

 

[QJ]

what a Boxing Day service might look like

A rail replacement bus.