What new routes could be opened up due to the introduction of East West rail, and could open axis operators be involved?

[The Planner]

Fine, I'm open to reasonable explanations of why it cannot be done.

Of course the key difference is the WCML will have more paths in future.

As I said prior, now that 2A has been binned, it won't.

 

[Fermiboson]

I felt that there was an opportunity for Bristol, Cardiff and Reading to come into the mix. I’m sure a few Milton Keynes links wouldn’t be such a crime, never mind direct Bristol/Cardiff to Oxford?

Same perhaps applies to some extent to Ipswich (and maybe Colchester?) and Norwich.

With a mix of fast (further reaching) and slow (largely internal to EWR) services, I think the route could have good potential.

Call me crazy, idiotic or whatever but how about this

1tph Bristol to Milton Keynes FAST
1tp2h Cardiff to Norwich FAST
1tp2h Cardiff to Ipswich (Colchester?) FAST
1tph Reading to Milton Keynes SEMIFAST
1tph Reading to Cambridge SEMIFAST
1tph Aylesbury (or further) to Milton Keynes SEMIFAST
1tph Aylesbury (or further) to Cambridge SEMIFAST
1tp2h Reading to Banbury SLOW
1tp2h Reading to Bicester Village SLOW
1tph Milton Keynes to Bedford SLOW

No comment on the rest - but why Reading to Bicester? The current GWR stopper covers virtually the same route. Also I’m not sure if Oxford - Bicester can accommodate 10+ tph, or the Marston Vale can do 4tph in its current state. One also has to consider potential plans to extend to Cowley.

 

[The Planner]

I felt that there was an opportunity for Bristol, Cardiff and Reading to come into the mix. I’m sure a few Milton Keynes links wouldn’t be such a crime, never mind direct Bristol/Cardiff to Oxford?

Same perhaps applies to some extent to Ipswich (and maybe Colchester?) and Norwich.

With a mix of fast (further reaching) and slow (largely internal to EWR) services, I think the route could have good potential.

Call me crazy, idiotic or whatever but how about this

1tph Bristol to Milton Keynes FAST
1tp2h Cardiff to Norwich FAST
1tp2h Cardiff to Ipswich (Colchester?) FAST
1tph Reading to Milton Keynes SEMIFAST
1tph Reading to Cambridge SEMIFAST
1tph Aylesbury (or further) to Milton Keynes SEMIFAST
1tph Aylesbury (or further) to Cambridge SEMIFAST
1tp2h Reading to Banbury SLOW
1tp2h Reading to Bicester Village SLOW
1tph Milton Keynes to Bedford SLOW

How many of these are incorporating proposed E-W trains (as in Oxford starters/terminators)? You have proposed 4.5 tph Oxford to Bletchley there. Oxford North will need its flyover if they are not Oxford starters.

 

[HST43257]

No comment on the rest - but why Reading to Bicester? The current GWR stopper covers virtually the same route. Also I’m not sure if Oxford - Bicester can accommodate 10+ tph, or the Marston Vale can do 4tph in its current state. One also has to consider potential plans to extend to Cowley.

How many of these are incorporating proposed E-W trains (as in Oxford starters/terminators)? You have proposed 4.5 tph Oxford to Bletchley there. Oxford North will need its flyover if they are not Oxford starters.

I should’ve made it clear. Some of these replace current services, like GWR locals around Didcot and Banbury being replaced by the Reading slow services (pending electrification one day hopefully).

Its a good point regarding Oxford North. Perhaps Cardiff can go without an EWR link and Reading can go down to 1tph? 2tph less crossing the junction. Not sure which through links would remain regarding Milton Keynes/Norwich/Ipswich. What real market might there be from Anglia?

 

[JonathanH]

What real market might there be from Anglia?

A very limited one.

There really isn't any sensible reason to put a load of services reliant on awkward junctions, difficult pathing, platform capacity and similar constraints onto a new railway line, with infrastructure designed for 'internal' services.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Ask why it isn't being done now? I doubt you would get the extra paths on the BML and across West London anyway. I also doubt there is demand for it.

Years ago in the SRA days there was a National Timetable Conference where the operators met to have official discussions on their planned bids for the next year and to do some very useful networking - (some of the contributors here would have loved it) , anyway , it was held in Brighton one year and a very decent place to have such a conclave. There was always a good dinner and speeches, one welcomed by the then zone director who launched his speech with "welcome to Brighton , terminus of one of Britain's most oversold railways"

These meetings often attracted or or two potential open access operators , one (not at Brighton) , attracted some chap who broadly sketched out a plan for a Glasgow to Dover / Plymouth overnight motorail hauled by pairs of 37's via the S&C with a call at Skipton to pick up freshly baked bread. An unique selling point that. Nothing came of it. (but he was listened to politely)

 

[zwk500]

Fine, I'm open to reasonable explanations of why it cannot be done.

Of course the key difference is the WCML will have more paths in future.

The Brighton Line won't, and having paths weaving across at Balham isn't going to help performance. I used to live in MK and my parents live on the Sussex Coast. I used the WLL exactly once, and that was when my journey ended at Clapham Junction. There were a few people on from MK to Shepherd's Bush, but the overwhelming majority of passengers joined and alighted between Wembley Central and Clapham Junction.
My normal route was to use the LNR Ledburn crossers to Euston, then either tube to Victoria for direct train to the Coastway or walk to St Pancras for Thameslink to Brighton Line depending on which parent I was visiting. At 2tph minimum all legs interchanges were rarely an issue.

 

[swt_passenger]

EWR are only proposing a maximum of 3 tph each way on the Bletchley to Bedford section to meet anticipated demand. Thats just the one all stations stopper and two faster services. On that basis, some of the proposals for multiple routes all over East Anglia seem way off the mark.

 

[HST43257]

EWR are only proposing a maximum of 3 tph each way on the Bletchley to Bedford section to meet anticipated demand. Thats just the one all stations stopper and two faster services. On that basis, some of the proposals for multiple routes all over East Anglia seem way off the mark.

I mean, 2tph is a decent bit to work with for services into East Anglia

 

[The Planner]

Years ago in the SRA days there was a National Timetable Conference where the operators met to have official discussions on their planned bids for the next year and to do some very useful networking - (some of the contributors here would have loved it) , anyway , it was held in Brighton one year and a very decent place to have such a conclave. There was always a good dinner and speeches, one welcomed by the then zone director who launched his speech with "welcome to Brighton , terminus of one of Britain's most oversold railways"

These meetings often attracted or or two potential open access operators , one (not at Brighton) , attracted some chap who broadly sketched out a plan for a Glasgow to Dover / Plymouth overnight motorail hauled by pairs of 37's via the S&C with a call at Skipton to pick up freshly baked bread. An unique selling point that. Nothing came of it. (but he was listened to politely)

Going back a bit that, last conferemce was 2007 or 8 wasnt it?

 

[JamesRowden]

It might be fun to travel on a merger of of the following services plus the Swindon - Didcot section required to link them:

• Westbury - Swindon stopping service
• Didcot - Oxford stopping service
• Oxford - Milton Keynes EWR service

 

[Fermiboson]

Such a service would suffer from the similar issue that nobody would ever ride it from one end to the other. I suspect Westbury to MK may be faster via London than via such a local stopper. If there is any westward EWR extension, it should probably run fast to either Reading or Bristol.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Going back a bit that, last conferemce was 2007 or 8 wasnt it?

About that - as the DfT of the time - took a hearty dislike to all those TOC's talking to each other , and of course there were changes within the train planning structures at Network Rail coming up. A shame really -the first one was at Manchester Airport , (2000 ?) a bit stilted due to the commercial playbook of the time so there was very little full and open discussions which came later , and the last was at Bristol (2 days only) in about 2008. Particularly good ones were Blackpool , Brighton and Torquay.

Lots of wicket rolling , "off the record discussions" etc done - which appeared in timetables down the road. (also a few challenging debates too , surprisingly to do with West Coast ! )

 

[JamesRowden]

Such a service would suffer from the similar issue that nobody would ever ride it from one end to the other. I suspect Westbury to MK may be faster via London than via such a local stopper. If there is any westward EWR extension, it should probably run fast to either Reading or Bristol.

Westbury - Swindon 42 minutes
Swindon - Didcot 18 mintues (my estimate for 100mph diesel stock)
Didcot - Oxford 19 minutes
Oxford - Milton Keynes 44 minutes

So about 135 minutes should be possible.

A 7 minute connection at Reading produces an 81 minute Westbury to Oxford journey time at the moment which is slightly faster for that section of the journey, but there would then be the connection time at Oxford for onward travel towards Milton Keynes.

The journey via London between Westbury and Milton Keynes is longer than my estimate for my hypothetical service.

There is also all the intermediate journeys and connections that such a service would provide, plus freeing up some capacity on London services.

But hey, this speculation is just a bit of fun.