What next for class 320s?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Robinson, 14 Sep 2010.

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  1. Robinson

    Robinson Member

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    I had been under the impression that the class 320s were set to be moved onto the Cathcart Circle in December to replace the 314s, due to their inability to operate at the new 80mph line speeds on Airdrie-Bathgate. I've now heard that they are being regeared for 90mph and various reports that suggest that some units will be operated on the Argyle line (were they not originally prevented from running this line when they started running in the first place). If they're being upgraded to 90mph running why not leave them on Airdrie-Bathgate?
     
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  3. class156

    class156 Member

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    There isn't enough 320s to cover the doubling up of servicies at peak times, that and it looks good for Transport Scotland using the 334s on the Airdrie to Bathgate line.
     
  4. p.d87

    p.d87 Member

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    Does anyone know how many 334's are required in daily use on the A2B yet or is it still too early to see diagramms?
     
  5. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    It is actually a simple upgrade, fitting the bogies with the "missing" dampers
    That is the only reason why the units were limited to 75mph

    Each unit will also be sent to Wabtec Doncaster for a full internal overhaul, including fitting of toilet

    They cannot be used on Airdrie - Bathgate, like many other EMUs, as they are not fitted with on-train platform cameras / the platforms do not have CCTV / mirrors for the driver
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Initially 28 will be required, with 2 operational spare and 2 out of use
    If demand is higher than expected then the 2 operational spares will see use, resulting in every second set being 6 cars
     
    Last edited: 14 Sep 2010
  6. p.d87

    p.d87 Member

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    so what will the other 8 units be doing the springburns and some argyle line?
     
  7. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    From what I understand of Scotrail's cascade plan, the additional 8 334s will be moved gradually onto the new route as the cascade unfolds. I think it allows some degree of flexibility as the 320s go off to get refurbished and the 380s start to enter service.

    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    OK, I've worked out some more with some information found on Scot-rail.co.uk.

    There are to be 36 Class 334 diagrams in service from December (including 2 operational spares), all on the North Clyde Line & through to Edinburgh via Bathgate. If rail-britain's number of 28 is for Airdrie-Bathgate only, that leaves 6 units for Springburn and Airdrie terminators. The remainder (at least 7 diagrams by my reckoning) will be operated by 320s.

    There will be 15 Class 318 units on the Argyle line, rising to 18 in April once the last of the 380s enter service. I don't know how many Argyle Line diagrams there needs to be. Based on the current timetable, I would estimate 24 diagrams (again, diagrams thanks to Scot-rail.co.uk). So you'd need at least another 9 units, these being Class 320s, with perhaps some more longer trains as well (which seem to be needed on the Argyle Line). Of course, over the next few months, you're going to see longer trains on this line to combat overcrowding.

    There are 20 Class 320 diagrams, split between North Clyde and Argyle duties. So, if at least 9 are for Argyle, at least 7 are for North Clyde, that leaves four units as operational spares or for strengthening.

    Many of these calculations are made by myself, and consequently may be catastrophically wrong! (EDIT: They are pretty catastrophically wrong!)
     
    Last edited: 15 Sep 2010
  8. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    I can't comment on me123's figures, but I found that a very interesting post, showing what may be possible.

    I know it's too early to talk of strenthening EMUs on all the Bathgate services, but good to see the logic behind the stock rotation
     
  9. chic

    chic Member

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    Interesting post by me123. I think it'll be interesting to see how it works out.

    The introduction of the 380's before the timetable change will be interesting to see how that works for a presumably small number of 334's getting put in the new scotrail colour scheme and also for the 320's proposed improvements.

    I'm curious as to how many blue 334's will be ready for the A2B opening and how the 320 programme works out.
     
  10. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    I only quoted the diagrams for the Airdrie / Edinburgh via Airdrie diagrams, as that was the question
    As previous, this is likely to change as the final timetable is still awaiting approval (closed 13 September)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    On 18 October two Class 380s commence on Glasgow - Ayr, releasing two Class 334 for driver training purposes between Yoker and Edinburgh via Airdrie (due to commence on 18 October, subject to electrification being completed)
    By the following week this will increase to six Class 380s in service
    One Class 334 will then be revinyled into "spotrail", and by the first week of December at least eight should be completed
    The other Class 334s will become spare, allowing the Class 320s to be released from public service

    The remaining Class 320 internal improvements will not commence until October
     
    Last edited: 15 Sep 2010
  11. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    EDIT: It appears that some of my calculations above are catastrophically wrong, so don't take it as gospel!

    Some of it is right, but the bits I've worked out myself appear to be wrong... we shall see.
     
  12. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    I also think someone at FSR is expecting a vast increase in passengers, or an increase in unreliability...
    There will be two Class 334s spare and once all the Class 380s are delivered there will be a further three of those spare
     
  13. alex57601

    alex57601 Member

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    Perhaps they were accepted as spare after the cancellation of GARL has meant there will be a few additional Class 380s available for other duties. Another thing to bear in mind also is that in a few years time in 2014, all the free units available will be needed for the Commonwealth Games, as well as for additional capacity in the meantime.
     
  14. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    Well, we do have more than we need (or, at least, we will do come December). But there's a huge demand on the existing routes either side of the Airdrie-Bathgate line (and that's before you consider the additional demand created by the new line over the coming years). Then, you've got plenty of services around Glasgow that really do need lengthening, so perhaps in the medium-term we'll see plenty of additional 6 car sets around the network (particularly on the Argyle Line). As demand for rail travel increases, I think these spare units will see use before we know it!

    I would imagine that, for now, they're probably being safe in case there's huge reliability problems with the 380s, as there so often are with new trains. Having a good few units sitting spare is always handy, and I imagine that spare 334s have the potential to be called up to just about any electric route, at least for the first few months anyway if things really do start to fail everywhere (although they obviously won't be doing this routinely).
     
  15. CarterUSM

    CarterUSM Established Member

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    Wasn't there a couple of 334's added to the original order of the time due to the problems getting them into service in the first place? It is very good having a surplus however unusual though.
     
  16. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    Are you sure you're not thinking of the Class 170s, where SPT was given these as compensation
    As far as I can see the original order for Class 334s never changed
     
  17. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    According to Wikipedia, they ordered 38, but got 2 more as a "goodwill gesture". However, it's an unreferenced statement.
     
  18. class156

    class156 Member

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    Wikipedia says here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_334

     
  19. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    But there is no reference
     
  20. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    I'll check with SPT (RPT), but I think I know what the answer will be; order for 40 but due to late entry compensation was in the form of Class 170 units
     
  21. p.d87

    p.d87 Member

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    i dont understand the compensation deals. surely if it was alsthom who had to then why give a bombardier fleet of trains as a good will gesture?
     
  22. The_Stig

    The_Stig Member

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    The 380's are to receive their exams during the day. One or two will be for that whilst the extra will be for running faults or used to strengthen services.

    The 334's mainly receive their exams during the day also, however, there are still occasional exams at night.
     
  23. rail-britain

    rail-britain Established Member

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    The 40 EMUs had already been delivered and were severely delayed into service
    The compensation was agreed with the RoSCo by the DoT (as it was at the time), and the options were for two EMUs or two DMUs
    As those EMUs would be non-standard it was agreed they should be DMUs
    These arrived as 170470 and 170471
     
  24. Damien1986

    Damien1986 Member

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    The scot-rail.co.uk website says it will be publishing the diagrams that will be used in the next timetable and was wondering if anyone had an idea that when when they issue the class 320 diagrams will they inlude the Argyle Line services they will be utilised on?
     
  25. 317 forever

    317 forever Member

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    There is also the question of what trains will replace class 322 on the North Berwick line? I thought class 334s would be taking over, but class 320s could be suitable.
     
  26. CarterUSM

    CarterUSM Established Member

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    380's are replacing the 322's. I thought it was common knowledge!
     
  27. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Indeed that's why the 322s are available to be moved!
     
  28. Pumbaa

    Pumbaa Established Member

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    Blimey this thread is oldddd.
     
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