What services changed and when?

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by MidnightFlyer, 13 Nov 2011.

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  1. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Wikipedia (as much as I hate it) tells me that until the 1980s Arun Valley (that's Horsham-Ford) services used to run via Sutton until they were switched to run via Gatwick Airport. (To be fair I had always wondered why the line designations through Mitcham and after Sutton were known as the Up and Down Portsmouth).

    Anyway, does anyone have any more examples of such service changes, and when they came about?

    Cheers
     
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  3. IanPooleTrains

    IanPooleTrains Established Member

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    One that I can remember is the Cardiff to Birmingham services before Xc took them over, they went via Worcester and the Snow Hill lines up to Smethwick before turning down into Birmingham, late 90s early naughties i believe
     
  4. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    There used to be a lot more variation in services, before things became clockface hourly routes.

    For example the current Norwich Liverpool service ran via Leicester on a large number of journeys, with the eastern terminus of Stansted/ Ipswich and the western terminus of Blackpool.

    These kind of things were all rationalised into one standard service.
     
  5. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    The loss of main line services via Horsham and Sutton was following the Three Bridges resignalling in around 1987 or so - major Southern Central Division re-cast - particularly on giving more services via Gatwick and East Croydon. Excellent article in old "Modern Railways" if you can find it.

    As ever , there were winners and losers.Sutton lost its "fast" main line trains which had buffet cars.
     
  6. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    Someone more knowledgeable of years gone by could confirm this, I'm sure, but I believe that King's Lynn services ran via Harlow until the Stansted Express came along and required its paths, thus switching them across to the Royston route.
     
  7. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

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    The Liverpool-Norwich service has never run via Leicester. It did however run via Loughborough for a while during the early 1990's.

    When sprinters took over from loco hauled trains in 1988 the service on table 49 was basically every 2 hours Norwich-Liverpool, every 2 hours Norwich-Birmingham, every 2 hours Birmingham-Cambridge/Ipswich, every 2 hours Blackpool-Cambridge/Ipswich and a 2 hourly Manchester -Liverpool.

    The following year it the Ipswich/Cambridge-Blackpool ran to Liverpool instead with a 2 hourly Blackpool-Nottingham service added.

    Colchester and Barrow were 2 destinations added and withdrawn over the years.

    During the 1990's the service became the hourly Liverpool-Norwich and Birmingham-Stansted.

    Central Trains combined the Liverpool-Birmingham and Birmingham-Stansted services around 1999 if my memory is correct but the SRA split the route again in 2004(?).

    The extra summer Saturday trains to/from Gt Yarmouth were also run down to zero over the years.

    Hope this helps.
     
  8. ChiefPlanner

    ChiefPlanner Established Member

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    They did in loco hauled days - the prime route Cambridge - London was via Harlow , before electrification went beyond Royston to CGE - complicated history - of course , the flagship journey time is now via Hitchin and the GN - not the GE.
     
  9. Schnellzug

    Schnellzug Established Member

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    before it was Electrified, there wasn't a through service from KX to Cambridge, was there? It was all from Liv St; you had to change at Royston. They even used 86s on it after the line from Bishops Stortford was Electrificated.
     
  10. Gareth Marston

    Gareth Marston Established Member

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    back in Central Trains days there was a Pwllheli to Grimsby service using a 156, and an Aberystwyth to Stansted Airport service. Both went in 2001.

    Wasn't there a loco hauled Scarborough to Llandudno service back in the 80's?

    Euston to Shrewsbury/Aberystwyth
    Euston to Pwllheli (summer Saturdays)

    went in early 90's.
     
  11. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    "Victim" of the many cuts that Central made.

    To do it today would mean:

    • Pwllheli/ Chester - Birmingham
    • Birmingham - Leicester
    • Leicester - Lincoln
    • Lincoln - Grimsby

    Similarly the Manchester Airport - Skegness service would have to be:

    • Manchester Airport - Crewe
    • Crewe - Derby
    • Derby - Nottingham
    • Nottingham - Skegg

    ...to be done today.

    Quite a lot of cross-country cuts.

    A few other cuts to through services in recent years (in Yorkshire)

    • Manchester - Huddersfield - Wakefield
    • Barnsley - Sheffield - London
    • Huddersfield - Sheffield - Lincoln

    (all require a change at the "middle" station nowadays)
     
  12. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    I would give anything (apart from my wife and kids!) to see a train run again between St Pancras and Glasgow via the S & C. Or at least to see the train start at Nottingham as it did in later years. Now that would be something.
     
    Last edited: 13 Nov 2011
  13. Drsatan

    Drsatan Established Member

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    XC's network has been pruned back to such an extent that there are no longer any services to Portsmouth, Ramsgate, Liverpool, Poole, Swansea, Brighton, Swindon, Paddington and Glasgow via the WCML. Quite extraordinary given that until December 2007, about 3-4 trains a day were routed to Brighton.

    Another victim was ATW's daily service from Penzance to Manchester via the Newport avoiding line. I'd have thought such a service could have been transferred to XC too, along with the daily Portsmouth to Liverpool via the Marches line (operated by Wales and West until 2001). Until 2001 and the creation of the Wessex Trains franchise, the majority of Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central services continued beyond Cardiff Central, to Swansea, Tenby, Pembroke Dock or even Barry Island.
     
  14. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    Not strictly true, I'm afraid.
    I remember a "Cambridge Buffet Express" which was roughly every 2 hours, and called at Welwyn Garden City, Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth and Royston, taking about 1.5 hours from King's Cross to Cambridge.

    I think it used to be B.1. hauled in the days of steam and then a Cl.31 diesel.

    There was also an occasional dmu service calling at all stops from Hatfield, taking nearly 2 hours for the journey.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Well remembered!

    IIRC, it ran non-stop Loughborough -Peterborough, and the reason given for this routing was pathing problems through Grantham.

    Interesting that now 99% of the services go via Grantham, and there's an even more intensive service on the EC main line!
     
  15. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Did it include a buffet in the consist? :lol:
     
  16. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    There was also, until about 30 years ago, a Waterloo - Portsmouth via Epsom hourly wasn't there? All go via Woking these days except during engineering diversions.

    So Epsom used to have two different main line services at one time in addition to the more usual suburbans. While on the subject, we must not forget the Waterloo - Horsham service, another long extinct direct service.
     
  17. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    Until sometime in the 1980s, I think, the Leeds- Huddersfield - Manchester - Liverpool services used to go from Stalybridge via Ashton to Manchester Victoria [Exchange originally, until that closed], and then Newton-le-Willows to Liverpool Lime St.

    Then they were diverted to run the present route via Guide Bridge and Manchester Piccadilly/Oxford Rd, then Warrington Central to Lime St.

    Now, because of congestion through Piccadilly, there's talk of diverting them back through Victoria, with reduced journey-times. Hey ho.

    What goes around comes around.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Whatever makes you think that? ;)
     
  18. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Apologies :oops:

    Given the capacity problems on the ECML (IIRC the southbound Norwich service has to cross the northbound ECML twice on flat crossings?) I wonder how long until someone will suggest they divert some back via Loughborough?
     
  19. ChrisCooper

    ChrisCooper Established Member

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    Another service that got chopped in Central Trains days, but like all of them by the SRA and not them, was Lincoln to Coventry. It got cut back to Nottingham when the West Coast work meant that they could not cross on the flat at Nuneaton, and it's MML path was taken by a Leicester to Nottingham service replacing the London-Nottingham slow that's path south of Leicester was taken by the Manchester service. When the Manchester service ended, so did the Leicester-Nottingham service. Another loss was the Nottingham to Birmingham via Leicester, which like some other services was split at Leicester as part of the breakup of Central, leaving Cross Country with an all stops Leicester to Birmingham service. When Leicestershire County Council cut funding for the Ivanhoe service from Leicester to Loughborough, the Nottingham to Birmingham service was also withdrawn and the Lincoln to Nottingham service was extended to Leicester.

    This and many other posts have reminded me of all the places you used to be able to get a train direct to from Loughborough in the past that you now can't. Birmingam, Coventry, Stansted Airport, Liverpool, Manchester, Norwich (more than twice a day in the early morning), etc. The only gain really is that there are now hourly direct trains to Sheffield, when before Turbostars Sheffield service were infrequent and afterwards they became even more infrequent.
     
  20. bicbasher

    bicbasher Established Member

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    London Bridge to Sutton stoppers via Forest Hill was axed in the Summer 2010 timetable as those paths were required for London Overground East London Line journeys, although if I recall there's still an early morning service on the southbound section?

    The paths that were used between Norwood Junction and Sutton are now used for a Victoria to Sutton service via Crystal Palace.
     
  21. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Oh no reason just a feeling I had...
     
  22. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    And when they do, some bright young spark will market it as a new idea and a wonderful way to cut journey times. [Cynical - me? ;)]
     
  23. tbtc

    tbtc Veteran Member

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    Where did the SWT West Croydon services reach?
     
  24. Ivo

    Ivo Established Member

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    Guildford I believe? Couldn't say for certain though :|
     
  25. IanXC

    IanXC Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think this would be great! Maybe a railtour with a couple of Voyagers and some really good pathing!!
     
  26. RichmondCommu

    RichmondCommu Established Member

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    Or given that EMT have a HST going spare (rented out to the East Coast) a seats only Friday night train from London to Glasgow might prove popular. There are a lot of people who would use this in preference to the bus if the pricing policy was sensible.
     
  27. SignalEngineer

    SignalEngineer Member

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    If I'm not mistaken, Adlington Chord was built a few years ago to allow trains to run back north from Grantham & turn east on the line over ECML & eliminate need to cross on the flat.
     
  28. TheBigD

    TheBigD Member

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    It does indeed cross the ECML on the flat twice.

    It's unlikely to go via Loughborough in the immediate future as there aren't the paths available. For most of the day the service from Liverpool arrives Nottingham around xx30. Southbound towards Trent Jct there's already services at xx28 to London, xx32 to Leicester and xx37 to Birmingham. Then at Peterborough there's the xx45 to Ipswich every other hour. Plus there's also more freight using the Leicester-Peterborough line now. It would require a lot of retimings to many services.
     
  29. stut

    stut Established Member

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    There was a Guildford to West Croydon (off-peak only, IIRC), as well as a Thameslink branch down via Clandon.

    And, I think it was discussed before, a Guildford to Haslemere slow shuttle, connecting with the Portsmouth fasts. A number of the Woking terminators also went down to Guildford.

    Was the Redhill - Tonbridge line operated as part of the North Downs Line at some point?

    Do I also remember correctly a Newcastle - Durham - Middlesbrough - Saltburn?

    I also remember the Stranraer services going via Gilmour St
     
  30. Welshman

    Welshman Established Member

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    Sorry - the Allington chord allows Nottingham-Skegness trains to go via Grantham and back out the same way they came in, down the Nottingham line and then to the Grantham avoiding line, passing under the ECML, then on to Skegness.

    So, yes, it removed the need to go north down the ECML to Barkston before crossing the up ECML to branch-off to Skeggy.

    But Nottingham-Norwich services, going south from Grantham and up the ECML to Peterborough must still cross the down ECML twice - once to access the up ECML just south of Grantham station, and the second time to access platforms 4 or 5 at Peterborough.

    Hope I've made that clear!
     
  31. curly42

    curly42 Member

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