What should we do with empty statue plinths?

[Bedpan]

There seem to be a number of empty statue plinths around the country, probably (justifiably) with more to come. So what should happen to the empty plinths? I see nothing wrong with statues, they provide a focal point in many instances, so I personally would like to see them re-used. If people agree, who would they like to see immortalised on a plinth? I would start with Alan Turing. A great man who suffered appalling prejudice. It's a pity he had no connections with Bristol worthy of his statue replacing Colston's with a suitable plaque alluding to both men on the plinth.

Another, more controversially perhaps, could a statue of Sir Tom Moore remind us in years to come of the Covid-19 epidemic and the steps he took to raise £30M+ for the NHS?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I really liked what they did with the empty plinth in Trafalgar Square, having a rotation of different art installations. It keeps things interesting and, if you don't like it, there'll be something else along in a few months.

I'd put Dr Paul Stephenson, the man who finally got Bristol Omnibus in the late 60s to employ black people after years of an overt "no blacks no Irish" recruitment policy, on a Bristol plinth. Or we could put Mary Seacole there, a Jamaican doctor who was in the Crimea doing all the same things Florence Nightingale was, but without the recognition.

 

[yorksrob]

Now that the statue of Robert Milligan has been removed, we could replace it with one of Spike Milligan, along with his famous epitaph "I told you I was ill".

 

[PeterC]

Just leave them empty as a reminder that we all have feet of clay.

 

[Gathursty]

Replace these controversial statues with a DNA double helix and a plaque explaining who the statue was.

 

[Bedpan]

For Bristol, I would say that a statue of Dr Paul Stephenson would be great on the plinth previously occupied by Colston, maybe with a plaque which includes an explanation of how the statue of Colston previously occupied the site, and the circumstances in which it was removed in

 

[duncanp]

I think the fourth plinth in Trafalgar Square is being reserved for a statue of Her Majesty the Queen after she dies, which I think is an eminently suitable use for it, especially if it annoys the politically correct brigade.

 

[158747]

I think the original statues should be reinstated back onto their plinths, this nonsense is starting to get out of hand now. How long will it be before someone finds something to be offended about the statue of Paddington Bear at Paddington station and demands its removal?

 

[DerekC]

I think the original statues should be reinstated back onto their plinths, this nonsense is starting to get out of hand now. How long will it be before someone finds something to be offended about the statue of Paddington Bear at Paddington station and demands its removal?

The trouble is that part of it isn't nonsense, is it? Celebrating and honouring people who made their money from slavery in the relatively recent past is just not acceptable. The difficult part is knowing where to draw the line. There's a lot of fuss in our area about the statue of Baden Powell which sits on the quayside at Poole. How to decide? You would have to read an objective biography of the man to know whether he was really a racialist or whether he simply reflected the attitudes of his time.

Going back to the OP - how about local heroes of the Covid epidemic? That might remind us in future of the things that happened in 2020.

 

[Geezertronic]

The problem is mob rule deciding what statues are removed. The statue of Edward Colston was illegally removed by idiots who think they know better, which now appears to have caused an idiot who thinks they know better to attack the statue of Alfred Fagon in the same city. One idiotic action causes an idiotic reaction - that is unfortunately where we appear to be at the moment

 

[Cletus]

Now that the statue of Robert Milligan has been removed, we could replace it with one of Spike Milligan, along with his famous epitaph "I told you I was ill".

Thinking back on some of his TV series, I'm not sure Spike Milligan is ever going to get a statue

 

[yorksrob]

Thinking back on some of his TV series, I'm not sure Spike Milligan is ever going to get a statue

Oh yes - now you mention it

 

[najaB]

The problem is mob rule deciding what statues are removed. The statue of Edward Colston was illegally removed by idiots who think they know better...

Only because "the mob" had all their previous letters and representations to the council ignored.

 

[Geezertronic]

Only because "the mob" had all their previous letters and representations to the council ignored.

I do hope that does not indicate that you condone their actions? Let us be clear, these idiots do not represent BLM or any other peaceful protests (of which there appear to be few). In fact it could be claimed that they are inciting violence as seen by another mindless attack on the statue of Alfred Fagon. What's good for the goose right?

 

[najaB]

I do hope that does not indicate that you condone their actions?

Condone? No. Understand? Yes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Condone? No. Understand? Yes.

Ping, and you win £500

Understanding why people take bad actions is a key step to trying to stop the bad actions. I get sick of people saying for instance that trying to understand the motivation of terrorists is sympathising - it's not, it's empathising, which is quite different - if you want to solve it you need to know why it is happening.

 

[Geezertronic]

Condone? No. Understand? Yes.

Ping, and you win £500

Understanding why people take bad actions is a key step to trying to stop the bad actions. I get sick of people saying for instance that trying to understand the motivation of terrorists is sympathising - it's not, it's empathising, which is quite different - if you want to solve it you need to know why it is happening.

Then I presume you will understand and empathise with those who want to protect statues and defend them if necessary

 

[najaB]

Then I presume you will understand and empathise with those who want to protect statues and defend them if necessary

When the reason is better than "It's always been there" or "Fighting political correctness", yes.

 

[DerekC]

Then I presume you will understand and empathise with those who want to protect statues and defend them if necessary

Yes, but there has to be a balanced case for the person portrayed, taking account of their good and bad deeds. To keep a statue of a modern character in a place of honour the good needs to considerably outweigh the bad. Just because the statue is of historical interest or artistic value isn't enough - it can go to a museum. I suspect the problem is that the statue defenders want to keep their comfortable beliefs in the rightness of anything ever done in the name of Great Britain. So I do empathise - that's what I was taught at school too. However I recommend a history refresher course!

 

[El Toro]

There seem to be a number of empty statue plinths around the country, probably (justifiably) with more to come. So what should happen to the empty plinths? I see nothing wrong with statues, they provide a focal point in many instances, so I personally would like to see them re-used. If people agree, who would they like to see immortalised on a plinth? I would start with Alan Turing. A great man who suffered appalling prejudice. It's a pity he had no connections with Bristol worthy of his statue replacing Colston's with a suitable plaque alluding to both men on the plinth.

Another, more controversially perhaps, could a statue of Sir Tom Moore remind us in years to come of the Covid-19 epidemic and the steps he took to raise £30M+ for the NHS?

Alan Turing was quite the genius, looking back it was thoroughly appalling to treat another human like he was treated. Unbelievable, and after all he did for his country too.

 

[DerekC]

Alan Turing was quite the genius, looking back it was thoroughly appalling to treat another human like he was treated. Unbelievable, and after all he did for his country too.

He does have a statue already, in Manchester - see this picture. (Not saying he doesn't deserve another ...)

 

[El Toro]

Perhaps, unfortunately I don’t know much about Bristol, but a very good candidate would be Sir George White, the founder of the Bristol Aeroplane Company. They were a prodigious company. Unlike other companies they built not only the airframes but the engines as well they were leaders in the aviation world. But I would Imagine that there is a statue of him there already. I’d be WELL SURPRISED if that wasn’t the case.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Only because "the mob" had all their previous letters and representations to the council ignored.

Ah yes. And of course, because if you don't get your way after a bit of lobbying, then the correct solution is always to just turn up with a mob and enforce your will anyway. That's how things are normally done in a democracy, isn't it....

 

[telstarbox]

the politically correct brigade.

Who are they?

 

[najaB]

That's how things are normally done in a democracy, isn't it....

Normally, in a democracy, when a large number of people make representations to the council on a matter they get a hearing. Straw polls showed that the majority of respondents were in favour of removing it, but apparently The Society of Merchant Venturers held sway over the council and they refused to even put its future up to the public to decide. The council agreed to add an additional/reworded plaque to explain who he was an how he got his wealth, but The Society of Merchant Venturers ended up writing it!

When a democracy isn't working...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Normally, in a democracy, when a large number of people make representations to the council on a matter they get a hearing. Straw polls showed that the majority of respondents were in favour of removing it, but apparently The Society of Merchant Venturers held sway over the council and they refused to even put its future up to the public to decide. The council agreed to add an additional/reworded plaque to explain who he was an how he got his wealth, but The Society of Merchant Venturers ended up writing it!

When a democracy isn't working...

So if people feel strongly enough about it, put up candidates at the next round of council elections. Or look for a party they can vote for that does want to remove the statue. Or campaign to so mobilise opinion that the council feels obliged to act in order to avoid losing seats at the next council elections.

For the last 10 years or so, polls have consistently shown a large majority in favour of rail nationalisation - but despite that, the Government has followed a policy of keeping TOCs in private ownership wherever possible. But somehow, I suspect you're not proposing that supporters of nationalisation get a mob together and storm the offices of the TOCs and the DfT in order to enforce the will of the 'people'.

 

[UP13]

Alan Turing was quite the genius, looking back it was thoroughly appalling to treat another human like he was treated. Unbelievable, and after all he did for his country too.

His house is near where I live and my eldest goes to a school named after him. However it has recently come to light that as well as three house with the blue plaque for Turing there is also another house nearby with a blue plaque, which belongs to a Victorian man (I forgot his name) who played a key role in extending homophobic laws.

So in a way the oppressor and the oppressed have been given equal weighting by the blue plaques, neither which mention that one was a homophobe and the other conmitedd suicide due to homophobia.

If current events highlight anything is that the history curriculum needs revamping. It's all well and good year 6 pupils learning about victorian children or Queen Victoria or secondary pupils learning about WWII but no real mention is ever given to the empire etc.

 

[najaB]

Or campaign to so mobilise opinion that the council feels obliged to act in order to avoid losing seats at the next council elections.

Done. Which is why, after nearly a decade, the council reluctantly agreed to add a new plaque - but then let The Society of Merchant Venturers write the final draft of the plaque.

For the last 10 years or so, polls have consistently shown a large majority in favour of rail nationalisation - but despite that, the Government has followed a policy of keeping TOCs in private ownership wherever possible.

Because we keep voting the Tories into power.

But somehow, I suspect you're not proposing that supporters of nationalisation get a mob together and storm the offices of the TOCs and the DfT in order to enforce the will of the 'people'.

No. Because, as I said (and you're conveniently ignoring), I don't condone the actions of the people who pulled the statue down. But I do understand why they did it.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

No. Because, as I said (and you're conveniently ignoring), I don't condone the actions of the people who pulled the statue down. But I do understand why they did it.

Ah fair enough. I wasn't deliberately ignoring that you said you don't condone their actions though, I simply hadn't noticed you'd said that - sorry!

I was responding specifically to this, which seems to imply condoning the actions.

Only because "the mob" had all their previous letters and representations to the council ignored.

 

[najaB]

Ah fair enough. I wasn't deliberately ignoring that you said you don't condone their actions though, I simply hadn't noticed you'd said that - sorry!

Okay. I also apologise for suggesting that you were being deliberately provocative.