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What stations do you think may close within the next 5 to 10 years?

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Bletchleyite

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Will any stations be closed on the Marston Vale line, once East-West rail is running?

There is a proposal to close most of them and replace with 5 newly built replacements mostly on different sites roughly half way between other pairs of stations (I think Woburn Sands is the only one that would not move). However this is not finding political favour locally, so I suspect it won't happen in that form (though we could see the rather pointless Kempston Hardwick go, I guess).
 

Doctor Fegg

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It wouldn't amaze me if the Government decided to close a lightly used branch line for a new, road-based autonomous shuttle service, powered by whatever flavour of bionic duckweed is in fashion at the time (and no doubt with investors friendly to the people currently in power).
 

Bletchleyite

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It wouldn't amaze me if the Government decided to close a lightly used branch line for a new, road-based autonomous shuttle service, powered by whatever flavour of bionic duckweed is in fashion at the time (and no doubt with investors friendly to the people currently in power).

To me if that happens anywhere soon it'll be the Stourbridge Shuttle, which would be an easy swapover to an automated people mover of some kind and is already essentially segregated from the national network.
 

zwk500

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To me if that happens anywhere soon it'll be the Stourbridge Shuttle, which would be an easy swapover to an automated people mover of some kind and is already essentially segregated from the national network.
Hasn't the Stourbridge Town branch been earmarked for part of the Midland Metro?
 

Mcr Warrior

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How have stations in the middle of nowhere, like Shippea Hill, managed to avoid closure?
 

zwk500

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How have stations in the middle of nowhere, like Shippea Hill, managed to avoid closure?
Legal costs of the closure process, probably stopping there doesn't cost much in terms of journey time, and I imagine it doesn't need much spending on upkeep either.
 

Ianno87

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Legal costs of the closure process, probably stopping there doesn't cost much in terms of journey time, and I imagine it doesn't need much spending on upkeep either.

And on lightly-used lines, where the capacity consequence of retaining a few calls is low.
 

Failed Unit

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Whole lines have survived that such as Gainsborough - Brigg. Maybe now it might get some passengers if it had a decent service.
 

HST43257

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I feel like closure isn’t a good idea (given costs and things), but some sort of mothballing (but still just keeping at the normal standard of platform etc) is more favourable, given the lower cost (I’m assuming).
 

flitwickbeds

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Potential stations on open lines which already have a nearby new station and/or have been reduced service which I can see potentially closing are:
  • Sankey for Penketh (since Warrington West was built, reduced to 4 trains a day in peaks only)
  • Lelant Saltings (Park and Ride into St Ives, the main reason for the station, has been relocated, leaving 2 trains a day in the morning only)
  • Teesside Airport (1 train a week in one direction only)
  • Polesworth (1 train a day in one direction only)
  • Pilning (2 trains a week on Saturdays only and in one direction only)
  • Shippea Hill and Lakenheath
The entire lines I could see closing (although I'm not sure if any freight runs on some of these?):
  • Reedham to Great Yarmouth (via Berney Arms)
  • Morecambe to Heysham Port
  • Stranraer to Girvan/Ayr
  • Gainsborough to Barnetby (via Brigg)
  • Leeds to Goole (via Rawcliffe)
  • Clarbeston Road to Fishguard Harbour
 

A0

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Potential stations on open lines which already have a nearby new station and/or have been reduced service which I can see potentially closing are:
  • Sankey for Penketh (since Warrington West was built, reduced to 4 trains a day in peaks only)
  • Lelant Saltings (Park and Ride into St Ives, the main reason for the station, has been relocated, leaving 2 trains a day in the morning only)
  • Teesside Airport (1 train a week in one direction only)
  • Polesworth (1 train a day in one direction only)
  • Pilning (2 trains a week on Saturdays only and in one direction only)
  • Shippea Hill and Lakenheath
The entire lines I could see closing (although I'm not sure if any freight runs on some of these?):
  • Reedham to Great Yarmouth (via Berney Arms)
  • Morecambe to Heysham Port
  • Stranraer to Girvan/Ayr
  • Gainsborough to Barnetby (via Brigg)
  • Leeds to Goole (via Rawcliffe)
  • Clarbeston Road to Fishguard Harbour

Morecambe - Heysham Port will survive, the trains are there to connect with the ferries to the Isle of Man and there are no plans or proposals to change the destination of the ferries.

I suspect Fishguard Harbour will survive for similar reasons.
 

Ianno87

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Morecambe - Heysham Port will survive, the trains are there to connect with the ferries to the Isle of Man and there are no plans or proposals to change the destination of the ferries.

I suspect Fishguard Harbour will survive for similar reasons.

Although Heysham could quite easily be served by a connecting bus from Lancaster (which would cost less to run and be quicker).
 

A0

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Although Heysham could quite easily be served by a connecting bus from Lancaster (which would cost less to run and be quicker).

The costs of the service are negligible - they're extensions of a Morecambe service. The line also serves Heysham Power station, so probably isn't under threat of closure. If the line was only serving passenger, I'd agree with you - but run the bus from Morecambe.
 

stuu

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Acton mainline will have little practical purpose once old oak common opens
It's the best part of a mile away, surrounded by housing and about five minutes walk from the enormous developments at Gipsy Corner, and will have the best service it has ever had when Crossrail pull their finger out. I would suggest Acton Mainline's future has never looked brighter
 

Bletchleyite

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The costs of the service are negligible - they're extensions of a Morecambe service. The line also serves Heysham Power station, so probably isn't under threat of closure. If the line was only serving passenger, I'd agree with you - but run the bus from Morecambe.

The cost is low, but they do make the timetable a little messy, and so there may be benefits to gain from a single-unit half-hourly-all-day Lancaster to Morecambe service, binning the Heysham bit off. However it's survived like that for years so I don't see any likelihood of it going.
 

flitwickbeds

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Morecambe - Heysham Port will survive, the trains are there to connect with the ferries to the Isle of Man and there are no plans or proposals to change the destination of the ferries.
Well... It connects with precisely one (inbound) ferry a day. According to the Steam Packet timetable, today there are arrivals into Heysham at 1220 and 2359, and departures at 0215 and 1515. The one train a day arrives at 1317 and departs at 1320. Therefore the only connection I would argue is suitable is for people arriving into England on the 1220 ferry who have to wait "only" an hour for the train. I don't see many people waiting 2 hours for the 1515 boat, and there are no trains connecting to the early morning or late night ferries. Additionally, on Sundays, the train times are arrival at 1259 and departure at 1304, while the afternoon ferry arrives at 1315 - after the train has already gone. Doesn't seem like any effort is truly made to connect to the ferries.

The costs of the service are negligible - they're extensions of a Morecambe service. The line also serves Heysham Power station, so probably isn't under threat of closure. If the line was only serving passenger, I'd agree with you - but run the bus from Morecambe.
If they are truly negligible why don't they get extended for every service (or at least more services)? Would the case for doing that be improved by building a new station to serve the town of Heysham too? If so, why hasn't that already been done?
 

zwk500

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Well... It connects with precisely one (inbound) ferry a day. According to the Steam Packet timetable, today there are arrivals into Heysham at 1220 and 2359, and departures at 0215 and 1515. The one train a day arrives at 1317 and departs at 1320. Therefore the only connection I would argue is suitable is for people arriving into England on the 1220 ferry who have to wait "only" an hour for the train. I don't see many people waiting 2 hours for the 1515 boat, and there are no trains connecting to the early morning or late night ferries. Additionally, on Sundays, the train times are arrival at 1259 and departure at 1304, while the afternoon ferry arrives at 1315 - after the train has already gone. Doesn't seem like any effort is truly made to connect to the ferries.
Presumably disembarkation, check-in and embarkation aren't exactly quick. Although I agree the service isn't massively helpful, and for 2 ferries a day it would be better to run a bus from Lancaster, as it will have more connections to where people are actually going. However even if the station closes the branch itself will stay to serve the power station.
If they are truly negligible why don't they get extended for every service (or at least more services)?
Possibly because you'd need an extra unit, driver and guard diagram in the cycle to provide the necessary resilience in the timetable, or even just to be able to run out and back. There's also no point as nobody would board the train at Heysham, and you may well need to rejig the current arrangement of the side-by-side single lines between Morecambe and Hest Bank.
Would the case for doing that be improved by building a new station to serve the town of Heysham too?
Probably, but...
If so, why hasn't that already been done?
Not by enough.
 

yorksrob

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I do think that more effort should be made with the Heysham ferry connections.

I get that the night ones won't connect to much, but there will be better combined hotel opportunities in Morecambe/Lancaster.
 

Bletchleyite

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I do think that more effort should be made with the Heysham ferry connections.

I get that the night ones won't connect to much, but there will be better combined hotel opportunities in Morecambe/Lancaster.

Hasn't this got a bit like Holyhead, i.e. the ferry passengers will almost all be in cars and the foot passengers on planes?

You could try to build custom with a couple of new stations, but the trouble is it'd be slower than the bus into Lancaster as it's so circuitous.
 

A0

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The cost is low, but they do make the timetable a little messy, and so there may be benefits to gain from a single-unit half-hourly-all-day Lancaster to Morecambe service, binning the Heysham bit off. However it's survived like that for years so I don't see any likelihood of it going.

I'm not sure Morecambe - Lancaster even comes close to justifying a 30 minute service.

As it stands some of the current service is run as part of the Leeds service, so you may end up creating more problems than you solve.
 

Bletchleyite

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I'm not sure Morecambe - Lancaster even comes close to justifying a 30 minute service.

It's surprisingly well used and Lancaster is a very car-unfriendly city, but also not a cycle friendly one as it's so hilly.

It's not far off half hourly anyway, there are some services with only 40ish minute gaps. And don't underestimate the benefit of a memorable clockface timetable on a local service like that.

As it stands some of the current service is run as part of the Leeds service, so you may end up creating more problems than you solve.

Split them.
 

zwk500

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It's surprisingly well used and Lancaster is a very car-unfriendly city, but also not a cycle friendly one as it's so hilly.

Split them.
The branch line is fairly circuitous even to Morecambe isn't it? Surely an hourly train to Lancaster, with space for the Leeds services in the other half of the hour and topped up with more direct buses would be better total public transport provision for the town?
 

Ianno87

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I do think that more effort should be made with the Heysham ferry connections.

I get that the night ones won't connect to much, but there will be better combined hotel opportunities in Morecambe/Lancaster.

What "effort" is needed? They run a train timed to exactly connect with the daytime ferry. And I'm not sure many passengers really want the expense of a hotel when they can fly for less. (And if you really wanted to do that, the few passengers just get a Taxi from Heysham to Lancaster and be done with it).

I'm not sure Morecambe - Lancaster even comes close to justifying a 30 minute service.

As it stands some of the current service is run as part of the Leeds service, so you may end up creating more problems than you solve.

But would the unit be better deployed going back to Leeds to strengthen the Bentham line frequency, than wasting over an hour pootling to Heysham and back?

Or is one unit shuttling back and forth between Lancaster and Morecambe every 30 minutes benefiting more passengers overall than use the boat connection?
 

A0

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I do think that more effort should be made with the Heysham ferry connections.

I get that the night ones won't connect to much, but there will be better combined hotel opportunities in Morecambe/Lancaster.

There are only 2 sailings a day - one which arrives at around 00.00 or 00.30 - which leaves at either 01.15 or 02.15 and the other which arrives at about 12.30pm and leaves at about 2.15pm - it's hardly Dover.

So the daytime train which arrives at Heysham Port at around 13.20 is absolutely timed to connect.

The night time one doesn't have a train connection - and since the last train currently from Lancaster to Morecambe is at 22.36 it would presumably mean extending a whole shift to provide such a service - which would make this even less viable.

It's surprisingly well used and Lancaster is a very car-unfriendly city, but also not a cycle friendly one as it's so hilly.

It's not far off half hourly anyway, there are some services with only 40ish minute gaps. And don't underestimate the benefit of a memorable clockface timetable on a local service like that.

Define "surprisingly well used" - official stats show about 200k - so probably 500 people a day and similar to Felixstowe (which was probably the best comparison I could think of being on a line which has survived because of freight, is a smallish coastal town at the end of a branch line to a nearby major town).
 
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Ianno87

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Define "surprisingly well used" - official stats show about 200k - so probably 500 people a day and similar to Felixstowe (which was probably the best comparison I could think of being on a line which has survived because of freight, is a smallish coastal town at the end of a branch line to a nearby major town).

I'd guess "busy at certain times (e.g. sunny days at the seaside, Saturday shopping hours), deadly quiet at others".

I'd also imagine a proportion relatively high value traffic, connecting off main line service (if local demand covered largely by the bus)
 

Bletchleyite

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I'd guess "busy at certain times (e.g. sunny days at the seaside, Saturday shopping hours), deadly quiet at others".

I'd also imagine a proportion relatively high value traffic, connecting off main line service (if local demand covered largely by the bus)

You'd think it would be one of those cases where locals mostly use the bus (like is the case in MK, for example - almost nobody uses the railway for local journeys despite it being really quick and for a return priced very similarly, it's seen as for going to London or Brum), but it actually isn't. Last time I used it it was full and standing (OK, only a 2-car 142, but that's still not a tiny number) with none-too-sober locals who seemed to have been out for a few pints in Lancaster and to watch the footy.

It certainly seems rather better used than the Marston Vale*, though COVID will clearly have damaged it.

I suspect if (like the Conwy Valley) you accepted local free bus passes on it it'd be even better used.

* Possibly except the MV "school trains" - Lancaster Castle station isn't, I think, well placed for any of the Lancaster schools, so they'll be on the bus.
 

Ianno87

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You'd think it would be one of those cases where locals mostly use the bus (like is the case in MK, for example - almost nobody uses the railway for local journeys despite it being really quick and for a return priced very similarly, it's seen as for going to London or Brum), but it actually isn't. Last time I used it it was full and standing (OK, only a 2-car 142, but that's still not a tiny number) with none-too-sober locals who seemed to have been out for a few pints in Lancaster and to watch the footy.

It certainly seems rather better used than the Marston Vale*, though COVID will clearly have damaged it.

I suspect if (like the Conwy Valley) you accepted local free bus passes on it it'd be even better used.

* Possibly except the MV "school trains" - Lancaster Castle station isn't, I think, well placed for any of the Lancaster schools, so they'll be on the bus.

It's also cheaper than the bus, which probably helps!

Although there are still more passengers overall on several half-full buses per hour (combined) than one busy 2-car train.
 
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