• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

What would you like to see preserved in 10 - 15 years?

Status
Not open for further replies.

CarterUSM

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2010
Messages
2,495
Location
North Britain
That's a real shame. I'll try and pop out at some point and have a wee look, i'm intrigued by the steam locos though, i wonder which company they belonged to?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Oswyntail

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2009
Messages
4,183
Location
Yorkshire
Doesn't this just highlight the problem? Someone, with the very best intentions, thinks "Let's save that", then, from the sound of it runs out of money, assistance - all the resources needed to do a proper job - and something unique and worthwhile is lost. Meanwhile, round the UK, large numbers of other groups are trying to "save" yet another Class nn or yy because it has become available. Several of these projects also end in failure for the same reasons.
There is a limited amount of money, space, skill and manpower available. There is also a limited amount of public interest in the end product. Limited supply and limited demand. This is crying out for organisation and co-ordination. Otherwise, the country is going to be flooded with half-preserved 37s and nothing else:roll:
 

Daimler

Established Member
Joined
5 Feb 2009
Messages
1,197
Location
Hertfordshire
It would be good to see one of each distinct class properly preserved. So a Class 313, but perhaps a choice between 314/315 as (I am probably wrong here) they are essentially the same. Equally a 142 and a 143 or 144.
*** the controversial bit ***
What I would not like to see is a repeat of the situation we got with the Bulleid Pacifics and Class 50s where a much higher proportion of the class was saved than its importance justified, simply because the supply was there. If, instead of putting loads of money into buying and restoring yet another 37, enthusiasts (for example) set about creating a stretch of electrified route, or negotiating in advance for a 90 or 60. Resources are scarce. This is not only money, but volunteer effort, technical expertise, sheer space. But, most important of all, public interest can be deflated. A really rare outing by a well-preserved unique locomotive beats yet another run by a shabby 47 any day.

Now, really, can you have too many Bulleid pacifics? :D
 

Bittern

Established Member
Joined
8 Apr 2009
Messages
1,919
Location
Scotland

SouthEastern-465

Established Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
1,657
Location
Greater London
We need one example of every class to be preserved. It would be a shame to see any class become completely extinct, however good or bad they were on the mainline.

Don't get me wrong I am all for preservation, one thing what I always wonder is lets say in in 80 years time, where will the room be for all these preserved units/locos?
 

4SRKT

Established Member
Joined
9 Jan 2009
Messages
4,409
Don't get me wrong I am all for preservation, one thing what I always wonder is lets say in in 80 years time, where will the room be for all these preserved units/locos?

There will need to be some sort of late 20th century Woodham Bros. where we can put all the 37s!
 

LE Greys

Established Member
Joined
6 Mar 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Hitchin
Don't get me wrong I am all for preservation, one thing what I always wonder is lets say in in 80 years time, where will the room be for all these preserved units/locos?

By that time, it will probably be uneconomical to keep on repairing all the various non-standard kettles all round the country. Something has to keep the tourists moving.
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
Doesn't this just highlight the problem? Someone, with the very best intentions, thinks "Let's save that", then, from the sound of it runs out of money, assistance - all the resources needed to do a proper job - and something unique and worthwhile is lost. Meanwhile, round the UK, large numbers of other groups are trying to "save" yet another Class nn or yy because it has become available. Several of these projects also end in failure for the same reasons.
There is a limited amount of money, space, skill and manpower available. There is also a limited amount of public interest in the end product. Limited supply and limited demand. This is crying out for organisation and co-ordination. Otherwise, the country is going to be flooded with half-preserved 37s and nothing else:roll:

I suppose, but then again, people will always have their favourites which they will direct their money towards. If they were prevented from attempting to save another class nn or yy, there's nothing to suggest they'd put their dosh towards something rarer or more worthy.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,048
Location
Macclesfield
It's an interesting point that surely the country's preserved railways are going to eventually reach overflow in the long term. Preservation of locos and rolling stock has only become such a large concern since the mid 60s when the end of steam provided the impetus for many to ensure that such an important part of railway history was not lost forever and went out to save their favourite locomotives, made possible by Woodham Bros. slow progress in scrapping steam locos alowing individuals and preservation groups the necessary time to scrape together the financial capital to buy their desired loco (213 of todays' preserved steam locos came from Barry). The number of locos of any particular class being preserved has been ever increasing through the years as individuals' disposable income has risen over time, making people more willing and better able to contribute to preservation efforts and groups chasing a particular loco. So the situation has now occured where far more locos of a particular class are preserved than is necessary or realistic, as has occured with the 50s, many stillrotting away around the country unrestored, and will undoubtedly occur with the 37s now.

The number of locos and carriages that are preserved is always going to increase as further classes are withdrawn, but with current trends the proportion of a class of loco that is preserved is also going to keep increasing, so that preserved railways are just going to run out of room!

That said, I am completely pro-preservation:

In 15 years time or so I'd hope that the current "Pacer" and "Sprinter" DMUs will be being replaced by the next generation of regional and local trains, so I'd like to see examples of class 142 and 144 preserved, and given the number of 141s that made it into preservation I see this as a given. It would be good to see examples of class 150 (maybe even one preserved by the NRM if they are seen as historically important) and 156 preserved; I think that 156s would be ideal for preserved railways. I can't see how air conditioned units such as 158s would fit in with preserved lines though: They're not really designed for the slow speed, frequent stop operation found on preserved railways.

I'd also like to see a selection of 58s (above 58050 earmarked for the NRM) and 60s preserved. And a 90 by the ACLG.

There's also a need for full representative rakes of wagons I think, to allow for authentic operation of modern preserved freight locos with block trains; maybe 24xHAA coal hoppers, or 12-15xTEAs. Only one rake of each would be really necessary, which could be hired out to various preserved railways as required.
 

GearJammer

Member
Joined
12 Nov 2009
Messages
897
Location
On the Southern
but with current trends the proportion of a class of loco that is preserved is also going to keep increasing,

I'm gonna stick my neck out and disagree with that Sprinterguy, reason being that its clear for everyone to see that locos are not always finishing there days in scrapyards here now, there being sent abroad for further use meaning that if you want to preserve a particular loco you may well end up not only having to pay for buying it and restoring it but shipping it back to the uk, i think the cost will become prohibitive, look at the EWS 66's, i think when there up for renewal they won't be scrapped, they'll be sent for further use abroad and run into the ground, theres already class 37's that have met there end at the hands of Spanish scrapmen!

Also theres the cost, locos that are currantly being preserved i'e 37's 47's.... even 56's and 58's are'nt (as far as im aware) that technical or expensive compared to newer 66's 67's and 70's which have all there computer controlled technoligy, for example im looking forward to seeing how many class 60's get preserved, reason being that in the future i can see them heading abroad in a similar style to the 58's, and some may never return, plus restoreing one i don't think is gonna be no easy job due to the cost of restoring some of there computer technoligy, you've also got the fact the person or company selling these now modern locos are gonna know what there worth and there gonna cost a lot more to buy!
 

charlesn132

Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
46
I would also want a Class 319 preserved (with both 'bits'). I hear that they will be refurbished, fitted with air-con and used on newly electrified routes. This will probably mean that they will lose their DC rail 'bits' and the fact that they are dual-voltage makes them one of my favourite classes.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,048
Location
Macclesfield
A very good point there Gearjammer, you could well be right that that loco exports and such like will really cause problems for future preservationists-it'll be interesting to see how it all pans out in 20 years or so.
 

LE Greys

Established Member
Joined
6 Mar 2010
Messages
5,389
Location
Hitchin
Perhaps to clarify what I said further up the page, I think there might be a distinct steam shortage in a few decades. Firstly, coal is becoming harder to get, but it will probably be possible for the HRA to open up a Welsh deep mine if they work together. However, the real problems will be a spares shortage and a skills shortage. Currently, we have 40-odd classes, some of which are represented by one member alone. With non-standard parts in Imperial measurements, they will become steadily more expensive to maintain, with skills that are dying out in the modern world. In 20-30 years, we will probably have less than 50 active steam locos of a dozen or so classes. Most of them will be 'Trigger's brooms', with so many new parts that there is nothing left of the loco that ran in service.

As a result, there may not be enough traction to work all the preserved lines. Diesel can fill the gap, but will tourists want to travel behind a 37 or an 08? I don't think preservation is going to disappear, but steam can't go on forever, something has to step in.
 

atomicdanny

Member
Joined
7 Mar 2010
Messages
542
Location
Kent, UK
As a result, there may not be enough traction to work all the preserved lines. Diesel can fill the gap, but will tourists want to travel behind a 37 or an 08? I don't think preservation is going to disappear, but steam can't go on forever, something has to step in.

Tourists would want to travel behind an 08, seriously?

'Networkers' (Classes 165, 166, 365, 465, 466) These are my personal favorite type of trains (Class 465s espicially!) and show the improvements over the units they replaced (Sorry EPB, your still brilliant though!).

I definately agree with the networkers (although mine is the 365, I used to travel on them almost every day when they did Victoria - Dover / Ramsgate), although I'm not keen on the front of the 365s they looked better when they had the current 465 fronts! I think that these would probably still be running by then though! (466001 or 365501!)

I would also like to see HSTs, as well as a 373 (they are bound to be changed at some point!, although no one seems to want to preserve DMUs or EMUs its all class 37s, or deltics or similar locomotives only :( (with only a handful of mus :( )
 

Aictos

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2009
Messages
10,403
Tourists would want to travel behind an 08, seriously?



I definately agree with the networkers (although mine is the 365, I used to travel on them almost every day when they did Victoria - Dover / Ramsgate), although I'm not keen on the front of the 365s they looked better when they had the current 465 fronts! I think that these would probably still be running by then though! (466001 or 365501!)

I would also like to see HSTs, as well as a 373 (they are bound to be changed at some point!, although no one seems to want to preserve DMUs or EMUs its all class 37s, or deltics or similar locomotives only :( (with only a handful of mus :( )

Reason being it's the same old 37s or similar being preserved and only a handful of multiple units is some are of the belief that multiple units are all the same forgetting that the stuff they replaced themselves were all the same!

I might get shot but a 37 is a 37 to me with just the odd alterations like the 317/1s were partly converted to 317/7s for the Stansted Express by WAGN.

Add to the fact that way too many locos of one particular type was preserved, although this does help with maintenance.

I think if anything to be different I would like to preserve a ex Saltley traincrew by stuffing them standing by a Class 45....
 
Joined
12 Feb 2010
Messages
441
Location
Taunton
I'd like to be preserved. Because I think in 10-15 years time I'll look like a wrinkly old prune.

{Waits for the abuse to start}
 

starrymarkb

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2009
Messages
5,985
Location
Exeter
One thing I noticed in Switzerland was that some stations had an old locomotive displayed on the platform (under a little shelter)
 

E&W Lucas

Established Member
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Messages
1,358
There will need to be some sort of late 20th century Woodham Bros. where we can put all the 37s!

Thought that already existed at Kirkby Stephen East? :D

It's all very well talking about 2nd generation units, etc, but the major preserved lines will not touch them. Their market is Joe Public, who want steam. Diesel is very hard to market, as enthusiasts are so fickle.

I'm sure there will be the odd example at some of the newer sites, but how are they going to be financed? They'll earn next to no income.
 

DaveNewcastle

Established Member
Joined
21 Dec 2007
Messages
7,387
Location
Newcastle (unless I'm out)
One thing I noticed in Switzerland was that some stations had an old locomotive displayed on the platform (under a little shelter)
There's actually a good point being made there!

We don't need to assume that "preservation" always means preserved and in working condition. If the alternatives were only "preserved and working" or scrapped, then we'd loose a lot of opportunities to admire the engineering achievents of the past.
I like the idea of keeping a few examples of locos, rolling stock, signal boxes, station and yard fittings etc somwhere where they are seen and appreciated, even if they are permanently doomed never to work again.

There's plenty places on the network where the trackside is derelict, formerly active railway infrastructure. It would be nice to see some more old rolling stock being maintained in so that they appear to be in their original condition.
That's the sort of project that the Heritage Lottery Fund would consider supporting.
 

12CSVT

Established Member
Joined
18 Aug 2010
Messages
2,612
Why not? You can certainly have too many 37s, as we can all see!

You can also have too many 25s, 31s, 47s and 50s. And yes there are probably more Bulleid Pacifics than the preserved railways know what to do with.
Looking to the future, a HST set (main line certified for charters, with Valenta engines and in origional B.R. livery), a class 60 and a 156 or 158 should be saved.
Perhaps a class 57 engine could be placed in any one of the estimated 150 class 47s now littering the preserved railways.
 

The Decapod

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2010
Messages
236
Location
Everywhere
I agree that at least one full HST set should be preserved in original livery, and re-fitted with Paxman engines to give the authentic ear-splitting shrieking noise!
but steam can't go on forever, something has to step in.
Isn't that part of the reason for the growing interest in new-build steam locos?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top