What's a "Travel Safe Officer"?

[Howardh]

I'll put this in here as I think it's covid-related. Two went past me on the train tonight, never seen anything like this before. What do they do, and have they any statutory powers (such as Transport Police)? They look very official - but so do bouncers on the doors of bars. I have a feeling it's all show and you don't even have to answer back to them if they have a question?

 

[PupCuff]

Same legal powers as any other member of rail staff (eg enforcement of Railway Byelaws) plus limited police powers under the Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme Regulations, the exact powers depend on what (if anything) the BTP have authorised them to carry out but would typically include things like taking down details of people committing antisocial behaviour, confiscating alcohol from underage drinkers, dealing with littering, issuing fixed penalties for trespass etc. They also tend to be better equipped with PPE, sometimes things like stab vests etc, and security training than other rail staff like conductors so are better suited in dealing with situations where conflict is more likely. A lot will depend on the individual TOC, if you share that someone might be able to give you a more detailed answer.

 

[DB]

Just private security, aren't they? Seen them around well before this year.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Greater Manchester Police used to run a Travel Safe Operation on the Manchester Metrolink where officers would travel on the tram network in company with Metrolink staff and deal with fare evasion and anti-social behaviour. The Metrolink has always been plagued with violent crime, more so than the trains, with trams running through areas like Wythenshawe which is home to alot of 'dregs' of society. Piccadilly Gardens is a cess pit and all, I avoid it every time I venture into Manchester.

In recent times, I've seen quite a few travel safe officers from Carlisle Security 'policing' the trains on Merseyrail. They are kind of like 'bouncers' - they need to have a SIA badge and usually pace up and down carriages and platforms like hungry lions waiting to pounce on someone they don't like.

CJ

 

[Stigy]

Can’t really add much, but just to say, the TSOs employed by outside agencies such as STM security and Carlisle Security, are often not as well paid as those who work for a TOC, and thus sometimes not as professional? (probably because the benefits of working for a TOC far outweigh those any security company could offer).

I did about 13 years in this area of the industry before I became a Trainee Driver on both the frontline and the management side and can say with all certainty, you definitely get a better calibre of staff recruiting them directly by the TOC, rather than (often) ex-door staff etc Security Companies attract. People are also of the impression that the bigger you are, the better you are, which generally isn’t the case.

 

[C J Snarzell]

There was a push to regulate the security industry many years ago and move away from the culture of the stereotypical bouncers who were built like gorillas, dressed in black combat jackets and behaved like thugs.

Unfortunately, many of the security companies pay their staff at minimum wage, some staff are on zero hour contracts, while others are working 12 hour shifts and not generally looked after or rewarded by their employers.

There are some genuinely decent hard working people doing these jobs, but from I've seen recently there are many who still behave unprofessionally, which is a little understandable as it isn't the best job in the world.

CJ

 

[Stigy]

There was a push to regulate the security industry many years ago and move away from the culture of the stereotypical bouncers who were built like gorillas, dressed in black combat jackets and behaved like thugs.

Unfortunately, many of the security companies pay their staff at minimum wage, some staff are on zero hour contracts, while others are working 12 hour shifts and not generally looked after or rewarded by their employers.

There are some genuinely decent hard working people doing these jobs, but from I've seen recently there are many who still behave unprofessionally, which is a little understandable as it isn't the best job in the world.

CJ

There was a push for that when SIA licensing came in back in 2005/6 when I was in the industry. We were told cowboy companies would cease to exist and wages would be much higher. The latter certainly never materialised, especially with a lot of security companies restricting working hours to between 40 and 50 per week.

When I joined the railway it was another world. The salary was good, the hours were good and the benefits were great. I went from earning £18k a year over a 60 hour week to earning £22k for 37hrs with a guaranteed pay rise every year (this was back in 2006 bear in mind). The salary when I left last year, was about £32k (or £35k for my role as a Team Leader) without associated location allowances. You wouldn’t get that at any security company.

 

[John Webb]

From meeting a couple of them from Thameslink they are basically the railway equivalent of Police Community Support Officers with similar limited powers compared to the British Transport Police officers. But like PCSOs have direct contact with BTP and other back-up support.

 

[Stigy]

From meeting a couple of them from Thameslink they are basically the railway equivalent of Police Community Support Officers with similar limited powers compared to the British Transport Police officers. But like PCSOs have direct contact with BTP and other back-up support.

Generally more power than a PCSO as they’ll also report offenders for offences using Railway Byelaws and other legislation too.

 

[Howardh]

Thanks for the replies - how much training do they go through?

 

[C J Snarzell]

There was a push for that when SIA licensing came in back in 2005/6 when I was in the industry. We were told cowboy companies would cease to exist and wages would be much higher. The latter certainly never materialised, especially with a lot of security companies restricting working hours to between 40 and 50 per week.

When I joined the railway it was another world. The salary was good, the hours were good and the benefits were great. I went from earning £18k a year over a 60 hour week to earning £22k for 37hrs with a guaranteed pay rise every year (this was back in 2006 bear in mind). The salary when I left last year, was about £32k (or £35k for my role as a Team Leader) without associated location allowances. You wouldn’t get that at any security company.

One of my friends did security work as a watchman (or should I now say watch person!) on a building site many years ago. He was averaging a 60 hour week which was 5 x 12 hour shifts. Generally because security people are paid at flat minimum wage, they work long hours simply to bring home a decent wage each week. Needless to say he did not do it for long.

The quality of life is not good - my friend spent some long hours on his own in a little portakabin losing the will to live - not very good quality of life. Same as licenced door staff - they spend long periods of time stood outside bars/pubs in freezing temperatures, only to get either assaulted by drunken vermin or accused of assault themselves just by trying to do their job. I can understand why there is a high turn over of staff in the security industry.

CJ

 

[Stigy]

Thanks for the replies - how much training do they go through?

The RSAS (Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme) course is generally done over 1 or 2 weeks depending on who does it, but the content is the same. It’s pretty basic stuff. If you work for a TOC in this capacity you’ll receive more on the job training than RSAS training usually, as that’s what is most important.

Worth bearing in mind also that the vetting is identical to that of Police Officers and staff in its most basic form, so they will ask about your family and who you live with, any convictions, as well as your finances (for example current CCJs and/or bankruptcy judgements will be a bar to appointment). That’s another thing that ‘should’ set these people apart from standard security guards (the criminalityvchecks aren’t simply a DBS check).

 

[Howardh]

The RSAS (Railway Safety Accreditation Scheme) course is generally done over 1 or 2 weeks depending on who does it, but the content is the same. It’s pretty basic stuff. If you work for a TOC in this capacity you’ll receive more on the job training than RSAS training usually, as that’s what is most important.

Worth bearing in mind also that the vetting is identical to that of Police Officers and staff in its most basic form, so they will ask about your family and who you live with, any convictions, as well as your finances (for example current CCJs and/or bankruptcy judgements will be a bar to appointment). That’s another thing that ‘should’ set these people apart from standard security guards (the criminalityvchecks aren’t simply a DBS check).

Thanks.

 

[L401CJF]

The ones on Merseyrail were doing ticket checks late night a few weeks ago on board trains along with checking masks, feet on seats etc. They've had them on Merseyrail for years only branded as "Byelaw Enforcement ". I believe ticket checking is a new job they've been given. Going back a few years you'd always find them hiding in the back cab with the guard although its rare you don't see them knocking around on the trains now.

Merseyrail have had Carlisle doing it for years, predating Carlisle it was MTL Security back when MTL ran the buses and trains.

The Merseytravel Travel Safe scheme has been in for years on buses and trains, however its only the trains that get any Enforcement. Bus drivers can report antisocial behaviour etc via a Travelsafe form and is used to target the areas with most issues. Its then dealt with by local PCSOs

 

[BlackpoolScott]

Northern did a YouTube video on them not long ago.

 

[SteveM70]

The ones who work for Northern seem to be split into two groups - some who seem decent and helpful, and a majority who dress like wannabe stormtroopers with black combat style trousers tucked into big bovver boots etc and prowl around looking for aggro

 

[185]

The ones who work for Northern seem to be split into two groups - some who seem decent and helpful, and a majority who dress like wannabe stormtroopers with black combat style trousers tucked into big bovver boots etc and prowl around looking for aggro

...and stopped a terrorist. TSOs at Northern are employed by STM & shared with Metrolink

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...a-attack-metrolink-staff-bravery-15621599.amp

I'd rather have rude and unhelpful, but capable...

...than polite friendly customer service trained choco fireguards.

 

[Stigy]

...and stopped a terrorist. TSOs at Northern are employed by STM & shared with Metrolink

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...a-attack-metrolink-staff-bravery-15621599.amp

I'd rather have rude and unhelpful, but capable...

...than polite friendly customer service trained choco fireguards.

That’s unfortunately the misconception that a lot of people have. They seem to think that to get on in this sort of role TSOs/REOs etc need to be 6ft and built like a brick toilet. The reality is, that’s not what’s needed at all. There are some very capable people in these jobs who can handle themselves and simply “get the job done”, yet are strangely polite and courteous too.

Then there’s some who are horrible frankly. It really is swings and roundabouts.

 

[185]

As stated quite clearly in my post, I didn't at any point suggest they *had* to be rude as a requirement for the role or built like a brick kazee, but ...being proactive in ensuring passenger safety rather than running a mile / going in the opposite direction of obvious safety issues or network crime is a key basic standard of the job.

Quite interestingly a number of same members of the public repeatedly stick negative, ignorant comments on Twitter about the TSOs, asking "just what are they here to do" - I personally witnessed them stopping a robbery and catching the offenders... After the terrorism incident at Man Vic, if they want to slouch around playing on the phones all day so be it, as long as they are there and ready to intervene when crime, antisocial behaviour, staff assauts & ASB are happening.

 

[Geofront]

This forum's remarkable to visit every day. Here, you can find a lot of new things. I started to follow this forum since covid because I have to use trains instead of airplane flights. Thank you for sharing these posts and videos, guys.