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What's happening to First Manchester's buses coming off hire.

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ic31420

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Sorry if this is covered elsewhere. My knowledge in buses is somewhat limited.

Around Bolton the former First Manchester operation has been sold to Diamond buses. Who at the time of taking over hired the former first fleet on what I think was a hire and maintain deal while they sourced their own new buses.

This sourcing has been delayed by Wright buses woes.

Now we are told that there are vehicie shortages due to the old busses going off lease and no new buses appearing.

What are first doing with the off leased buses that means they don't want to extend the lease?
 
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carlberry

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Sorry if this is covered elsewhere. My knowledge in buses is somewhat limited.

Around Bolton the former First Manchester operation has been sold to Diamond buses. Who at the time of taking over hired the former first fleet on what I think was a hire and maintain deal while they sourced their own new buses.

This sourcing has been delayed by Wright buses woes.

Now we are told that there are vehicie shortages due to the old busses going off lease and no new buses appearing.

What are first doing with the off leased buses that means they don't want to extend the lease?
Using them to replace older buses that they haven't been able to replace because Wrights haven't been delivering.
 

winston270twm

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Sorry if this is covered elsewhere. My knowledge in buses is somewhat limited.

Around Bolton the former First Manchester operation has been sold to Diamond buses. Who at the time of taking over hired the former first fleet on what I think was a hire and maintain deal while they sourced their own new buses.

This sourcing has been delayed by Wright buses woes.

Now we are told that there are vehicie shortages due to the old busses going off lease and no new buses appearing.

What are first doing with the off leased buses that means they don't want to extend the lease?

There shouldn't be any vehicle shortages, there's plenty of spare capacity within Rotala Group to daft in buses to cover if needs be. The 12 plate E400's were returned to First by Bolton 6-12 months early, the 14 plate E400's were returned on time. Or alternatively Diamond NW could hire some in short term from the likes of Dawson Rentals / Mistral etc if there's a problem. Plenty of options.

I understand the 13 plate B7RLE's will also be returning off lease from Bolton in the next few months, same as the Diamond WM 13 plate examples from the same batch.
 

ic31420

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You best tell that to the allocators at Bolton. From what I gather they're usually 30 buses short a day..

I suppose it's not an issue if they're also 30 drivers short too. I believe there is some grumbling and grousing that first kept the best, reliable 50 drivers for their vantage service. Which along with an existing driver shortage means diamond are short.
 

carlberry

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I believe there is some grumbling and grousing that first kept the best, reliable 50 drivers for their vantage service. Which along with an existing driver shortage means diamond are short.
And that came as a surprise to them?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I suppose it's not an issue if they're also 30 drivers short too. I believe there is some grumbling and grousing that first kept the best, reliable 50 drivers for their vantage service. Which along with an existing driver shortage means diamond are short.

Perhaps I've made this up but I thought the Vantage drivers were on a dedicated rota anyway?

Winston is well known to have contacts with Simon Dunn via the WM page so the vehicle situation will be first hand. That they haven't enough drivers is something that has been cited rather than a shortage of vehicles..

As it is, the e400s returned to First have either gone in the main to South Yorkshire (to oust life expired B7TLs) or to Bath/Wells as part of a wider set of changes to upgrade services there with resultant cascades.
 

Alexbus12

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I suppose it's not an issue if they're also 30 drivers short too. I believe there is some grumbling and grousing that first kept the best, reliable 50 drivers for their vantage service. Which along with an existing driver shortage means diamond are short.

They're more than 30 drivers short
 

Alexbus12

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Perhaps I've made this up but I thought the Vantage drivers were on a dedicated rota anyway?

I believe First gave a number of drivers the choice to transfer to Rotala because originally the 582 was on the Vantage rota so they had too many drivers..

A lot of drivers have left Rotala since the take over because of the way they've been treated, not being paid the right amount and just general poor management from what I've been told..
 

robertclark125

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Could Rotala possibly lease vehicles in from another group, such as Stagecoach? It's a long shot, but it depends who has vehicles available.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I believe First gave a number of drivers the choice to transfer to Rotala because originally the 582 was on the Vantage rota so they had too many drivers..

A lot of drivers have left Rotala since the take over because of the way they've been treated, not being paid the right amount and just general poor management from what I've been told..

My understanding was that Vantage was on a dedicated rota and that the 582 was part of that in order to cycle the drivers to/from Bolton. So every Vantage was a dedicated driver but not every 582 was a Vantage driver. When the 582 passed to Diamond and Vantage became self contained, then they had a driver surplus?

Is that right?
 

winston270twm

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You best tell that to the allocators at Bolton. From what I gather they're usually 30 buses short a day..

I don't need to tell anyone anything, it's none of my business & there's always two sides to every story. I'm just pointing out the facts.....

There's currently 129 buses allocated to 'VOR' across the Rotala group, some are way beyond being considered for returning to service, other not so!

The number of vehicles allocated to Eccles (41) & Bolton (211), so I don't see how they can be 30 short unless they're all unfit for service.

Another group?

Winston has said they've said they have enough in the group but if they needed more, I'm sure they could go to Dawsons or Ensign if required.

Exactly, if they're so short of buses as stated, why are 12 plate ex First E400's being returned early....

Also, there was another Citaro & 2 x B7RLE originally earmarked to transfer to Bolton, they have never left the WM, I assume due to all the additional influx of new & used below:

The 19 ex Yourbus vehicles were never part of the plan.
Neither were the 3 extra new Streetdecks + additional ex demo's (40711-6)
Plus 1 x Streetlite ex Demo (32238)
 
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Alexbus12

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My understanding was that Vantage was on a dedicated rota and that the 582 was part of that in order to cycle the drivers to/from Bolton. So every Vantage was a dedicated driver but not every 582 was a Vantage driver. When the 582 passed to Diamond and Vantage became self contained, then they had a driver surplus?

Is that right?


Yeah.. I notice First are actively recruiting for Vantage drivers so I assume they're slightly short atm. Tbf, everywhere in Manchester is right now though.
 

Alexbus12

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I don't need to tell anyone anything, it's none of my business & there's always two sides to every story. I'm just pointing out the facts.....

There's currently 129 buses allocated to 'VOR' across the Rotala group, some are way beyond being considered for returning to service, other not so!

The number of vehicles allocated to Eccles (41) & Bolton (211), so I don't see how they can be 30 short unless they're all unfit for service.

There are a ridiculous amount which are VOR at Bolton because they can't get parts unless they pay cash in hand to certain suppliers given Rotalas history of not paying..
 

winston270twm

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There are a ridiculous amount which are VOR at Bolton because they can't get parts unless they pay cash in hand to certain suppliers given Rotalas history of not paying..

The VOR's I quoted are withdrawn buses. Other parts issues could be related to Wrightbus. If there was 15% of Bolton's fleet off the road, I sure the TC would be crawling all over Rotala.

Why don't you ask Simon ?
 

ic31420

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VoR.. vehicles off the road?

A few weeks ago I saw a flat back truck with 4/5 ZF gearboxes loaded on the back on Weston street, wondered if they were bus boxes going for recon.

Where does the line lie with parts that wrightbus would supply? I'm guessing they're mainly body parts and most of the mechanical oily bits would be from the chassis manufacturers/agents/truck and bus factors.

What sort of wrightbus parts would see a vehicle laid up?

I've often wondered who supplies bus window glass. Some of those windscreens look seriously bespoke and expensive.

Many moons ago remewhen blue bus was running I remember a driver telling me some of the ancient stuff they ran at the time was glazed by a plant glazier who did the flat glass to size. (The bus he was talking about always reminded me of a class 31 both in looks, progress and noise)
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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I have no interest in putting it to Simon. I'm sure he reads this thread.

Don't believe he does as he has reacted in surprise when some things on this board have appeared on WM Bus Photo forum.

To be fair, both he and Simon (Arriva Mids MD) take questions on there though, as I'm sure we all appreciate, he can't comment on anything that may impact their performance on the stock market. Other than that, he's pretty approachable so as long as it's respectful, then you can get the inside line.
 

Alexbus12

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The numbers weren't very accurate the last time.

Which ones? The 100 figure which came from both drivers and TFGM at the bus station who were telling passengers? I'm sure Simon wouldn't want the real scale of the inital problem exposed...

Anyway, this thread is becoming more of a conversation which nobody else is really interested in sooo...
 

winston270twm

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Which ones? The 100 figure which came from both drivers and TFGM at the bus station who were telling passengers? I'm sure Simon wouldn't want the real scale of the inital problem exposed...

Anyway, this thread is becoming more of a conversation which nobody else is really interested in sooo...

Ah drivers, the sources of all knowledge, it must be correct a driver said so.... :rolleyes:
 

Alexbus12

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Ah drivers, the sources of all knowledge, it must be correct a driver said so.... :rolleyes:

Given that what they were saying matched up with the ****e show of services which were operating, it was, and still isn't, hard not to believe.
 

DJ_K666

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Yeah.. I notice First are actively recruiting for Vantage drivers so I assume they're slightly short atm. Tbf, everywhere in Manchester is right now though.
Ugh... First Group. Given the way they have a reputation for treating their drivers I'd probably take my chances with Go-Ahead again
 

HA08

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Anyone know where the remaining loaned First B7RLE’s are headed as apparently some have been spotted on the road heading down south somewhere?
 
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