What's the current news on 60009 "Union of South Africa"?

Discussion in 'Railtours & Preservation' started by Peter C, 24 Sep 2019.

  1. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    Hello all,

    Having seen that in Feb. 2020 60009 is supposed to be on a railtour up the Cotswold Line, I was wondering - what's the current news on the loco? When I went to the Flying Scotsman event at Didcot Railway Centre in 2017, the news was that 60009 would be heading up to Scotland after this (either on a selection of railtours, slowly making her way up, or via another means). However, this doesn't seem to be true, as I saw her last year at Worcester Shrub Hill and then she is still working around the Cotswold Line in 2020 (not to say that's all she does).

    Does anyone know what the current news on her? Does anyone know? The last I heard she was destined for a museum in Scotland, but I haven't hears anything since.

    Thanks,

    -Peter


    Sorry if this has already been posted - I did a quick search and couldn't find anything.
     
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  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Member

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    The last I read regarding John Cameron's museum proposals was that planning permission had been refused and he was going to appeal the decision. That was several weeks ago and I've seen no update since.
     
  4. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    Thanks - interesting. :)

    -Peter
     
  5. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    The locomotive is still going to be permanently retired in mid 2020 though - it just might not be displayed where Mr Cameron originally intended it to be.
     
  6. Macwomble

    Macwomble Member

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    Now at the NYMR for the Autumn Steam Gala this weekend.
     
  7. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    OK - thanks both. :)

    -Peter
     
  8. Crawley Ben

    Crawley Ben Member

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    And in fine form the loco was too :smile:. I might have been mistaken, but I think I saw the owner on the footplate on one of the journeys at Grosmont station.

    Ben
     
  9. Spartacus

    Spartacus Established Member

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  10. Macwomble

    Macwomble Member

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    Correct! John Cameron was around the NYMR for the gala weekend.
     
  11. trebor79

    trebor79 Member

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    It's his loco of course, but what an incredibly selfish attitude. "It's mine, so I'm going to stuff it on my farm and nobody else is having it no matter how much they offer".
    Who's going to go visit his personal museum in the middle of nowhere, with 2 main exhibits, if he ever builds it?
    The decent thing to do would be donate the locos to some existing museum where they would actually be seen.
     
  12. The Lad

    The Lad Member

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    Up for driver experience runs on the East Lancs, deep pockets required though
     
  13. Alanko

    Alanko Member

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    I heartily agree. I live over the water in Edinburgh, so could easily manage the short hop to go see 60009 once interred. Would I bother? I saw this loco power through Dunblane station when I was a wee boy on some sort of special. Even with that personal connection I would have to find some sort of reason to be in the area anyway before ever going to see it on the owner's farm.
     
  14. Steamysandy

    Steamysandy Member

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    I saw it at Lochty during the 1967-1972 period.I remember my dad said it was like keeping a pet dragon!
     
  15. lil Bear

    lil Bear Member

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    What are they charging?
     
  16. markindurham

    markindurham Member

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    Selfish? Hardly. If it wasn't for Mr Cameron, Number Nine would have been broken up on withdrawal. He's now owned her for over 50 years. It's his own pocket that has funded several overhauls and some unscheduled repair periods. As he himself has said, 60009 could have another 10 year overhaul, but the same cannot be said for himself...

    At least she'll be safe, and who knows what the future might bring for her?
     
  17. Rhinojerry

    Rhinojerry Member

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    Not as much as the Americans had to fork out at Strasbourg last weekend and this.dont think they even got a half day.
     
  18. trebor79

    trebor79 Member

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    Exactly. Time to sell her on to someone who wants to keep running her, or loan to a museum where people will actually see her.
     
  19. markindurham

    markindurham Member

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    Sorry, but once you start dictating what people can do with their own property in the way you're suggesting, you're on a VERY slippery slope.
     
  20. Bevan Price

    Bevan Price Established Member

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    Yes, we must thank Mr Cameron for saving 60009. And also consider that major overhauls of large steam locos can be very expensive -- possibly £1,000,000 or more in some cases.
     
  21. trebor79

    trebor79 Member

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    I'm not dictating what he should do. He's perfectly entitled to entomb it in his personal "museum". It is after all his property as you point out.
    I just think it's a very selfish thing to do.
     
  22. Rhinojerry

    Rhinojerry Member

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    Quite agree Bevan,
     
  23. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    Am I right in saying he got his planning permission denied? or is the museum still going ahead? Given 09 is the only A4 I've ever seen in Steam, t'll be a shame to see her put away as a static piece.
     
  24. Macwomble

    Macwomble Member

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    Last I read was permission was refused. I believe his other loco, 61994 The Great Marquess, is currently stored at Bo'ness as it's well out of ticket &, again, is not being restored.
     
  25. E759

    E759 Member

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    It’s in the brilliant Museum of Scottish Railways so can be viewed.
     
  26. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    Indeed, given the relatively short and unpicturesque line, that museum absolutely makes up for everything and then some!
     
  27. johnr57

    johnr57 Member

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    We should be thankful to John Cameron for the pleasure he has provided to us at his not inconsiderable expense, i for one am very saddened by her imminent departure from the main lines but have many memories and pictures of her that without JC's devotion would never have materialised.
    I met him on Waverley station and had the opportunity to personally thank him, finding him to be a very proud, gracious gentleman and clearly understands the effect of her retirement on the heritage movement. Although he is adamant she will retire i hear others are trying to persuade him otherwise - i wish them well.
    i believe the planned museum will also celebrate his other great occupation - Scottish agriculture, which will make a rather odd combination. No9 is his after all and he should be allowed to do what he wishes with her - its not up to us to so dictate.
     
  28. 2392

    2392 Member

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    Indeed whilst yes it is saddening to see No.9 go out of service and moving into a "museum". Bear in mind there's always "tomorrow", by that I mean, once both Gresley and Bittern are beyond economic repair/overhaul No.9 would could be possibly overhauled and returned to service, at some point in the future...........
     
  29. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    Yep - "never say never" and all that.... :D

    -Peter
     
  30. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    Forever is a long time.. As others have said who knows what will happen in the future? Even if John Cameron gets to build his museum it still need's to cover it's costs. Many have questioned the viability of such a museum especially in it's preferred location. If they can't earn the money the custodians may have no choice to either sell or loan out the engines to preservation groups or another museum.
     
  31. Peter Mugridge

    Peter Mugridge Established Member

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    Judging from comment on Twitter in the last couple of days, planning permission has now been granted...

    ...for everything except the locomotive shed part of the project!
     

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