When did Virgin Trains withdraw their restaurant car?

[ryan125hst]

I have been looking on the Wayback Machine at the catering provision on trains in the past. I know that East Coast withdrew the restaurant car and replaced it with complementary first class catering in May 2011, and First Great Western got rid of Travelling Chefs in 2014 (retaining a few Pullman services).

However, even as far back as 2004, Virgin Trains were offering complementary breakfasts in first class from what I can see, as well as hot food during the rest of the day.

So did Virgin get rid of the restaurant service when they introduced the Pendolinos and Voyagers, or was it scrapped earlier than this?

 

[Failed Unit]

I think immediately they took over. I had the complementary offer on the mk2’s

 

[Mag_seven]

I think immediately they took over. I had the complementary offer on the mk2’s

I can recall a having a meal in a Virgin restaurant car in 1998 so it must have been later than that. Don't forget hauled stock was still in use as late as about 2004ish.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think immediately they took over. I had the complementary offer on the mk2’s

It's at least a little later than that. I dug out some info from the Wayback Machine for a thread I started about restaurant cars and found an entry from the year 2000 which still included a restaurant car offering but, and this must be what you remember, also mentioned that first class passengers got a complimentary offer. The link is here (click on "Food and drink" on the left hand side).

My feeling is that they survived up to or maybe just before the 390s and 221s arrived.

 

[Failed Unit]

Ok. That makes sense. I probably had the complementary offer in the restaurant. I guess the new stock made that not possible as the kitchen position made it not possible.

 

[Bald Rick]

The complementary food and drink started fairly quickly after Virgin took over. Breakfast didn’t really change, it was more or less the same offering, just free. Lunch and dinner did change, obviously. From memory, it took a little while to settle down, both in terms of menus and service. I know with absolute certainty that it was the new service on the Birmingham route no later than late ‘98, and I suspect somewhat earlier.

I think that a select few longer distance trains to the NW and Scotland retained the ‘restaurant’ as an option for lunch / dinner for a little longer. Whether they did much trade or not I don’t know.

Edit: seen the link to the archive, and it seems consistent with this.

 

[CheshireCrusty]

Yes - I seem to recall the first class free food and drink came in on the franchise change. I was invited on a freebie London trip from Manchester on a Saturday when the franchise started in 1997 so that they could show us as potential customers what the First Class offering would be, and hosted by Chris Green. I still have the teddy bear somewhere! This was on the Mk3 inherited stock. It was a good investment in me - I quickly qualified for the Traveller Club and the last time I flew a domestic flight was 11th September 2001!

I am not sure whether there was a full buffet car service for standard passengers until the 390s and 220/1s introduced the shop in the early 2000s.

 

[ryan125hst]

Thanks for the replies all.

Virgin removed the restaurant car far before any other train operating companies did in that case. It must have been successful though given that other TOC's followed suit.

 

[snail]

I miss the restaurant. On less busy services it was a very cheap 1st upgrade as they would let 2nd Class / Standard ticket holders stay there for the whole journey!

 

[ryan125hst]

I've never used a restaurant car on a train, but having looked at historical menus online, I think it's a shame that they have been withdrawn. While first class passengers are taken care off, for standard class passengers, cooked breakfasts and hot meals seem to be almost none existent these days which I think is a real shame.

 

[6Gman]

I've never used a restaurant car on a train, but having looked at historical menus online, I think it's a shame that they have been withdrawn. While first class passengers are taken care off, for standard class passengers, cooked breakfasts and hot meals seem to be almost none existent these days which I think is a real shame.

I think the problem was that Std Class passengers ended up occupying two seats. One in Std and one in the Restaurant Car. Certainly my experience on the occasions I used the RC.

 

[ainsworth74]

If I could find the ruddy link I'd signpost you to the thread I started recently on this theme around restaurant cars and whether or not they were pitched at the wrong target audience (silver service and fine dining rather than the slightly more down to earth approach taken on the continent). But the Forum search is having a temporary wobbler so sadly can't track it down currently.

 

[randyrippley]

I miss the restaurant. On less busy services it was a very cheap 1st upgrade as they would let 2nd Class / Standard ticket holders stay there for the whole journey!

It was part of the deal on the London bound evening services, take a meal and stay in first for the whole trip. Did it many times from Lancaster. Food on the Scottish crewed services was excellent - the venison was always outstanding, while BR's wine list was very very good. Wine went downmarket after the Virgin takeover with a lot of rubbish on the list.
My memory is that the arrangement stayed until the Pendolinos appeared

 

[47271]

It's not quite true that East Coast operated a restaurant until 2011. They provided a paid for meal service in First Class, and it was really quite good. Their complimentary replacement was good too, it was only the hideous James Martin VTEC effort from 2015 that saw standards nosedive. Thankfully a thing of the past, the 'gourmet' sausage roll is now an appropriate subject for the history and nostalgia section.

I'm not sure who killed the restaurant on the ECML. National Express in their brief and disastrous period are the most likely suspects, their pricing emptied First Class for sure.

 

[ainsworth74]

It's not quite true that East Coast operated a restaurant until 2011. They provided a paid for meal service in First Class, and it was really quite good. Their complimentary replacement was good too, it was only the hideous James Martin VTEC effort from 2015 that saw standards nosedive. Thankfully a thing of the past, the 'gourmet' sausage roll is now an appropriate subject for the history and nostalgia section.

I'm not sure who killed the restaurant on the ECML. National Express in their brief and disastrous period are the most likely suspects, their pricing emptied First Class for sure.

East Coast operated a full restaurant car service on a limited number of services right through until May 2011. I should know I used one of the last ones from Edinburgh!

NXEC did cut back on the number of restaurant car services operated compared to GNER (who had increased the number compared to BR) to basically just peak time departures and introduced At-Seat Dining to compensate for first class passengers (with standard class able to order and take it back to their seat in a similar fashion to GWR's Travelling Chef) and this was available on the vast majority of services (at least on the Anglo-Scot route, I think it was a little hit and miss on Leeds - London).

 

[ainsworth74]

Details of the restaurant service offered by East Coast can be found here (with thank to the Wayback Machine) from February 2011 shortly before the withdrawal in May 2011.

 

[ainsworth74]

Aha! Here is my thread that I mentioned earlier in case anyone is interested in more detail behind my reasoning:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...because-of-targeting-the-wrong-market.192747/

 

[ryan125hst]

Thanks for the link ainsworth74, I'll reply on that thread