When does a travel card start to be vaild in a day?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by hawaii2468, 31 Oct 2011.

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  1. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    I have only heard of that the latest time that a travel card valid was until 2am the next day. So how about the earliest time that a travel card is valid ?
     
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  3. sonic2009

    sonic2009 Established Member

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    Peak Time Travelcards valid from Midnight - 04:29am next day.

    Off Peak Travelcards valid from 09:30am - 04:29am next day.
     
  4. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    How about the national rail services?
     
  5. LondonJohn

    LondonJohn Member

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    As has been mentioned you can use a travel card on any of the accepted methods of transport during the times, 24hours of use for an Anytime (Peak) travelcard after 0930 for an offpeak travelcard. Some outer boundary travel cards allow slightly earlier travel than 0930 on an off peak travelcard
     
  6. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

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    Within London it's still 9.30am on weekdays.

    If it's an out-boundary Travelcard then it could be different, eg at my local station (Sittingbourne, Kent) the first train I can catch (weekdays) is the first one to arrive in London after 10am, which equates to the 9:03 to Victoria or the 9:07 to St. Pancras.
     
  7. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    and...Super Off-Peak travelcard from 11am onwards with no return journey allowed between 4-7pm on Mon-Fri
     
  8. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    The travelcard has always been valid until 4.29am the following day. If it is an out-boundary travelcard then it used to be 2.30am but NR have recently bought their day into line with TfL's day so they both now finish at 4.29am.

    An anytime travelcard, or an off-peak one at weekends, is valid from midnight until 4.29am the following day, ie 28.5 hours. The confusion arises where the Oyster daily price cap runs from 4.30am to 4.29am the next day. However, that is a price cap, not a travelcard. An Oystercard DOES NOT become a day travelcard as soon as the daily price cap is met.

    And these restrictions only apply to travel outside of zones 1-6. You are free to use the travelcard within the zones between 9.30am and 4.29am the next day (or all day at weekends).
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Only for those fares priced by SWT with restriction code BD.

    For example, a Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard from Southampton Central carries restriction code BE and is not valid for outbound journeys before 1200 on weekdays.
     
  10. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    That of course is not valid for outward journeys arriving in London before 1200 on weekdays; as opposed to departing Southampton Central...
     
  11. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    There's still a discrepancy - on TfL services a journey is valid so long as it *started* before 0430. On NR you have to have completed your journey by then.
     
  12. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Not what it says in my Avantix.

     
  13. londonbridge

    londonbridge Member

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    Some while back I had a travelcard which I'd bought in advance,the date it was valid for was a Saturday,the barriers at Victoria rejected it at three minutes past midnight on the Friday night/Saturday morning.
     
  14. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

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    I suspect barriers don't have a very accurate clock. I presume you had no trouble after showing a member of staff?
     
  15. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    The barriers are pretty accurate, on weekdays we've been told that Freedom passes will open the barrier at exactly 9:28am and onwards, and when we tried that with a passenger it worked perfectly. It could be that there was a block set up on certain discounted tickets or ticket types or that it was demagnetised already :lol:
     
  16. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Misprint in earlier editions of Avantix Traveller, I think. 'The Manual' NFM10 says:

    "Trains arriving at 12:00 or later"
     
  17. hawaii2468

    hawaii2468 Member

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    Save for instance, a London zone 1-6 travel card advertised as 05 NOV 2011 (Saturday), when is the earliest hour can I use it on the tube, bus and national rail?
     
  18. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    0001 on 5th November, ie, beginning of Saturday, and valid until 0430 on Sunday 6th November.
     
  19. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

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    Why isn't it valid from midnight?
     
  20. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    It probably is, but why be so pedantic, it's not as if 1 minutes wait is life or death, there's not so many trains at that time of the evening anyway! :lol:
     
  21. Caped Crusader

    Caped Crusader Member

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    What about an Travelcard from say Three Bridges or Gatwick to London Zones 1-6? There is an overnight service, can you use it on a train at 01:00 (just a hypothetical time) then subsequently from 09:30 later on the same day?
     
  22. Bungle73

    Bungle73 On Moderation

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    It is if the train you want to catch leaves at 00:00

    Exactly. ;)
     
  23. Urban Gateline

    Urban Gateline Established Member

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    Use it on a train where?

    There is unlimited travel in Z1-6 at that time you stated, but only one return Journey can be made from Three Bridges or Gatwick to the Z6 Boundary, so if you are suggesting two journeys from either Three Bridges or Gatwick into the Zones then this isn't permitted.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---

    Fair point, the only suggestion to ensure you don't miss that train then is to find the Gateline staff member (if the Barriers are actually in operation at that time, which I highly doubt would be the case!) and ask them politely a few minutes before midnight if you can go through and onto the platform. :D
     
    Last edited: 2 Nov 2011
  24. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No such thing exists. I'd be interested in an example. You will see timings such as 0001 or 2359 but not 0000 or 2400 due to the potential for confusion.

    0000 and 2400 do not exist in railway publicity or National Express publicity AFAIK.
     
  25. Caped Crusader

    Caped Crusader Member

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    Sorry I didn't make myself clear so I'll try again.

    You are travelling from Three Bridges to London Bridge on a train at 01:25 (technically this train is an Off Peak train according to National Rail Enquiries). Can you use an Off Peak Travelcard to travel into London on this train and then use the same ticket for travel in Zones 1-6 (as long as you travel in London after 09:30) on the same day?

    This would be considerably cheaper than buying a single to London Bridge then one day Zone 1-6 Travelcard.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 2 Nov 2011
  26. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    No, you may not, on a weekday. It is of course fine on a Saturday or a Sunday.

    The restrictions on a

    Three Bridges - London Zones 1-6
    Route Any Permitted or Route Not Gatwick Exp
    Off-Peak Day Travelcard

    state:

    If your travelcard is Route FCC Only, then the relevant restrictions are:

    The travelcard dated for the day before would of course be valid for travel on the 0125 into central London, provided that the outboundary portion of that ticket has not yet been used, however this ticket ceases to be valid at 0430, if you have not started your journey by then (inside the zones) or if you have not finished your journey by then (outside the zones on NR).
     
  27. Caped Crusader

    Caped Crusader Member

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    So what you are saying is, even though I can buy an Off Peak Single ticket to travel on that Off Peak train, I cannot buy an Off Peak Travelcard and use it within the restrictions of a normal Off Peak Travelcard.

    If you go by the book ,technically, the 01:25 is a Peak train because the easements won't apply unless you bought the ticket the day before! Even though National Rail Enquiries tell me otherwise.

    :lol:
     
  28. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Only the Route FCC Only fare has an Off-Peak Day Single, all other routes only offer Anytime Day Singles.

    In theory, yes. If you bought an Off-Peak ticket dated the day before then you may use it on the 0125, but not if the ticket is dated for the day you actually want to travel. In the latter case, the ticket will also be subject to the minimum fare if you have a 16-25 railcard, on weekdays. In reality though, if you managed to obtain the ticket in advance, it wouldn't matter unless you run into a really nasty RPI.

    Rail travel is
    [​IMG]
     
  29. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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    This thread is a good example of why confusion arises from describing any service as a Peak train or an Off-Peak train. There's no such thing. There are Peak and Off-Peak tickets, and on many, many trains Off-Peak tickets for one journey may be valid and for a different journey not valid.

    Taking the specific example of a Three Bridges - London Zones 1-6 Off-Peak Day Travelcard, we know from the Restrictions quoted in post #25 by bb21 that this is not valid Monday - Friday on the date shown on the ticket prior to 0926 (route FCC only) or arriving in London before 0950 (route Any Permitted). But the railway "day" now extends to 0430 on the day after the expiry date shown on the ticket. By 0125 on that day, the ticket passes the validity test in post #25. It is therefore valid.
     
  30. Caped Crusader

    Caped Crusader Member

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    Thanks John, but what about the validity of Freedom Passes or Railcards before 04:29. Are they only valid if the ticket was purchased the day before?

    I know it's a technicality and I may be taking it a bit too far, but these situations do exist on a daily basis.
     
  31. John @ home

    John @ home Established Member Fares Advisor

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    This depends on whether travel is by bus, Underground, Overground, DLR, National Rail, Tram or River Service. See When and where you can use your pass. With a valid Freedom Pass used at the appropriate time of day, a ticket is needed on River Services only.
    This depends on the Conditions of the particular Railcard.
     
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