When might night tube reopen?

choochoochoo

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Anybody in the know heard any rumours about when the night tube might get back up and running ?

Leisure travel has picked up much better than commuter travel, is has to be reaching close to pre-pandemic demands, judging by the crush on the last trains of the night on friday/saturday.
 
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bramling

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Anybody in the know heard any rumours about when the night tube might get back up and running ?

Leisure travel has picked up much better than commuter travel, is has to be reaching close to pre-pandemic demands, judging by the crush on the last trains of the night on friday/saturday.

Who knows!

Night Tube has been used as a spring board to provide full-time drivers. This has cushioned the effect of 18 months of disrupted training and the flood of retirements.

There’s certainly an aspiration to bring it back, albeit a weak one, but I think it will be resource-led; in other words when there are enough drivers to do it without disrupting the day service too heavily.

I’d suggest it’s a bit of a non-starter at the moment with the number of daytime cancellations still quite high, though some lines are worse than others. Perhaps this may mean it returns sooner in some lines than others.
 

Mike395

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They’re hiring for Night Tube CSA roles currently so it’s likely in the next 3-6 months - but yes, as for an exact date who knows at this point.
 

Mojo

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They’re hiring for Night Tube CSA roles currently so it’s likely in the next 3-6 months - but yes, as for an exact date who knows at this point.
It’s worth pointing out that most CSAs on the regular “full time” roster working at stations served by the night service finish at or around 23.00 on Friday & Saturday nights and don’t start until 07.00 on Saturday & Sunday mornings. This means that there is the immediate need to keep this role resourced to near the required establishment, in order to ensure that stations stay open for the regular service in late evenings and early mornings, regardless of how soon the night service resumes, to avoid disrupting services at the start and close of traffic on these days.
 

bcarmicle

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It’s worth pointing out that most CSAs on the regular “full time” roster working at stations served by the night service finish at or around 23.00 on Friday & Saturday nights and don’t start until 07.00 on Saturday & Sunday mornings. This means that there is the immediate need to keep this role resourced to near the required establishment, in order to ensure that stations stay open for the regular service in late evenings and early mornings, regardless of how soon the night service resumes, to avoid disrupting services at the start and close of traffic on these days.
What happened before the Night Tube--does this grade predate Night Tube (with a different name?), or were full-time CSAs rosters restricted with the introduction of Night Tube?
 

Mojo

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What happened before the Night Tube--does this grade predate Night Tube (with a different name?), or were full-time CSAs rosters restricted with the introduction of Night Tube?
Before the night service, and at stations that aren’t served by the night service, CSAs duties cover(ed) from start of traffic to close of traffic, just like they do on the rest of the week.

I ought to add that it’s not a restriction whereby duties aren’t allowed to start/finish during these times; some CSA duties on Friday nights - Sunday mornings do start before or finish after 7am / 11pm as required by business needs.
 

Snow1964

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TfL have an upcoming bus changes webpage, there is a strange entry for night route N29, where there is a temporary frequency increase until 2 January 2022. So I wonder if night tube resumes following weekend 7th January (I might be guessing wrong)

A temporary timetable will be introduced on route N29 which will increase the frequency of the service on Friday and Saturday nights to every 8-9 minutes. The frequency will remain at every 10 minutes on all other nights of the week. This increase is temporary until 2nd January 2022 but will be kept under review.

The part about being kept under review suggests date isn’t confirmed, but Friday 7th January is target date to resume night tube.

 
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Mikey C

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It will be interesting to see passenger number trends on night buses in both directions

The number of late night revellers going home will of course have been massively lower (though recovering now), but essential workers also rely on night buses to get into London
 

ChrisC

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TfL have an upcoming bus changes webpage, there is a strange entry for night route N29, where there is a temporary frequency increase until 2 January 2022. So I wonder if night tube resumes following weekend 7th January (I might be guessing wrong)

The part about being kept under review suggests date isn’t confirmed, but Friday 7th January is target date to resume night tube.
I wonder if the frequency of the N5, which runs the route of the Northern Line out to Edgware, will be increased at weekends? I remember that before the night tube it ran every 10 minutes at weekends but is currently only every 30 minutes. When I used it a few years ago before the night tube, the first few buses out of London after 1.00am were sometimes standing room only even with the 10 minute frequency.
 

Mikey C

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I wonder if the frequency of the N5, which runs the route of the Northern Line out to Edgware, will be increased at weekends? I remember that before the night tube it ran every 10 minutes at weekends but is currently only every 30 minutes. When I used it a few years ago before the night tube, the first few buses out of London after 1.00am were sometimes standing room only even with the 10 minute frequency.
In general, where night buses have been drastically pared back due to a (currently not operating) night tube service, TfL need to respond to the growth in leisure travel and reopening of nightlife
 

A60stock

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I do think that if the Night tube does reopen, there should be a reconsideration of the services operated.

E.g.
Did stanmore to wembley need a train every 10?
Did the Piccadilly, with its ageing stock need to send every train beyond Northfields?
Are there cases for the West Ruislip and Uxbridge branches of the Central and Piccadilly lines respectively to be brought in?
Is there a case for bringing in some of the SSR lines into the mix?
 

NSE

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Cannot wait for this to happen. Infernos dance floor to Morden in half hour. Booooom

plus the time to unstick your shoes from the dance floor.
 

Horizon22

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Report today suggesting update “in the next few weeks” Interestingly this has (apparently) received extra attention due to the recent high-profile female murders in London.

I’ve personally seen - and had friends tell me - some night buses absolutely packed and whizzing past packed stops on a couple of Friday / Saturday nights.

 
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sjoh

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From TfL to a local councillor in Waltham Forest:

“I am writing to confirm that the Night Tube will be returning in time for the busy Christmas period, after being suspended since March 2020 due to the pandemic.
Services on the Central and Victoria lines will run throughout the night on Fridays and Saturdays from Saturday 27 November, providing more options for customers who need to travel at night either for leisure or for work, while also making journey times shorter and offering safer routes home for women, girls and all Londoners. We continue to run as many services as possible, whilst seeking to secure the long-term, sustainable Government funding needed to go on supporting London’s recovery.
The Central and Victoria lines were previously two of the busiest lines on the Night Tube network and provide crucial links between large parts of London and the centre of the city. Restoring night running on these lines will help businesses like bars, clubs and restaurants as London’s night-time economy continues to recover following the pandemic.
The Night Tube offers a safe, low crime environment, with more than 2,500 police and police community support officers and 500 TfL enforcement officers patrolling London’s transport network, thousands of frontline transport staff to support customers, and an extensive CCTV network across the Tube.
We operate one of the most extensive night bus networks in the world, and it continues to ensure everyone can travel around the capital whatever the hour. Well over a hundred routes currently run through the night, while licensed and regulated taxis and private hire vehicles provide door to door transport at all times of the day. The Tube continues to operate between approximately 05:30 and 00:30 through central London from Monday to Saturday, and we also started running some trains earlier on Sunday mornings to help customers travel at those times.
As London has begun to emerge from the pandemic, off-peak leisure travel has been recovering more quickly than other types of journeys, indicating that there is strong demand for services that run later into the night at the weekend. There is now regularly more than 55 per cent of journeys compared to before the pandemic on the Tube network on weekdays, but that has reached as high as 80 per cent at weekends. Overall figures indicate that use of London’s public transport network is at around 70 per cent of pre-pandemic levels and that millions of Londoners are returning to the transport network, showing they have confidence that it is safe, clean and reliable.
The Night Tube was suspended during the pandemic because drivers have been needed to ensure that the Tube service during the day - where demand has been higher - is as frequent as possible. Like other businesses across the city, we were also impacted by staff absences due to the major disruption caused by the pandemic, at a time when Tube ridership dropped by over 90 per cent.
The pandemic also affected our ability to train new drivers to replace those who have left. However, Night Tube drivers were recently offered the opportunity to convert from their part-time roles to permanent full-time roles, boosting our ability to provide a good overnight service, while also benefitting drivers and meaning overnight services can now resume on the busiest two lines. Training still needs to take place on the other Night Tube lines – the Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines – so Night Tube services on those lines can return as soon as possible. The return of these lines also has to be planned around complex vital operational and engineering closures.
I hope this information is useful, and please do let me know if you have any questions.”
 

A60stock

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Excellent new.

Although I wish they had given consideration to the West Ruislip branch (or at least to Northolt) of the Central line!
 

bramling

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From TfL to a local councillor in Waltham Forest:

“I am writing to confirm that the Night Tube will be returning in time for the busy Christmas period, after being suspended since March 2020 due to the pandemic.
Services on the Central and Victoria lines will run throughout the night on Fridays and Saturdays from Saturday 27 November, providing more options for customers who need to travel at night either for leisure or for work, while also making journey times shorter and offering safer routes home for women, girls and all Londoners. We continue to run as many services as possible, whilst seeking to secure the long-term, sustainable Government funding needed to go on supporting London’s recovery.
The Central and Victoria lines were previously two of the busiest lines on the Night Tube network and provide crucial links between large parts of London and the centre of the city. Restoring night running on these lines will help businesses like bars, clubs and restaurants as London’s night-time economy continues to recover following the pandemic.
The Night Tube offers a safe, low crime environment, with more than 2,500 police and police community support officers and 500 TfL enforcement officers patrolling London’s transport network, thousands of frontline transport staff to support customers, and an extensive CCTV network across the Tube.
We operate one of the most extensive night bus networks in the world, and it continues to ensure everyone can travel around the capital whatever the hour. Well over a hundred routes currently run through the night, while licensed and regulated taxis and private hire vehicles provide door to door transport at all times of the day. The Tube continues to operate between approximately 05:30 and 00:30 through central London from Monday to Saturday, and we also started running some trains earlier on Sunday mornings to help customers travel at those times.
As London has begun to emerge from the pandemic, off-peak leisure travel has been recovering more quickly than other types of journeys, indicating that there is strong demand for services that run later into the night at the weekend. There is now regularly more than 55 per cent of journeys compared to before the pandemic on the Tube network on weekdays, but that has reached as high as 80 per cent at weekends. Overall figures indicate that use of London’s public transport network is at around 70 per cent of pre-pandemic levels and that millions of Londoners are returning to the transport network, showing they have confidence that it is safe, clean and reliable.
The Night Tube was suspended during the pandemic because drivers have been needed to ensure that the Tube service during the day - where demand has been higher - is as frequent as possible. Like other businesses across the city, we were also impacted by staff absences due to the major disruption caused by the pandemic, at a time when Tube ridership dropped by over 90 per cent.
The pandemic also affected our ability to train new drivers to replace those who have left. However, Night Tube drivers were recently offered the opportunity to convert from their part-time roles to permanent full-time roles, boosting our ability to provide a good overnight service, while also benefitting drivers and meaning overnight services can now resume on the busiest two lines. Training still needs to take place on the other Night Tube lines – the Jubilee, Northern and Piccadilly lines – so Night Tube services on those lines can return as soon as possible. The return of these lines also has to be planned around complex vital operational and engineering closures.
I hope this information is useful, and please do let me know if you have any questions.”

Given how both these lines continue to suffer from crewing-related cancellations (as much as 40% of the Central Line service cancelled at one point last Saturday, and nearly 50% on the Victoria Line, I believe), reintroducing Night Tube seems quite bizarre. Politically motivated, of course.
 

theking

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When the night tube was running there were many reports on the BBC of women's groups and feminists saying its a rapists paradise and sexual assaults are rife.


Now they're making out like it's some kind of utopia for women.

They can't even run a day weekend service let alone the night tube.
 

bramling

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When the night tube was running there were many reports on the BBC of women's groups and feminists saying its a rapists paradise and sexual assaults are rife.


Now they're making out like it's some kind of utopia for women.

They can't even run a day weekend service let alone the night tube.

Night Tube certainly isn’t a utopia. It was a pretty hostile environment at times.
 

choochoochoo

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Should be grateful it's opening up again - But 2 lines only. It's going to be packed !!

AND I wouldn't want to walk in the vicinity of any of the stations north of kings cross on the Victoria Line late at night

I suppose it makes the cab home a little cheaper.
 

Horizon22

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Given how both these lines continue to suffer from crewing-related cancellations (as much as 40% of the Central Line service cancelled at one point last Saturday, and nearly 50% on the Victoria Line, I believe), reintroducing Night Tube seems quite bizarre. Politically motivated, of course.

Indeed this is a concern. I don't necessarily want to see the night tube return (although I may benefit) at the expense of further disruption in the daytime, particularly at weekends. Maybe the crewing position will be more stable in a month.
 

Taunton

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From TfL to a local councillor in Waltham Forest:

The Night Tube offers a safe, low crime environment
Clearly written by someone who never travelled on the Night Tube. The safe, low crime environment is surely a taxi.

The Night Tube was suspended during the pandemic because drivers have been needed to ensure that the Tube service during the day - where demand has been higher - is as frequent as possible.
I think the rest of us thought it was suspended because nobody was on it, and it was thus a costly waste. And the "as frequent as possible" daytime service at the time it was suspended was pretty much empty stock as well.
 

43066

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Clearly written by someone who never travelled on the Night Tube. The safe, low crime environment is surely a taxi.

Is there specific evidence that night tube is risked than other modes of transport?

It’s pretty safe in general terms, London is generally a fairly safe city despite the hystsria around the two (appalling
but exceedingly rare) recent murders of women by strangers. Like late night London generally, night tube can be a little hostile feeling at times due to rowdy drunks and low lifes, but I personally would have no compunction about using it. I say that as a male and, as such, I’m several orders of magnitude more likely to be either attacked or murdered than a female!

Based on my experiences of mini cabs over the years, including a couple of occasions where drivers have tried to charge different fares to what had been agreed, and then become threatening when I refused to pay up, I’m not sure taxis can be relied on as totally safe either. Especially for individuals travelling late at night in an inebriated state.

I think the rest of us thought it was suspended because nobody was on it, and it was thus a costly waste. And the "as frequent as possible" daytime service at the time it was suspended was pretty much empty stock as well.

As someone who uses the tube most days, and has done so throughout the pandemic, I can assure you that apart from a few weeks early on, the tube hasn’t resembled empty stock at any point.
 

AlbertBeale

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Is there specific evidence that night tube is risked than other modes of transport?

It’s pretty safe in general terms, London is generally a fairly safe city despite the hystsria around the two (appalling
but exceedingly rare) recent murders of women by strangers. Like late night London generally, night tube can be a little hostile feeling at times due to rowdy drunks and low lifes, but I personally would have no compunction about using it. I say that as a male and, as such, I’m several orders of magnitude more likely to be either attacked or murdered than a female!

Based on my experiences of mini cabs over the years, including a couple of occasions where drivers have tried to charge different fares to what had been agreed, and then become threatening when I refused to pay up, I’m not sure taxis can be relied on as totally safe either. Especially for individuals travelling late at night in an inebriated state.

[The above was in response to Taunton saying:
Clearly written by someone who never travelled on the Night Tube. The safe, low crime environment is surely a taxi.]

You [43066] are mixing up taxis with "mini-cabs" here. The latter can indeed often be dodgy. London licensed taxis very very rarely so. "Mini-cabs", private hire, Ubers, etc, are not taxis.
 

43066

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[The above was in response to Taunton saying:
Clearly written by someone who never travelled on the Night Tube. The safe, low crime environment is surely a taxi.]

You [43066] are mixing up taxis with "mini-cabs" here. The latter can indeed often be dodgy. London licensed taxis very very rarely so. "Mini-cabs", private hire, Ubers, etc, are not taxis.

To be pedantic black cabs are hackney carriages, which can ply for hire, whereas minicabs cannot. Both are taxis according to the generally understood definition of the word.

You’re right they’re generally a safer bet, albeit I’ve also had some rather bad experiences with black cabs (in a previous life I used them a fair bit for work). They’re also rather beyond the price range of your average Londoner, albeit Uber is often also ludicrously expensive and increasingly unreliable in my recent experience.
 

Busaholic

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Is there specific evidence that night tube is risked than other modes of transport?

It’s pretty safe in general terms, London is generally a fairly safe city despite the hystsria around the two (appalling
but exceedingly rare) recent murders of women by strangers. Like late night London generally, night tube can be a little hostile feeling at times due to rowdy drunks and low lifes, but I personally would have no compunction about using it. I say that as a male and, as such, I’m several orders of magnitude more likely to be either attacked or murdered than a female!
Factual inaccuracies there - male homicide rates are slightly less than double the female, so not 'several orders of magnitude'. Far more lone males than lone females are travelling on night tube for, I'd have thought, very obvious reasons. As for the hysteria accusation, words fail me...
 

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