• If you're having issues logging in following the maintenance last weekend, please clear your browser cache and cookies - this should then allow you to login without issue (and will only need doing once)

When might night tube reopen?

Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

SynthD

Member
Joined
4 Apr 2020
Messages
271
Location
UK
I thought the night tube was only coming back because TfL had agreed with the unions how it would be staffed. Was that true at one point?
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
14,026
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
I thought the night tube was only coming back because TfL had agreed with the unions how it would be staffed. Was that true at one point?

The real issue is two things - firstly the review of pension arrangements instigated by the government as part of the financial package, and secondly a workstream looking at train crewing arrangements, which is also primarily an efficiency measure.

Both of these have the potential to be rather incendiary, especially if anything is done which affects pensions.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
15,665
Location
West of Andover
I thought the night tube was only coming back because TfL had agreed with the unions how it would be staffed. Was that true at one point?

Wouldn't surprise me if the RMT originally agreed to a deal but decided to backtrack on acceptance of said deal to try and backmail TfL into giving them more money
 

Mawkie

Member
Joined
17 Feb 2016
Messages
80
I thought the night tube was only coming back because TfL had agreed with the unions how it would be staffed. Was that true at one point?
Partly true; ASLEF agreed.

RMT did not agree with the staffing model, but agreed to postpone strike action whilst LUL agreed to investigate alternative models. LUL decided to impose rosters, hence the strike action being called.
 

LU_timetabler

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2017
Messages
154
Central, Vic and Jub are the end of this month (November).
Pic and Northern are postponed until major track work is complete.
 

LU_timetabler

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2017
Messages
154
Is that the Bank and South Kensington works?
Bank = yes. Picc has South Harrow Sidings expansion works, and several other ongoing works related to Picc Line Upgrade that need to be completed prior to Night Tube restarting.
 

ChrisC

Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
729
Location
Nottinghamshire
Bank = yes. Picc has South Harrow Sidings expansion works, and several other ongoing works related to Picc Line Upgrade that need to be completed prior to Night Tube restarting.
From what I remember from my occasional visits to London, Northern Line night tube was only via Charing Cross and not Bank.
 

LU_timetabler

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2017
Messages
154
From what I remember from my occasional visits to London, Northern Line night tube was only via Charing Cross and not Bank.
It was indeed, but the line is still in the midst of complex duty rostering to ensure all drivers become familiar with the Battersea extension, and not just one depot's drivers. The Bank blockade plus this ongoing training make rostering Night Tube at the current time impracticable. Therefore Night Tube on the Northern will not happen until at least after the Bank blockade, though no definite date is yet known.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
4,089
Should be grateful it's opening up again - But 2 lines only. It's going to be packed !!

AND I wouldn't want to walk in the vicinity of any of the stations north of kings cross on the Victoria Line late at night

I suppose it makes the cab home a little cheaper.
What the heck is wrong, as someone who has lived in Islington since 1990, with the area around Highbury and Islington? I've been there at night time regularly and never seen any issues.
 

Mawkie

Member
Joined
17 Feb 2016
Messages
80
Seems like last night's relaunch of Night Tube wasn't the success it was supposed to be.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20211127-102438.jpg
    Screenshot_20211127-102438.jpg
    216.1 KB · Views: 97

Djriley27

Member
Joined
14 Jun 2013
Messages
11
Last night they had planned to run empty trains throughout the night (On the Central line at least, not sure about the Victoria line) but that didn't happen. Not sure what's gong to happen tonight
 

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,077
Location
West London
Last night they had planned to run empty trains throughout the night (On the Central line at least, not sure about the Victoria line) but that didn't happen.
Empty services were planned on both Lines, with the hope of starting passenger Night Tube services tonight


Night Tube services operated overnight 27-28/11 on the Central and Victoria Lines.
7 Victoria trains operating at 0330
6 trains at 0430.

2 Central trains operated an irregular Leytonstone-Loughton shuttle, providing an approximate 25min service, although at times this dropped to 1 train 60min.
4 trains operated White City-Hainault via Newbury Park, provided an irregular 30min service.
 
Last edited:

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,077
Location
West London
London Underground: Night Tube drivers to strike for six months https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59769476
London Underground drivers are to take Night Tube strike action every weekend for six months. RMT union members will walk out on 7 January and will do so every Friday and Saturday night through to June. in a row over rotas. At this stage the strikes will affect the Central and Victoria lines.
 

3rd rail land

Member
Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
473
Location
Where the 3rd rail powers the trains
Last edited:

Dstock7080

Established Member
Joined
17 Feb 2010
Messages
2,077
Location
West London
Sorry if I am being dense but wouldn't this length of strike action put a serious dent in drivers' take home pay or is it simply a case of drivers' making up the missed night shifts with daytime work instead?
Night Tube nights at disputed depots only come around every 22-24 weeks on conventional rotas.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
5,051
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
TfL's overall funding is under scrutiny amid C19 issues and more generally. The Night Tube's future will depend on its costs compared with night buses, and, indeed whether either can even be supported at all. The recovery period from C19 debt will be years not weeks.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
14,026
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
TfL's overall funding is under scrutiny amid C19 issues and more generally. The Night Tube's future will depend on its costs compared with night buses, and, indeed whether either can even be supported at all. The recovery period from C19 debt will be years not weeks.

The only thing is, Night Tube is of course a political invention, and specifically Johnson’s idea. It’s caused nothing but trouble since the day it was first proposed, but as it was Johnson’s idea then it can do no wrong. Now if it had been Khan’s idea then it would probably have been gone by now.
 
Last edited:

3rd rail land

Member
Joined
30 Jan 2019
Messages
473
Location
Where the 3rd rail powers the trains
TfL's overall funding is under scrutiny amid C19 issues and more generally. The Night Tube's future will depend on its costs compared with night buses, and, indeed whether either can even be supported at all. The recovery period from C19 debt will be years not weeks.
Surely if TFL decide they can no longer afford night tube and even night buses and axe them won't a not insignificant number of people simply not go out at night time causing further damage to London's night time economy? I can't imagine everyone who uses night time TFL services would be willing to fork out for a taxi given taxis are so much dearer, even if they share it with friends/colleagues.
 

Deepgreen

Established Member
Joined
12 Jun 2013
Messages
5,051
Location
Betchworth, Surrey
Surely if TFL decide they can no longer afford night tube and even night buses and axe them won't a not insignificant number of people simply not go out at night time causing further damage to London's night time economy? I can't imagine everyone who uses night time TFL services would be willing to fork out for a taxi given taxis are so much dearer, even if they share it with friends/colleagues.
Probably yes, but long-term impacts don't worry people like Johnson. That was exactly the problem with his populist attempt to bring back open platfom conductor buses - the longer-term costs and safety implications were brushed aside because he thought it would make him popular. They cost a ludicrous amount to buy but soon became like any other, far cheaper, bus in London - single-crewed with no open platform.
 

Busaholic

Veteran Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
11,077
Surely if TFL decide they can no longer afford night tube and even night buses and axe them won't a not insignificant number of people simply not go out at night time causing further damage to London's night time economy? I can't imagine everyone who uses night time TFL services would be willing to fork out for a taxi given taxis are so much dearer, even if they share it with friends/colleagues.
The night bus network (and night tram and trolleybus before that) was built up over decades with absolutely no dependence on a night time economy, simply because there was no such thing. It is vital even now for working people, usually in low paid unskilled jobs, to have transport to central London from their homes and back again throughout the night, preferably without a change of buses, and for a low flat fare. It is important that a geographically comprehensive night bus system is retained all week long, maybe without the weekend enhancements which have mostly disappeared anyway.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
15,665
Location
West of Andover
The only thing is, Night Tube is of course a political invention, and specifically Johnson’s idea. It’s caused nothing but trouble since the day it was first proposed, but as it was Johnson’s idea then it can do no wrong. Now if it had been Khan’s idea then it would probably have been gone by now.

And if Khan didn't support the idea, he could have just used the excuse of Covid to axe the concept of overnight tube all-together, maybe coming to an agreement to extend the operating hours of some of the underground lines a couple hours on Friday/Saturday nights (i.e. last train being at 2am).

But as he wanted to bring it back, says that he supports the concept of night tube.
 

87015

Established Member
Joined
3 Mar 2006
Messages
4,589
Location
GEML/WCML/SR
And if Khan didn't support the idea, he could have just used the excuse of Covid to axe the concept of overnight tube all-together, maybe coming to an agreement to extend the operating hours of some of the underground lines a couple hours on Friday/Saturday nights (i.e. last train being at 2am).

But as he wanted to bring it back, says that he supports the concept of night tube.
The return was brought about by a strongly backed petition on female safety, i don't think you can read much into general support of "the concept", they were driven to it, hence the U-Turn on bringing it back this year which wasn't previously planned.
 

choochoochoo

Member
Joined
6 Aug 2013
Messages
968
The return was brought about by a strongly backed petition on female safety, i don't think you can read much into general support of "the concept", they were driven to it, hence the U-Turn on bringing it back this year which wasn't previously planned.
So the night tube restart wasn't a condition of the Government's bailout ?
 

Top