When was smoking abolished on National Rail services?

[Mcr Warrior]

Moderator note: split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/no-smoking-seats.212898/

When were smoking carriages / compartments discontinued on the GB network?

Used to hate boarding inter city trains only to find that the only free and still available seats were in (what I called) the "smoky hole".

 

[ExRes]

When were smoking carriages / compartments discontinued on the GB network?

I think it was fully stubbed out in 2005

 

[Journeyman]

I think it was fully stubbed out in 2005

Caledonian Sleeper lounge cars were the last ever trains in the UK where smoking was permitted.

 

[Trackman]

I'd assume the flag is still in there for backwards compatibility reasons, given the National Reservations System (NRS) replaced the old BR Computer Reservations System (CRS) in late 2004, and itself is in the process of being replaced by the Rail Availability and Reservations Service (RARS2), yet the underlying vehicle data is presumably still obtained from TOPS/GEMINI.

IHG (Holiday Inn etc.) used to do it on their booking system not long since like select a smoking/non-smoking room. These days it doesn't as it susses out where you are.

Caledonian Sleeper lounge cars were the last ever trains in the UK where smoking was permitted.

Who was the first? as in a TOC.

 

[CyrusWuff]

One of the more confusing reservation issues is that the field for Forward, Back or Airline is apparently still used, with (I think) all seat now "A". Of course, it seems to sometimes fool people into thinking they are reserved in the coach of that letter.

Chiltern still uses Facing and Back for Business Zone reservations (as did Wrexham & Shropshire back in the day), and it's also still used for Sleeper berths (where it's "U" for Upper and "L" for Lower) even though they're individually numbered.

IHG (Holiday Inn etc.) used to do it on their booking system not long since like select a smoking/non-smoking room. These days it doesn't as it susses out where you are.

There's an exemption to the Health Act 2006 that permits hotels to continue to offer Smoking rooms, though the vast majority of chain hotels have gone 100% smoke-free anyway.

 

[Journeyman]

Who was the first? as in a TOC.

Quite a lot of services were 100% non-smoking by the end of the BR era.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I remember on one holiday flight the Smoking/No Smoking divide was just a random row of seats; my Dad smoked and we sat in the rear-most row of seats in the no-smoking section; the row immediately behind us was No Smoking; the people sat in it were not very impressed...

Don't quite follow. Your dad was smoking in a non-smoking row?

 

[pdeaves]

Don't quite follow. Your dad was smoking in a non-smoking row?

I think he meant "my Dad smoked and we sat in the rear-most row of seats in the smoking section; the row immediately behind us was No Smoking"

 

[johnnychips]

I think he meant "my Dad smoked and we sat in the rear-most row of seats in the smoking section; the row immediately behind us was No Smoking"

Yes, that was weird. I remember getting a BA flight from Brussels to Manchester in about 1990 in a 737 and there were just two smoking rows of twelve seats in the whole plane, but not even at the back.

The last trains with a smoking carriage I can remember were the ECML HSTs or 91s. It was always the front coach, but I can’t remember the year or which company was running it.

 

[route101]

Yes, that was weird. I remember getting a BA flight from Brussels to Manchester in about 1990 in a 737 and there were just two smoking rows of twelve seats in the whole plane, but not even at the back.

The last trains with a smoking carriage I can remember were the ECML HSTs or 91s. It was always the front coach, but I can’t remember the year or which company was running it.

Last time I remember a smoking coach was Coach B on the MK4S in 2004.

Did local services have smoking coaches?

Last time was Serbia or Hungary about ten years for smoking on train.

 

[HBP]

The last trains with a smoking carriage I can remember were the ECML HSTs or 91s. It was always the front coach, but I can’t remember the year or which company was running it.

GNER I believe. I seem to recall they banned smoking earlier in Scotland in about 2006 and GNER banned smoking from then and not 2007 as for the rest of England.

 

[edwin_m]

Did local services have smoking coaches?

If I recall correctly 156s and 158s had half a coach for smoking when new. I can also remember when the TGS came in a couple of years after the HSTs were introduced, my grandmother was very happy as they were all non-smoking and she hated the smoke drifing through in the other coaches that were half and half.

 

[pdeaves]

Last time I remember a smoking coach was Coach B on the MK4S in 2004.

I hated using non-smoking coach A because there was smoke drift from B (and you had to pass through B to get to/from the buffet), and at the other end, smoke tended to get through from the guard's area. There was no escape and I never understood the thought process in putting the areas in that order.

 

[WesternLancer]

I hated using non-smoking coach A because there was smoke drift from B (and you had to pass through B to get to/from the buffet), and at the other end, smoke tended to get through from the guard's area. There was no escape and I never understood the thought process in putting the areas in that order.

Totally agree - and wasn't A the quiet coach - so it was where I wanted to sit. I used to get annoyed by smokers who preferred to sit in a non smoking coach and then go and sit in the smoking coach every now and again to have a cig - so basically using up a desirable non smoking seat...

 

[Journeyman]

Totally agree - and wasn't A the quiet coach - so it was where I wanted to sit. I used to get annoyed by smokers who preferred to sit in a non smoking coach and then go and sit in the smoking coach every now and again to have a cig - so basically using up a desirable non smoking seat...

...and bringing the smell back with them.

 

[blakey1152]

You've brought back a lovely memory I had of my mum when on a flight to Athens. She was a chain smoker and even a few minutes without a cigarette was too much for her.
Sat in the smoking seats and when the light went out meaning you could smoke it made a "ding" noise. You've never seen a cigarette lit up faster in all your life - The ding probably hadn't finished dinging before she was smoking away

Blakey

 

[matt_world2004]

Wonder whether there are any corners of the world where 'smoking' on flights is still permitted?

Air China still permits smoking on flights. When the flight departs a UK airport. They are not allowed to smoke on board when the door is open (as it's subject to UK laws) soon as the door is closed it is permitted.


Air koryo as well.

 

[GB71]

GNER was definitely the last of the long distance regular InterCity operators I recall, and as I remember the then MD Chris Garnett was very reluctant to remove it - indeed I seem to recall the early "Mallard" refreshes there was a door put in coach M for the small proposed smoking area in 1st class and coach B may also have had the same - can't really recall now.

 

[Haywain]

the early "Mallard" refreshes there was a door put in coach M for the small proposed smoking area in 1st class

That was done to all Mallard sets and, although the doors have been removed, the screens between the seating bays remain.

 

[edwin_m]

Wasn't there also some extra ventilation provided to set up an airflow from the non-smoking into the smoking area?

 

[gchq]

 

[Mojo]

There was talk of turning them into "no electronic devices" signs, but it never quite happened.

I've seen on quite a few planes where the 'No smoking' light was a mobile phone symbol, and also one plane but can't remember which one that had three lights. I'm sure one was also used to indicate when the system on board was set up for Wifi and mobile phone calls; can't remember if the light went on or off to indicate that.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Wasn't there also some extra ventilation provided to set up an airflow from the non-smoking into the smoking area?

On some carriage stock, the airflow often seemed to be in the opposite direction, i.e. from the smoking area into the non-smoking, think it depended on the direction of travel.

 

[WesternLancer]

GNER was definitely the last of the long distance regular InterCity operators I recall, and as I remember the then MD Chris Garnett was very reluctant to remove it

Was this because his sister, Virginal Bottomley, was Sec of State for Health around that time?

 

[Wallsendmag]

Was this because his sister, Virginal Bottomley, was Sec of State for Health around that time?

The trip into Scotland was it's final nail as Scotland banned smoking before England.

 

[edwin_m]

On some carriage stock, the airflow often seemed to be in the opposite direction, i.e. from the smoking area into the non-smoking, think it depended on the direction of travel.

Yes, the rather desultory screens half way down a Mk3 coach were pretty much useless at preventing smoke drift. Later on, when someone twigged that making whole vehicles smoking or non-smoking was a better idea, they still tolerated people smoking in the vestibules (despite at least one fire when a cigarette dropped down the gap and lodged in the gangway), who would inevitably step on the pressure mat to open the door.

 

[thedbdiboy]

Of the ex-SR TOCs, SWT had smoking areas well beyond the time that Connex did - until at least the early 2000s

 

[Bertie the bus]

I think SWT were the last TOC to ban it in 2005 and it seemed the only reason they did ban it was due to the introduction of air-con 450s. They were quite happy to let smoking continue until the end of slam door stock and, as a smoker at the time, I was fortunate to commute on slam door stock right up until the end.

 

[Darandio]

GNER was definitely the last of the long distance regular InterCity operators I recall, and as I remember the then MD Chris Garnett was very reluctant to remove it - indeed I seem to recall the early "Mallard" refreshes there was a door put in coach M for the small proposed smoking area in 1st class and coach B may also have had the same - can't really recall now.

And as a smoker at the time it was a nightmare, it was often the most crowded coach on the train as fellow smokers descended from all other parts of the train to light up!

 

[Bald Rick]

That was done to all Mallard sets and, although the doors have been removed, the screens between the seating bays remain.

I have a feeling that the ban in Scotland came in before the last sets were done. It was pretty obvious it was coming to England, and it seemed such a waste of money !